Lester Hometown Discount

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I had mentioned that I didn't think Lester was all about the money. Good to see the leader of our staff, along with Pedey, setting a good example of how it should be. Lester takes being happy, comfortable and still very well off to stay in Boston. 18-20M per maybe? 5 years.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I suspect that his battle with cancer had something to do with his perspective. Facing death has a way of putting the real value of money in its proper place in life. I think he will get a deal with the Sox sooner rather than later, probably in the neighborhood you stated.

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe even slightly higher, but you can bet it will go at least 5-6 years. fans gotta remember how much value he has already given us so far for our money. We can, and should offer a fair amount. I'd even go in the neighborhood of 6/120MM. If they do go 7 yrs, the annual salary might go down. either way, he's going to be about 20MM per. That's fair IMO.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that a good contract for both sides is $18M for 5 years. To me, thats what he is worth. He would make more on the open market, but this is not the open market, and I do not like long term expensive contracts. They generally are not worth it.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I had mentioned that I didn't think Lester was all about the money. Good to see the leader of our staff, along with Pedey, setting a good example of how it should be. Lester takes being happy, comfortable and still very well off to stay in Boston. 18-20M per maybe? 5 years.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I suspect that his battle with cancer had something to do with his perspective. Facing death has a way of putting the real value of money in its proper place in life. I think he will get a deal with the Sox sooner rather than later, probably in the neighborhood you stated.

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe even slightly higher, but you can bet it will go at least 5-6 years. fans gotta remember how much value he has already given us so far for our money. We can, and should offer a fair amount. I'd even go in the neighborhood of 6/120MM. If they do go 7 yrs, the annual salary might go down. either way, he's going to be about 20MM per. That's fair IMO.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that a good contract for both sides is $18M for 5 years. To me, thats what he is worth. He would make more on the open market, but this is not the open market, and I do not like long term expensive contracts. They generally are not worth it.

    [/QUOTE]

    My only thing I differ with is the years with only 18MM. If he goes 18MM, I think he will get more than 5 years. Either way, they should lock him up now if they can and while he'sstill feeling good about winning another championship :)

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount


    Scott Lauber @ScottLauber Follow

    Lester: "I want to win. If it means taking a Pedroia deal where you stay for less money to be happy and win every year, let's do it" #RedSox

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Pedroia has more than enough money for the rest of his life and the lives of his kids.  Ellsbury is getting more, but he doesn't really need more to live a very comfortable life.  The exta money only pays for extravagance.

    I disagree. Society is littered with sports multi-millionares going broke. I don't see pedey as the irresponsible type, but I thought the same about Schilling.

    Secondly, the extra money could go to the children of the children of your children or to a charity or your choice. It doesn't have to go to "extravagence".

    Finally, I am happy Lester is feeling like Pedey, but I'd never blame a player for wanting as much as possible. I know I'd love to have a few extra million lying around to be able to help those in need around me.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Did anyone here expect Lester to say anything less than he wants to play his entire career in Boston? This organization has stayed by his side through thick and thin. So for him to say what he said doesn't surprise me in the least. The most recent trader was nothing but a whiner, and gold digger! As for Lester, if he drills Ellsbury the first time he faces him I'd give him whatever he wants. In either case they will work out a deal that's equitable for both parties. they won't get it done before the second week of the regular season, so they can avoid cap restrictions.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Good. 4-70 is a 5 year commitment and would make him the highest paid player on the team.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Did anyone here expect Lester to say anything less than he wants to play his entire career in Boston? This organization has stayed by his side through thick and thin. So for him to say what he said doesn't surprise me in the least. The most recent trader was nothing but a whiner, and gold digger! As for Lester, if he drills Ellsbury the first time he faces him I'd give him whatever he wants. In either case they will work out a deal that's equitable for both parties. they won't get it done before the second week of the regular season, so they can avoid cap restrictions.

    [/QUOTE]


    Especially with Farrell, back in the fold

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Negotiations begin with a low of $85/5. That's what Beckett and Lackey got; offering Lester any less would be insulting.

    But the real comperable is Wainwright's $97/5 and Hamels' $120/6. Lester falls right in that class of pitcher. Hamels was a bit younger, so five years with the same AAV would be approprate. 

    But I'd like to see them get creative. Give him $100/5, and then, if he meets certain benchmarks, have the contract convert into an automatic annual renewal, with a player opt-out. For example, if he starts 25+ games with an ERA below 4.5 in year 5, then year six vests at $18mm. If in year six, he meets the same benchmarks, then a year seven vests. And so on. With an opt-out, if he has a stellar year he can leverage it into a better salary. Because it's vesting, if he declines or is injured, the Sox can bow out gracefully. Win-win.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I had mentioned that I didn't think Lester was all about the money. Good to see the leader of our staff, along with Pedey, setting a good example of how it should be. Lester takes being happy, comfortable and still very well off to stay in Boston. 18-20M per maybe? 5 years.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I suspect that his battle with cancer had something to do with his perspective. Facing death has a way of putting the real value of money in its proper place in life. I think he will get a deal with the Sox sooner rather than later, probably in the neighborhood you stated.

    [/QUOTE]

    My recollection is that, when he was sick, we did something to allow his service time to continue to run.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I had mentioned that I didn't think Lester was all about the money. Good to see the leader of our staff, along with Pedey, setting a good example of how it should be. Lester takes being happy, comfortable and still very well off to stay in Boston. 18-20M per maybe? 5 years.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I suspect that his battle with cancer had something to do with his perspective. Facing death has a way of putting the real value of money in its proper place in life. I think he will get a deal with the Sox sooner rather than later, probably in the neighborhood you stated.

    [/QUOTE]

    My recollection is that, when he was sick, we did something to allow his service time to continue to run.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you are right. Good pull.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Negotiations begin with a low of $85/5. That's what Beckett and Lackey got; offering Lester any less would be insulting.

    But the real comperable is Wainwright's $97/5 and Hamels' $120/6. Lester falls right in that class of pitcher. Hamels was a bit younger, so five years with the same AAV would be approprate. 

    But I'd like to see them get creative. Give him $100/5, and then, if he meets certain benchmarks, have the contract convert into an automatic annual renewal, with a player opt-out. For example, if he starts 25+ games with an ERA below 4.5 in year 5, then year six vests at $18mm. If in year six, he meets the same benchmarks, then a year seven vests. And so on. With an opt-out, if he has a stellar year he can leverage it into a better salary. Because it's vesting, if he declines or is injured, the Sox can bow out gracefully. Win-win.

    [/QUOTE]

    All 4 pitchers you mention were better then Lester is now when they signed. And if you are not willing to insult with an opening offer, you will never get a good deal.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Negotiations begin with a low of $85/5. That's what Beckett and Lackey got; offering Lester any less would be insulting.

    But the real comperable is Wainwright's $97/5 and Hamels' $120/6. Lester falls right in that class of pitcher. Hamels was a bit younger, so five years with the same AAV would be approprate. 

    But I'd like to see them get creative. Give him $100/5, and then, if he meets certain benchmarks, have the contract convert into an automatic annual renewal, with a player opt-out. For example, if he starts 25+ games with an ERA below 4.5 in year 5, then year six vests at $18mm. If in year six, he meets the same benchmarks, then a year seven vests. And so on. With an opt-out, if he has a stellar year he can leverage it into a better salary. Because it's vesting, if he declines or is injured, the Sox can bow out gracefully. Win-win.

    [/QUOTE]

    All 4 pitchers you mention were better then Lester is now when they signed. And if you are not willing to insult with an opening offer, you will never get a good deal.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm not sure getting a good deal is the goal here.  I think it's getting a harmonious settlement.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to BMav's comment:

    [quote] All 4 pitchers you mention were better then Lester is now when they signed. And if you are not willing to insult with an opening offer, you will never get a good deal. [/quote]

     

    Disagree. Here's the BrefWAR from each for the five years leading up to their contrct extensions:

    Hamels 4.1 4.3 1.9 5.4 6.6 Tot. 22.3 Avg. 4.5/year

     

    Beckett 3.5 2.7 6.5 3.3 5.1 21.1/4.22

     

    Lackey 4.2 4.7 6.2 3.5 1.8 20.4/4.08

     

    Lester 6.3 5.2 4.4 0.7 3 19.6/3.92

     

    Wainwright 2.6 6.2 6.3 0 1.1 16.2/4.05 (I gave Wainwright a pass for 2012 in his annual average; if you include his missed year, it's 3.24).

     

    I think Lester is roughly comperable to all four of those pitchers. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    He may discount them a million or so a year. But, with Ortiz nearing the end (maybe 2015?), it may be time to reload with the farm system.

    Owens may be ready and be the lefty to replace him. Renaudo may be ready, Webster may be ready and maybe Barnes also.

    I wouldn't spend $20M a year on Lester at age 31.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from djcbuffum. Show djcbuffum's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Something missed in all this is that if the Sox treat Lester right, it gives them more credibility when negotiating with other players. Not all players care what the management environment is like, but some do. Showing Lester a little love tells all of the players that "treat us right, and we've got your back." That might give the Sox a leg up next time they're negotiating with a guy like Napoli.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Of course I believe him.  Pedroia did the same thing, and Lester said he agreed with Pedroia.  Here are a few good reasons for going that route--

    1. Pedroia has more than enough money for the rest of his life and the lives of his kids.  Ellsbury is getting more, but he doesn't really need more to live a very comfortable life.  The exta money only pays for extravagance.

    2. Farrell, Nieves, Cherington, Henry, et al, make this a good team to stay with.  Good clubhouse with Gomes, et al.    These are mostly the same people who stuck with him through the cancer episode (thankfully an episode).   Good clubhouse atmosphere amonth the players.  Napoli likes it enough to make a quick deal to stay.  Peavy bought the duck boat. 

    3. Heckuva fan base.  Not me, of course, because I live in Springfield, VA.  But a heckuva fan base with an historic ballpark, sold out games, etc.

    4. Great city, at least to visit.  I was born here (Winthrop, a suburb of Boston), but left after 6 months so we could rejoin my dad.  A ton of history.  Boston Commons.  The Charles River.  Cape Cod.  New England.  Great schools.  High cost of living, but people with a lot less money manage to live decently. 

    5.  Pretty good team.  Three WS in the last 10 years, and most of the 2013 model are returning. 

    That said, I hope Lester gets a good deal if not an extravagant one.  He is the ace on one of the best pitching staffs in MLB, and he sure as heck delivered last year.  Not too shabby in 2007 either. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]Good response.....  Lester is a smart kid, h now puts the ball into Ben's lap.....  Big question, how many years ???    Interesting PAPI will be the odd man ou in this "calm" contract talk !!


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    With the price of pitching where it is now, a 5 year, 100 million extension would be at a discount.

    Greinke got 150 million and he's not significantly better than Lester.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Of course I believe him.  Pedroia did the same thing, and Lester said he agreed with Pedroia.  Here are a few good reasons for going that route--

    1. Pedroia has more than enough money for the rest of his life and the lives of his kids.  Ellsbury is getting more, but he doesn't really need more to live a very comfortable life.  The exta money only pays for extravagance.

    2. Farrell, Nieves, Cherington, Henry, et al, make this a good team to stay with.  Good clubhouse with Gomes, et al.    These are mostly the same people who stuck with him through the cancer episode (thankfully an episode).   Good clubhouse atmosphere amonth the players.  Napoli likes it enough to make a quick deal to stay.  Peavy bought the duck boat. 

    3. Heckuva fan base.  Not me, of course, because I live in Springfield, VA.  But a heckuva fan base with an historic ballpark, sold out games, etc.

    4. Great city, at least to visit.  I was born here (Winthrop, a suburb of Boston), but left after 6 months so we could rejoin my dad.  A ton of history.  Boston Commons.  The Charles River.  Cape Cod.  New England.  Great schools.  High cost of living, but people with a lot less money manage to live decently. 

    5.  Pretty good team.  Three WS in the last 10 years, and most of the 2013 model are returning. 

    That said, I hope Lester gets a good deal if not an extravagant one.  He is the ace on one of the best pitching staffs in MLB, and he sure as heck delivered last year.  Not too shabby in 2007 either. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]Good response.....  Lester is a smart kid, h now puts the ball into Ben's lap.....  Big question, how many years ???    Interesting PAPI will be the odd man ou in this "calm" contract talk !!


    [/QUOTE]


    It's OK Bill.  I'm sure Ben will give Papi, aka '3 Time Champion, WS MVP and arguably MVP for the last 100 years' a very fair contract.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    With the price of pitching where it is now, a 5 year, 100 million extension would be at a discount.

    Greinke got 150 million and he's not significantly better than Lester.

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed.  I think Ben should go 5 years and $110-115mil.  To me that's fair.  Anything over 5 year may be a reach unless he wants a lower AAV.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He may discount them a million or so a year. But, with Ortiz nearing the end (maybe 2015?), it may be time to reload with the farm system.

    Owens may be ready and be the lefty to replace him. Renaudo may be ready, Webster may be ready and maybe Barnes also.

    I wouldn't spend $20M a year on Lester at age 31.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    1-Pitchers age differently, so 31 is not quite old for him as it would be for Ellsbury, for example.  I agree that it impacts the length of the contract, but he's almost never missed a start.

    2-If this was a position player, and we had a good prospect to replace him, I'd go with the prospect.  But we need 5 SPs.  Without Lester, our rotation in 2015 is-

    • Buchholz
    • Lackey
    • Doubront
    • Workman
    • Barnes

    That's okay but hardly inspiring.

    3-I'm not a fan of Webster, but even including him, half our SP prospects will likely not develop.  I doubt there will be any overlap of talent.

    4-Even if our farm continues to develop good pitchers, how many are playoff pitchers?  Lester has a 2.11 playoff ERA, and is 3-0 with a 0.43 in the WS.  It makes a difference having guys that have pitched on the big stage before.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Good response.....  Lester is a smart kid, h now puts the ball into Ben's lap.....  Big question, how many years ???    Interesting PAPI will be the odd man ou in this "calm" contract talk !!

    I'll hate myself for asking this, but what does Papi have to do with Lester?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good response.....  Lester is a smart kid, h now puts the ball into Ben's lap.....  Big question, how many years ???    Interesting PAPI will be the odd man ou in this "calm" contract talk !!

    I'll hate myself for asking this, but what does Papi have to do with Lester?

    [/QUOTE]


    ......I hate you for asking that.....   Wink

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    Reality is if Lester leaves you will have to spend money to replace his value.  If he is willing to take a discount then he represents the best option for us.  Anyone on the market is going to cost more

    At this point there it makes all the sense in the world to resign him. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Even if our farm continues to develop good pitchers, how many are playoff pitchers?  Lester has a 2.11 playoff ERA, and is 3-0 with a 0.43 in the WS.  It makes a difference having guys that have pitched on the big stage before.

    [/QUOTE]

    Aha, great point Joe.  One that doesn't get mentioned enough. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester Hometown Discount

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He may discount them a million or so a year. But, with Ortiz nearing the end (maybe 2015?), it may be time to reload with the farm system.

    Owens may be ready and be the lefty to replace him. Renaudo may be ready, Webster may be ready and maybe Barnes also.

    I wouldn't spend $20M a year on Lester at age 31.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    1-Pitchers age differently, so 31 is not quite old for him as it would be for Ellsbury, for example.  I agree that it impacts the length of the contract, but he's almost never missed a start.

    2-If this was a position player, and we had a good prospect to replace him, I'd go with the prospect.  But we need 5 SPs.  Without Lester, our rotation in 2015 is-

    • Buchholz
    • Lackey
    • Doubront
    • Workman
    • Barnes

    That's okay but hardly inspiring.

    3-I'm not a fan of Webster, but even including him, half our SP prospects will likely not develop.  I doubt there will be any overlap of talent.

    4-Even if our farm continues to develop good pitchers, how many are playoff pitchers?  Lester has a 2.11 playoff ERA, and is 3-0 with a 0.43 in the WS.  It makes a difference having guys that have pitched on the big stage before.

    [/QUOTE]

    Plus the only guys that really have the ceiling to replace Lester are Webster, Owens and Ball.  And none of them are a sure thing.  All three very well may end up good MLB pitchers but not as good as Lester.

     

     

     

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