Lester traded to A's

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Cespeds can barely hit .260 and doesn't even get on base at a .300 clip. 

    He's got Power and decent defense and will be a free agent after 2015.

    He also doesn't hit LHP as well as Gomes did, and he doesn't hit RHP as well as Nava does.

    Assuming Boston COULD hypothetically continue to have used the Gomes/Nava platoon properly in LF, they just downgraded in LF.

    Perhaps the Monster pumps up Cespdeds stats a bit, and he does bring better defense to LF, and he also brings speed.

    So I will reserve final judgement for later, but don't act like this is a slam dunk deal that significantly makes us better just because the dude won a HR derby.

    WMB could probably win a HR derby.  Occasional power doesn't make a guy a great hitter, it makes him a decent hitter.  Great power when a guy can walk and/or hit is a great hitter.

    Hit tool and approach can be the difference between Will Middlebrooks and David Ortiz.

    Cespedes has great power, but he doesn't have a great hit tool or a solid approach at the plate.

    this trade isn't as good as some think. 



    Not seeing Gomes' name in the starting line-up already brightens my day.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    Here is now our new Jonny Gomes compares to our old Jonny Gomes:

    Cespedes is at .275/.844 vs LHP, Gomes: .279/.875

    Cespedes vs RHP: .257/.765, Gomes: .222/.722

    At Fenway Gomes is hitting .242/.744, Cespedes: .250/.683

    These numbers look very similar except that Cespedes hits RHP a bit better and Gomes hits LHP a bit better. Looks to me like we traded Gomes and Lester for a new younger Gomes. Wonderful.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    The way I see this is we got something for nothing.

    Scenario A: Lester stays with the Sox until the end of the season. The Sox offer a QO, Lester either re-signs with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't and we get a draft pick.

    Scenario B: Lester traded to the A's. The Sox ger Cespedes and a draft pick. Lester goes to FA because the A's won't sign him. He either re-signs with the Sox with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't. We still get the draft pick either way.

    The only question out there is whether there was a better deal available that the Sox could have had with another team. Assuming this was the best return, then there's absolutely no way to fault the FO for making this move.



    Can we please stop with the make believe 'hometown discount.'




    yeah for me it's not so much about the "hometown discount" item but rather when Lester was quoted as saying "you'll have to rip this Boston jersey off my back!"......even for a "mere" $70 million dollars you would think he would had stayed if he was willing to go to War with anyone who dared try to take his Red Sox jersey off of him. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    How much the Sox will buy a SP at 120 million for 5 years in the next 2 seasons...but the guy will not shore up to be as successful as Jon Lester.



    What makes you so sure Lester would have signed a 5/120? Please don't come back with 'hometown discount.' Lester's looking for 6/150, and some team out there will be stupid enough to give it to him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    It's not a complete sweet deal for the A's because even with Jon pitching a good game giving up 1-2 runs, 3-4 hits, without Cespedes they too are giving up a possible 1-2 runs on offense.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    My only concern with this trade is this.  Cespedes doesn't hit RHP very well at all, although he does hit RHP a tad bit better than Gomes, but he doesn't hit LHP as well as Gomes.

    Honestly we would still be a better team at the end of the day if he platooned with Nava, who hits RHP better.  Cespedes is just under contract for one more year than Gomes.

    We effectively traded Lester for a Gomes with a bit more speed, slightly better platoon splits, and a competitive lottery balance pick.  

    I'd give this trade a C+



    You are comparing Gomes to Cespedes? Please.



    I'm looking at Cespeds VS. LHP, Nava hits RHP better than Cespeds and Gomes hits LHP better than Cespeds.

    Go look up their splits and do some homework.

    ....please my A@@




    Hugh, I'm also seeing Nava/Gomes with 15 doubles and 8 HRs, Cespedes has 26 doubles and 17 HRs (with 3 triples thrown in).  The Red Sox needed somebody with some power and this appears to fit the bill.  It will be interesting to see how he hits in Fenway on a full-time basis.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    The way I see this is we got something for nothing.

    Scenario A: Lester stays with the Sox until the end of the season. The Sox offer a QO, Lester either re-signs with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't and we get a draft pick.

    Scenario B: Lester traded to the A's. The Sox ger Cespedes and a draft pick. Lester goes to FA because the A's won't sign him. He either re-signs with the Sox with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't. We still get the draft pick either way.

    The only question out there is whether there was a better deal available that the Sox could have had with another team. Assuming this was the best return, then there's absolutely no way to fault the FO for making this move.



    Can we please stop with the make believe 'hometown discount.'




    I think if the Sox offer him $150mm and the Yanks offer him $155mm, he'll come back to Boston. I think if the Sox offer him $150mm and the Yanks offer him $180mm, he's gone. He has said he'll offer a hometown discount, and I believe him. I just don't think the discount is very big.

     

     



    The Cubs, Dodgers, Braves, O's, Jays, Rangers, etc. all have plenty of money and motivation.  There will be plenty of suitors.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    ...THEY ACTUALLY GET POSTERS/FANS TO SAY, "WELL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE, HE WAS GONE." NO, HE WASN'T IN THAT POSITION. NO, HE WASN'T GONE...

    It's two separate arguments. 

    I agree, the Sox made a bad choice not to offer Lester a bigger contract, but the fact is, they have set parameters on what they offer 30+ year old players and their placement of value is less than what Lester wants. That's a fact. No poster here is going to change their formula by crying and moaning on thread after thread.

    There is no "choice" anymore. Lester is gone, and nothing any poster does will change that.

    Just because I advocated trading Lester over getting just a draft pick, does not mean I agreed with the formula Sox management used in Lester's case. I am not a Sox management apologist. They botched the negotiations and, in my opinion, made the wrong choice, but the fact is, the choice was made and is set in stone. You choose not to believe that. That's your right, but no amount of poster moaning is going to change Sox management's approach to setting player value. It is what it is- like it or not.

    Sox4ever

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    Little bit of power help, but not a great trade bhy any means.  We will miss Lester much more than we will appreciate Cespedes

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    The way I see this is we got something for nothing.

    Scenario A: Lester stays with the Sox until the end of the season. The Sox offer a QO, Lester either re-signs with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't and we get a draft pick.

    Scenario B: Lester traded to the A's. The Sox ger Cespedes and a draft pick. Lester goes to FA because the A's won't sign him. He either re-signs with the Sox with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't. We still get the draft pick either way.

    The only question out there is whether there was a better deal available that the Sox could have had with another team. Assuming this was the best return, then there's absolutely no way to fault the FO for making this move.



    Can we please stop with the make believe 'hometown discount.'




    yeah for me it's not so much about the "hometown discount" item but rather when Lester was quoted as saying "you'll have to rip this Boston jersey off my back!"......even for a "mere" $70 million dollars you would think he would had stayed if he was willing to go to War with anyone who dared try to take his Red Sox jersey off of him. 



    I sure hope that his qoute about coming back even if traded holds a lot of weight.  The guy loves it here.  I really hope this can be a reality.  Its not based on my wanting to believe it...its in Lesters words.  And he wont sign an extension so we have a chance to make my want to become true. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Cespeds can barely hit .260 and doesn't even get on base at a .300 clip. 

    He's got Power and decent defense and will be a free agent after 2015.

    He also doesn't hit LHP as well as Gomes did, and he doesn't hit RHP as well as Nava does.

    Assuming Boston COULD hypothetically continue to have used the Gomes/Nava platoon properly in LF, they just downgraded in LF.

    Perhaps the Monster pumps up Cespdeds stats a bit, and he does bring better defense to LF, and he also brings speed.

    So I will reserve final judgement for later, but don't act like this is a slam dunk deal that significantly makes us better just because the dude won a HR derby.

    WMB could probably win a HR derby.  Occasional power doesn't make a guy a great hitter, it makes him a decent hitter.  Great power when a guy can walk and/or hit is a great hitter.

    Hit tool and approach can be the difference between Will Middlebrooks and David Ortiz.

    Cespedes has great power, but he doesn't have a great hit tool or a solid approach at the plate.

    this trade isn't as good as some think. 



    Not seeing Gomes' name in the starting line-up already brightens my day.



    But you will see him in the lineup. Only the spelling is different. Cespedes is not an offensive improvement over Gomes. His numbers are very similar. 

    This trade stinks. It reaffirms my opinion that the FO has no idea what they are doing. If they could not have received a top line prospect it would have been better to keep Lester and Gomes and hope for the best.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    The way I see this is we got something for nothing.

    Scenario A: Lester stays with the Sox until the end of the season. The Sox offer a QO, Lester either re-signs with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't and we get a draft pick.

    Scenario B: Lester traded to the A's. The Sox ger Cespedes and a draft pick. Lester goes to FA because the A's won't sign him. He either re-signs with the Sox with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't. We still get the draft pick either way.

    The only question out there is whether there was a better deal available that the Sox could have had with another team. Assuming this was the best return, then there's absolutely no way to fault the FO for making this move.



    Can we please stop with the make believe 'hometown discount.'




    I think if the Sox offer him $150mm and the Yanks offer him $155mm, he'll come back to Boston. I think if the Sox offer him $150mm and the Yanks offer him $180mm, he's gone. He has said he'll offer a hometown discount, and I believe him. I just don't think the discount is very big.

     

     



    I'll play the game. How about the Yanks offer him 160 million? Do you think Jon's wife is gonna tell Jon to ignore the 10 million, because she'd rather live in Boston than Manhattan?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    They will only give a giant contract to A NON-SOX PLAYER. THAT'S IT.

    Since Crawford, they have not.

    They re-signed Napoli and Papi to $16M. That's the most they offered anyone since CC that I know of. Both were current Sox players.

    Sox4ever

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    Wonder what we can get for Cespedes?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    I'm as surprised and excited as anyone about Cespedes, but please stop with the idea that Lester will return. 

    He's gone.  Only a handful of teams will give him the money he wants, and the Sox aren't one of them.  They're not even close, and they won't go one dollar over their offer.

    On a side note, you can go ahead and put the A's in the WS this year, imo.  Good for Lester...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    It's not a complete sweet deal for the A's because even with Jon pitching a good game giving up 1-2 runs, 3-4 hits, without Cespedes they too are giving up a possible 1-2 runs on offense.



    In that park its pitching pitching and defense.  SF and StL do it with the same style and do great.  Before that Atlanta.  Pitching and defense wins.  A's look pretty solid in all of those aspects.  Combine some speed in the lineup and they are gonna be hard to beat.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from razcreation. Show razcreation's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier now

    Trying to confirm, but hearing Lester and Gomes might be moving for Cespedes

    !!!



    that is a good deal!!!  then lester could come back to Boston during the offseason!!




    As I posted yesterday, this Red Sox team has no direction at all. They move Xander from SS. Kid looks lost. Now they trade a lefty ace for a soon to be 30 year old who will be a free agent after 2015. Watch Sox give him the $$$ but not Lester. Now our rotation will suck. We all know Lester will be a NY Yankee in 2015. Red Sox are a mess. Thanks Lester for the memories. I am one pissed off Red Sox fan. 1918 all over again. A new curse is coming- the curse of stupidity.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

     

     

      Follow

    Jon HeymanVerified account
    ‏@JonHeymanCBS
    a's, all over lester, appears to have deal for him. #mysteryteam

     

     

     

     

     

     "Another day closer to the parade"



    I think/pretty sure anyway I like this deal especially if we could land a solid batting instructor to help him out.  He also has David to help so it should be a decent move.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    Sox get Cespedes..oh great, now i have a stinkin' Red Sox player on my fantasy team  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to soups' comment:

    I'm as surprised and excited as anyone about Cespedes, but please stop with the idea that Lester will return. 

    He's gone.  Only a handful of teams will give him the money he wants, and the Sox aren't one of them.  They're not even close, and they won't go one dollar over their offer.

    On a side note, you can go ahead and put the A's in the WS this year, imo.  Good for Lester...



    Yeah, the SOX actually did Lester a favor. Kind of the FO's way of saying "Thank you Jon for the great years you gave us; we're trading you to a contender. Stay in touch. Hugs and kisses."

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Sox are also getting a competitive balance pick. 

    Which is equivalent to a supplemental first round pick. 



    You can also Trade that, if you want.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Here is now our new Jonny Gomes compares to our old Jonny Gomes:

    Cespedes is at .275/.844 vs LHP, Gomes: .279/.875

    Cespedes vs RHP: .257/.765, Gomes: .222/.722

    At Fenway Gomes is hitting .242/.744, Cespedes: .250/.683

    These numbers look very similar except that Cespedes hits RHP a bit better and Gomes hits LHP a bit better. Looks to me like we traded Gomes and Lester for a new younger Gomes. Wonderful.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE



    Yes, except over the last several years Nava has batted against RHP the majority of the time in Left.

    Nava is a .291/.387/.428 hitter VS. RHP.

    A properly used Nava/Gomes platoon, equates to a better hitter than Cespeds.

    Cespedes does offer a defensive upgrade and more speed however, and more pop.  So it's not all negative. But he will hit less, walk less, and get on base much less than a Nava/Gomes platoon. 

    Perhaps the combined effects of all those points still makes Cespedes slightly better.......but remember we just traded Lester for him.  Did we really want to get "marginally better" (and only arguably at best) for trading away our ACE????

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    I keep asking all the knowledgable fans.. Sox made an offer of x and were told no by Lester or hid agent.  What was their request to the Sox..  Without that all the low balling comments are simply wrong.   Lester. Will be 31 and too long a deal is bad business.  ( I know the exceptions to that rule)

    People moan about salaries, cost of parking, tickets etc except when it's their team.

    i think 4 yrs@25 is the most to offer ..  Push comes to shove 5 yrs@ 22.

    i think any more than that is bad business.

    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    Beane smart, going for it. Pitching wins Championships.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester traded to A's

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

     

     

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

     

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

     

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

     

    The way I see this is we got something for nothing.

     

    Scenario A: Lester stays with the Sox until the end of the season. The Sox offer a QO, Lester either re-signs with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't and we get a draft pick.

     

    Scenario B: Lester traded to the A's. The Sox ger Cespedes and a draft pick. Lester goes to FA because the A's won't sign him. He either re-signs with the Sox with a small hometown discount, or he doesn't. We still get the draft pick either way.

     

    The only question out there is whether there was a better deal available that the Sox could have had with another team. Assuming this was the best return, then there's absolutely no way to fault the FO for making this move.

     

     



    Can we please stop with the make believe 'hometown discount.'

     

     




    I think if the Sox offer him $150mm and the Yanks offer him $155mm, he'll come back to Boston. I think if the Sox offer him $150mm and the Yanks offer him $180mm, he's gone. He has said he'll offer a hometown discount, and I believe him. I just don't think the discount is very big.

     

     

     

     

     



    I'll play the game. How about the Yanks offer him 160 million? Do you think Jon's wife is gonna tell Jon to ignore the 10 million, because she'd rather live in Boston than Manhattan?

     



    I don't know exactly how big the discount is. I couldn't venture a guess. But yes, some people would take a 6.25% lower salary to live in a particular community where they have established lives and work for a particular employer where they are happy. I don't know Jon Lester's wife and I can't read Jon Lester's mind, but they might be one of those couples.



    Even if somehow the Red Sox miraculously sign Lester this winter, we are still left with, essentially, the same team we had this year. Cespedes is not much better than Gomes. Further improvements would need to be made to make this team relevant again.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
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