Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying "I want to stay in Boston!"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with the "pink hat" epithet is that it just ends up getting used to denounce whatever position someone disagrees with, whether it makes sense in that context or not.

    You can argue whether we should or should not extend Jon Lester, or whether it would be worth it at this price but not at that price, but I hardly see how having a certain opinion on that subject makes a person a "pink hat."

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Lester SHOULD get extended. Just not at 20per. 

    To me, people convincing themselves that 20per is any kind of hometown discount is laughable. If they had given him 20 per, when he was 27, for 6 years...you could justify that. And, well...let me backtrack...I actually WOULD give Lester 20per year...for 2 years. But annual amount AND length? No. That's not what you do when you sign a guy early unless you're a team like TB or MIL who is legitimately small market and HAS to extend early like that. And then, those teams NEVER do it with a 30 year old because the risk is simply too high, and they rarely, if ever, pay off.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with the "pink hat" epithet is that it just ends up getting used to denounce whatever position someone disagrees with, whether it makes sense in that context or not.

    You can argue whether we should or should not extend Jon Lester, or whether it would be worth it at this price but not at that price, but I hardly see how having a certain opinion on that subject makes a person a "pink hat."

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Lester SHOULD get extended. Just not at 20per. 

    To me, people convincing themselves that 20per is any kind of hometown discount is laughable. If they had given him 20 per, when he was 27, for 6 years...you could justify that. And, well...let me backtrack...I actually WOULD give Lester 20per year...for 2 years. But annual amount AND length? No. That's not what you do when you sign a guy early unless you're a team like TB or MIL who is legitimately small market and HAS to extend early like that. And then, those teams NEVER do it with a 30 year old because the risk is simply too high, and they rarely, if ever, pay off.

    [/QUOTE]

    Due to the fact that very few top of the rotation starters ever reach free agency anymore, and more teams have money to spend than ever before, pitchers of Lester's caliber are going to get paid big dollars if they do test the market. It would be wise to lock up Lester now, which seems to be the plan.  The only way he gets less than 20 million per is if they sign him long term (6 years or more).  If they go 4 years or less, the average annual value will likely be around 23-25 per.  I'd be willing to bet on it.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with the "pink hat" epithet is that it just ends up getting used to denounce whatever position someone disagrees with, whether it makes sense in that context or not.

    You can argue whether we should or should not extend Jon Lester, or whether it would be worth it at this price but not at that price, but I hardly see how having a certain opinion on that subject makes a person a "pink hat."

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Lester SHOULD get extended. Just not at 20per. 

    To me, people convincing themselves that 20per is any kind of hometown discount is laughable. If they had given him 20 per, when he was 27, for 6 years...you could justify that. And, well...let me backtrack...I actually WOULD give Lester 20per year...for 2 years. But annual amount AND length? No. That's not what you do when you sign a guy early unless you're a team like TB or MIL who is legitimately small market and HAS to extend early like that. And then, those teams NEVER do it with a 30 year old because the risk is simply too high, and they rarely, if ever, pay off.

    [/QUOTE]

    Due to the fact that very few top of the rotation starters ever reach free agency anymore, and more teams have money to spend than ever before, pitchers of Lester's caliber are going to get paid big dollars if they do test the market. It would be wise to lock up Lester now, which seems to be the plan.  The only way he gets less than 20 million per is if they sign him long term (6 years or more).  If they go 4 years or less, the average annual value will likely be around 23-25 per.  I'd be willing to bet on it.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Even with longer years, given the current FA market for top-flight starters, 20 per has to be considered a relative bargain.  I think that IS the hometown discount.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What do you offer him?  what would it take right now?

    Bertrand says it would take about 6 yrs @ about 25M / yr.

     

    What would you offer right now to lock him up?

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd wait to see if he whines about ....

     

        Oh wait .... we wouldn't expect that from Jon.

     

        Papi says he want's to retire a Red Sox but there are haters that claim otherwise.

        Jon wants to stay a Red Sox ... but how can we believe him?  We don't believe Papi ... who wants a year's extension.

       And we are willing to playe Dodger Ball with Lester and offer him a ZG deal?

     

     

     

       Lester is worth a great deal to the team.  But just a season and a month ago, sure were a lot of "Fat Cat" calls and dump Lester calls ...

     

      What .... bravery and honesty among our fans ....

     

          consistent, eh?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What do you offer him?  what would it take right now?

    Bertrand says it would take about 6 yrs @ about 25M / yr.

     

    What would you offer right now to lock him up?

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd wait to see if he whines about ....

     

        Oh wait .... we wouldn't expect that from Jon.

     

        Papi says he want's to retire a Red Sox but there are haters that claim otherwise.

        Jon wants to stay a Red Sox ... but how can we believe him?  We don't believe Papi ... who wants a year's extension.

       And we are willing to playe Dodger Ball with Lester and offer him a ZG deal?

     

     

     

       Lester is worth a great deal to the team.  But just a season and a month ago, sure were a lot of "Fat Cat" calls and dump Lester calls ...

     

      What .... bravery and honesty among our fans ....

     

          consistent, eh?

    [/QUOTE]


    Not from me. I don't believe in dumping a player just because he goes through a period of time where he struggles. Especially when he's overcome cancer.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    I say he asks for 5 years 115 million. He'll get it if he leaves. Scherzer same age bet he asks for more. I would too, if this clown Tanaka can get 22 million, didn't pay his due in the Minors and Arbitration, and hasn't thrown 1 pitch, how can you blame these guys.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Hometown discount" doesn't involve giving a 30 year old pitcher 6 years at 20 per year... That's about the market rate, he's not 27 anymore. Why not the Lackey/Beckett deal...5/87.5?

    Don't set the bar stupidly high. Buccholz is going to have to be paid, before some of that long list of young arms (not all will pan out).

    [/QUOTE]


    Buch wont have to be paid until 2018, hes signed thru 2017 (options in 16'-17') at a very resonable rate.

    Lester has been an unbelievable bargain for the Sox. Hes earned his payday. The Sox were paying a Cy Young contending, 2 time allstar pitcher 3.75 and 5.75M when he earned those honors. We sometimes forget how little some of these players are getting paid the first 6 years of their MLB career compared to the production.

    To me, and a number of baseball people, think Lester is just the guy to take a chance on. 200+ IP every year, 30+ games every year, a smooth and easy delivery, and no injury issues at all. I say Lester will go into his mid 30's with great success and paying him 20M per for 5-6 years is worth that risk.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What do you offer him?  what would it take right now?

    Bertrand says it would take about 6 yrs @ about 25M / yr.

     

    What would you offer right now to lock him up?

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd wait to see if he whines about ....

     

        Oh wait .... we wouldn't expect that from Jon.

     

        Papi says he want's to retire a Red Sox but there are haters that claim otherwise.

        Jon wants to stay a Red Sox ... but how can we believe him?  We don't believe Papi ... who wants a year's extension.

       And we are willing to playe Dodger Ball with Lester and offer him a ZG deal?

     

     

     

       Lester is worth a great deal to the team.  But just a season and a month ago, sure were a lot of "Fat Cat" calls and dump Lester calls ...

     

      What .... bravery and honesty among our fans ....

     

          consistent, eh?

    [/QUOTE]

    Shhhhhhh. Don't ruin it. I loved reading this thread where posters were positive about keeping a player who has meant so much. The debate being about how much it will cost us is so refreshing coming from the usual who we should get rid of everyday. :)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What do you offer him?  what would it take right now?

    Bertrand says it would take about 6 yrs @ about 25M / yr.

     

    What would you offer right now to lock him up?

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd wait to see if he whines about ....

     

        Oh wait .... we wouldn't expect that from Jon.

     

        Papi says he want's to retire a Red Sox but there are haters that claim otherwise.

        Jon wants to stay a Red Sox ... but how can we believe him?  We don't believe Papi ... who wants a year's extension.

       And we are willing to playe Dodger Ball with Lester and offer him a ZG deal?

     

     

     

       Lester is worth a great deal to the team.  But just a season and a month ago, sure were a lot of "Fat Cat" calls and dump Lester calls ...

     

      What .... bravery and honesty among our fans ....

     

          consistent, eh?

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually....  I'm on record preemtively offering Papi 15M for the 2015 season.

     

    I'm also in favor of offering Lester 18+ \ yr 5+ years. I'd be offering 90M/5 & as high as 108M/6

     

    Love them both, but Papi realistically needs to remain year to year, with this extension likely being his last.  Then we pick him up as some type of mentot / hitting coach / you name it......

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2 things I noticed...

    BMav is too sensible, but has owned this thread.

    And, a recent WS title has made many fans r e t a r d e d and starry eyed.

    25 mil a year is the going rate? Someone is overstating both Lester's production and ability...oh, and discounting his age entirely.

    He's not as young, or good, as Kershaw.

    He hasn't been nearly as consistent as someone like Sabathia when he got paid.

    Oh, AND HE'S NOT A FA! Yet people want to pay him as such?

    Nevermind a salary structure. No, this will be awesome. Just pay Ortiz extra money, throw huge money at Lester, pay pay pay!

    Then what about Middlebrooks, Bradley, the laundry list of Ps, or BOEGARTS? Do you really want to destroy what Cherrington has been doing for 2-3 years, and go back to paying Beckett, Lackey, Crawford, Gonzalez, etc? I don't. I never even wanted to get there, and that drove me AWAY from this team. Look at the team just LAST YEAR and you should be able to see the flaws in that. If not...I guess I'm arguing with myself. I've not been shy with my opinion that Red Sox nation has largely turned into a fanbase of 'pink hats'. Yes, I used that term, and if you can actually remember Fenway without them, you probably understand what the term means, though I'm sure an argument will follow...as that term really offends some people.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not nearly far enough....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    Question for everyone:  Is Lester's agent Scott Boras?  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Question for everyone:  Is Lester's agent Scott Boras?  

    [/QUOTE]


    John Yates, but I had to google.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Question for everyone:  Is Lester's agent Scott Boras?  

    [/QUOTE]


    John Yates, but I had to google.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you Steven11.   Laughing

    Wow, one of the few great players who's agent is not Scott Boras.   LOL

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2 things I noticed...

    BMav is too sensible, but has owned this thread.

    And, a recent WS title has made many fans r e t a r d e d and starry eyed.

    25 mil a year is the going rate? Someone is overstating both Lester's production and ability...oh, and discounting his age entirely.

    He's not as young, or good, as Kershaw.

    He hasn't been nearly as consistent as someone like Sabathia when he got paid.

    Oh, AND HE'S NOT A FA! Yet people want to pay him as such?

    Nevermind a salary structure. No, this will be awesome. Just pay Ortiz extra money, throw huge money at Lester, pay pay pay!

    Then what about Middlebrooks, Bradley, the laundry list of Ps, or BOEGARTS? Do you really want to destroy what Cherrington has been doing for 2-3 years, and go back to paying Beckett, Lackey, Crawford, Gonzalez, etc? I don't. I never even wanted to get there, and that drove me AWAY from this team. Look at the team just LAST YEAR and you should be able to see the flaws in that. If not...I guess I'm arguing with myself. I've not been shy with my opinion that Red Sox nation has largely turned into a fanbase of 'pink hats'. Yes, I used that term, and if you can actually remember Fenway without them, you probably understand what the term means, though I'm sure an argument will follow...as that term really offends some people.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not nearly far enough....

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey! Johnny Should've Nevercame! Way to keep up with the past few posts!

    You're probably still getting over the embarassment of other threads. I understand. I'll come back and check for a response in 24-48 hours to give you some time.

    I just hope you really didn't go through my posts trying to find one line you had a semi-clever response to...the facts suggest otherwise, but I can't be sure.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    More crickets!

    Seems more people are interested in throwing insults and never backing them up rather than discussing any of the unpopular opinions I have.

    Mature.

    Don't expect the high road here, I'm disgusted with quite a few of the clowns polluting this once-great forum.

    You say something, expect to be held to it.

    I've backed up anything I ever said...and people can't deal with it.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    More crickets!

    Seems more people are interested in throwing insults and never backing them up rather than discussing any of the unpopular opinions I have.

    Mature.

    Don't expect the high road here, I'm disgusted with quite a few of the clowns polluting this once-great forum.

    You say something, expect to be held to it.

    I've backed up anything I ever said...and people can't deal with it.

     




    You talk about throwing insults..... then you toss in clowns, and maturity.

    Good job.

    NEXT.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2 things I noticed...

    BMav is too sensible, but has owned this thread.

    And, a recent WS title has made many fans r e t a r d e d and starry eyed.

    25 mil a year is the going rate? Someone is overstating both Lester's production and ability...oh, and discounting his age entirely.

    He's not as young, or good, as Kershaw.

    He hasn't been nearly as consistent as someone like Sabathia when he got paid.

    Oh, AND HE'S NOT A FA! Yet people want to pay him as such?

    Nevermind a salary structure. No, this will be awesome. Just pay Ortiz extra money, throw huge money at Lester, pay pay pay!

    Then what about Middlebrooks, Bradley, the laundry list of Ps, or BOEGARTS? Do you really want to destroy what Cherrington has been doing for 2-3 years, and go back to paying Beckett, Lackey, Crawford, Gonzalez, etc? I don't. I never even wanted to get there, and that drove me AWAY from this team. Look at the team just LAST YEAR and you should be able to see the flaws in that. If not...I guess I'm arguing with myself. I've not been shy with my opinion that Red Sox nation has largely turned into a fanbase of 'pink hats'. Yes, I used that term, and if you can actually remember Fenway without them, you probably understand what the term means, though I'm sure an argument will follow...as that term really offends some people.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not nearly far enough....

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey! Johnny Should've Nevercame! Way to keep up with the past few posts!

    You're probably still getting over the embarassment of other threads. I understand. I'll come back and check for a response in 24-48 hours to give you some time.

    I just hope you really didn't go through my posts trying to find one line you had a semi-clever response to...the facts suggest otherwise, but I can't be sure.

    [/QUOTE]


    I give your posts the amount of consideration they deserve, the minimum.

    Wordy doesn't equate to insightful.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Lester talking up the Hometown Discount, saying

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2 things I noticed...

    BMav is too sensible, but has owned this thread.

    And, a recent WS title has made many fans r e t a r d e d and starry eyed.

    25 mil a year is the going rate? Someone is overstating both Lester's production and ability...oh, and discounting his age entirely.

    He's not as young, or good, as Kershaw.

    He hasn't been nearly as consistent as someone like Sabathia when he got paid.

    Oh, AND HE'S NOT A FA! Yet people want to pay him as such?

    Nevermind a salary structure. No, this will be awesome. Just pay Ortiz extra money, throw huge money at Lester, pay pay pay!

    Then what about Middlebrooks, Bradley, the laundry list of Ps, or BOEGARTS? Do you really want to destroy what Cherrington has been doing for 2-3 years, and go back to paying Beckett, Lackey, Crawford, Gonzalez, etc? I don't. I never even wanted to get there, and that drove me AWAY from this team. Look at the team just LAST YEAR and you should be able to see the flaws in that. If not...I guess I'm arguing with myself. I've not been shy with my opinion that Red Sox nation has largely turned into a fanbase of 'pink hats'. Yes, I used that term, and if you can actually remember Fenway without them, you probably understand what the term means, though I'm sure an argument will follow...as that term really offends some people.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not nearly far enough....

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey! Johnny Should've Nevercame! Way to keep up with the past few posts!

    You're probably still getting over the embarassment of other threads. I understand. I'll come back and check for a response in 24-48 hours to give you some time.

    I just hope you really didn't go through my posts trying to find one line you had a semi-clever response to...the facts suggest otherwise, but I can't be sure.

    [/QUOTE]


    I give your posts the amount of consideration they deserve, the minimum.

    Wordy doesn't equate to insightful.

    [/QUOTE]

    It doesn't surprise me. Your reading comprehension probably limits your ability to take in too many words at once without needing a nap.

    I never said wordy equates insightful, so I'm not sure what your point is. I DID comment on someone with their twitter approved <140 character responses...was that you? My point was he liked to do hit-and-run insults, and offer nothing on topic. 

    I threw an opinion out there...one with admittedly a juvenile opening that was a general insult to anyone who felt it was directed their way...I guess you were one of those.

    I didn't need that line, I should have omitted it. However, you could, I don't know...consider maybe 90% of the post, and not the 10% you find offensive. Also, your little few words posts, such as the direct insult at me...speak more about you. I still have yet to notice you even try to mention anything about any topic...you simply insult people. You truly are the bottom of the barrel, so not getting consideration from you is actually a compliment. Thank you.

     

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