Lester

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Lester


    Lester pitched well last night...no hitter into the 5th...gave up a couple of runs but they weren't hard hit balls...a bloop to right and the softest little double into the gap you will ever see. He lost it in the 8th inning...his pitch count was pretty low but I thought they should have had somebody getting ready because he hasn't pitched that deep into a game for a while. Far as some people go you should take what they say with a block of salt.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Everything I said was realistic. You said lets keep it real. I was, and usually do.

    Whos to say whether he would have K'd that batter before he left, or GIDP, or gave up a HR. He tweaked his hip and we will never know. Taz had to rush into the game and almost threw the 1st pitch into the 5th row, loading the bases. You have to put things in the correct context in baseball, not just go by the final numbers. Although I realize what they are, it doesnt tell the full story.

    There were plenty of positives to take from this game for Lester.



    I admit that I am a bottom line kind of person. Lester's bottom line from last night: four ER in 7 IP. Thats really not very good. He did look good for six innings, but he pitched seven. Now his ERA is 4.61. Last year his ERA was 4.82. After the first four excellent games he pitched for us this year his ERA is 5.53-over 13 starts. These numbers are GRIM. I want Lester to be good again too, but my wanting him to be good doesn't make him any good. He hasn't been any good with any consistency whatsoever since early Sept 2011-21 months. There is no evidence that he has turned it around either. As long as our expectations about Jon Lester are realistic-barely a #4 SP-we can discuss how adequate a pitcher he is in that capacity. More than that is wishful thinking.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to kannaman's comment:


    Lester pitched well last night...no hitter into the 5th...gave up a couple of runs but they weren't hard hit balls...a bloop to right and the softest little double into the gap you will ever see. He lost it in the 8th inning...his pitch count was pretty low but I thought they should have had somebody getting ready because he hasn't pitched that deep into a game for a while. Far as some people go you should take what they say with a block of salt.




    Yeah, you in particular. You are right: lets just cross off the runs charged to him in the seventh. Two runs in seven innings. Hoorah for Lester's re-emergence!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to kannaman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    Lester pitched well last night...no hitter into the 5th...gave up a couple of runs but they weren't hard hit balls...a bloop to right and the softest little double into the gap you will ever see. He lost it in the 8th inning...his pitch count was pretty low but I thought they should have had somebody getting ready because he hasn't pitched that deep into a game for a while. Far as some people go you should take what they say with a block of salt.

     




    Yeah, you in particular. You are right: lets just cross off the runs charged to him in the seventh. Two runs in seven innings. Hoorah for Lester's re-emergence!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    They were charged to him in the 8th, he got hurt and didn't finish the inning, the ball got by the catcher which put the second run at 3rd. You are not a bottom line of guy. Nothing close to it, you like to spin and pick until something fits in with your story. If you wanted to look crediable, you could have said yeah he pitched well but he is still having two out troubles and well see how he looks next time but you didn't and really tipped your hand.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to kannaman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Lester pitched well last night...no hitter into the 5th...gave up a couple of runs but they weren't hard hit balls...a bloop to right and the softest little double into the gap you will ever see. He lost it in the 8th inning...his pitch count was pretty low but I thought they should have had somebody getting ready because he hasn't pitched that deep into a game for a while. Far as some people go you should take what they say with a block of salt.

     




    Yeah, you in particular. You are right: lets just cross off the runs charged to him in the seventh. Two runs in seven innings. Hoorah for Lester's re-emergence!

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Well we could bring up misleading things like you do...the Sox are 7th in ERA...thats true...but who is ahead of them and by how much. In the ALE the Yanks are ahead....3.76 to 3.87 your talking about a difference of 8 runs over 81 games and not correcting for the way Fenway plays compared to Yankee stadium. The only other teams ahead of the Sox and in the playoff picture is Detroit, Texas and Oakland...the ERA for those teams is 3.80, 3.67 and 3.75...Detroit and Oakland play in pitchers parks....Texas gets lots of games vs Seattle and Houston both teams are very poor hitting wise. The Sox on the other hand play most of their games vs the ALE...all powerful offenses. The other two teams ahead of the Sox are the White Sox and Royals they aren't going anywhere this year. To put it bluntly your argument has no foundation when you put it into the reality of the games played and where they are played and against who. The Sox pitching is much closer to the top than where you try to put them at the bottom. I wouldn't trade pitching staffs with most of the teams that are ahead of the Sox because if you put them into the Sox's park and schedule they would not do as well IMHO.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to kannaman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     


    Lester pitched well last night...no hitter into the 5th...gave up a couple of runs but they weren't hard hit balls...a bloop to right and the softest little double into the gap you will ever see. He lost it in the 8th inning...his pitch count was pretty low but I thought they should have had somebody getting ready because he hasn't pitched that deep into a game for a while. Far as some people go you should take what they say with a block of salt.

     

     




    Yeah, you in particular. You are right: lets just cross off the runs charged to him in the seventh. Two runs in seven innings. Hoorah for Lester's re-emergence!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    They were charged to him in the 8th, he got hurt and didn't finish the inning, the ball got by the catcher which put the second run at 3rd. You are not a bottom line of guy. Nothing close to it, you like to spin and pick until something fits in with your story. If you wanted to look crediable, you could have said yeah he pitched well but he is still having two out troubles and well see how he looks next time but you didn't and really tipped your hand.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You are an excuse kind of guy; I am a bottom line kind of guy. To jog your memory use this link to view the box score of last night's game along with Lester's current ERA. That IS the bottom line.

    http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=330627102&teams=toronto-blue-jays-vs-boston-red-sox

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    Well we could bring up misleading things like you do...the Sox are 7th in ERA...thats true...but

    You could have stopped right there. The rest of your post is a litany of REASONS and excuses about why the current ERA position is what it is. Here are some more facts: Buchholtz, our top pitcher, is injured; Lester has, overall, pitched like crap after his first four games; Doubront and Dempster also have ERAs over 4; and the guy who was supposed to be our closer has failed, utterly, and the team has had to stretch the 12th ranked bullpen in the AL even further. Without better pitching we cannot compete for a ring this year. That IS the ultimate goal, right?

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Well we could bring up misleading things like you do...the Sox are 7th in ERA...thats true...but

    You could have stopped right there. The rest of your post is a litany of REASONS and excuses about why the current ERA position is what it is. Here are some more facts: Buchholtz, our top pitcher, is injured; Lester has, overall, pitched like crap after his first four games; Doubront and Dempster also have ERAs over 4; and the guy who was supposed to be our closer has failed, utterly, and the team has had to stretch the 12th ranked bullpen in the AL even further. Without better pitching we cannot compete for a ring this year. That IS the ultimate goal, right?

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE




    Yep and with all of the problems you listed the Sox are one Allen Webster start from being third in the league in ERA...if he hadn't given up all of those runs to Minnesota. The pitching has improved....Doubant has been pretty good since that relief appearance he made vs Minnesota. Dempster also has been pretty good the last 6 -7 starts. Lackey has been good all year and Lester has pitched better over the last 3 starts...the numbers don't look good but watching what he has been doing I would say he is improving. He manhandled the Jays who have been red hot for the last month if you didn't see that than I don't know what you were watching or did you just look at the boxscore.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to kannaman's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Well we could bring up misleading things like you do...the Sox are 7th in ERA...thats true...but

    You could have stopped right there. The rest of your post is a litany of REASONS and excuses about why the current ERA position is what it is. Here are some more facts: Buchholtz, our top pitcher, is injured; Lester has, overall, pitched like crap after his first four games; Doubront and Dempster also have ERAs over 4; and the guy who was supposed to be our closer has failed, utterly, and the team has had to stretch the 12th ranked bullpen in the AL even further. Without better pitching we cannot compete for a ring this year. That IS the ultimate goal, right?

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     




     

    Yep and with all of the problems you listed the Sox are one Allen Webster start from being third in the league in ERA...if he hadn't given up all of those runs to Minnesota. The pitching has improved....Doubant has been pretty good since that relief appearance he made vs Minnesota. Dempster also has been pretty good the last 6 -7 starts. Lackey has been good all year and Lester has pitched better over the last 3 starts...the numbers don't look good but watching what he has been doing I would say he is improving. He manhandled the Jays who have been red hot for the last month if you didn't see that than I don't know what you were watching or did you just look at the boxscore.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes Webster has given up a lot of runs. They all count towards our team ERA, just as starts from minor league pitchers called up by other clubs also count.

    As for "improved"-since when? In April we were fourth in the AL in ERA (3.58); in May we were seventh (4.00); and in June to date we are seventh (4.02). Where is the improvement?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Lester

    Some context please.  Yes, the Red Sox are 7th in ERA at 3.87, but the Rangers are second in ERA at 3.69.  That is not a large gap at all.  It's not just what place you're in, it's how far behind you are. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Some context please.  Yes, the Red Sox are 7th in ERA at 3.87, but the Rangers are second in ERA at 3.69.  That is not a large gap at all.  It's not just what place you're in, it's how far behind you are. 



    In any given year its unlikely that the second place team is way ahead of the seventh place team in ERA. For example, in 2010 there was just a .28 difference; in 2009 just a .21 difference; and in 2008 a .34 difference. Those differences are significant in terms of your chances for a ring. Seventh place is still a position where we are not completely out of the running-I am using the data I posted earlier where teams with below average pitching have won just 3 rings in 100 years but teams with below average offense have won ten times that many. But we are right on the cust of being below average, and Bucky's health and Lester's performance and Bailey's demotion all will serve to raise our ERA in the second half unless something changes.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes Webster has given up a lot of runs. They all count towards our team ERA, just as starts from minor league pitchers called up by other clubs also count.

    As for "improved"-since when? In April we were fourth in the AL in ERA (3.58); in May we were seventh (4.00); and in June to date we are seventh (4.02). Where is the improvement?

    [/QUOTE]

    It's an interesting thing though that at the end of the season they don't look at team ERA and use that to determine who the Division Leader is.  Instead they look at the Won/Lost record. 

    I frankly don't care if they finish last in BASEBALL in ERA.... as long as they win their division.  And at this moment, half way through the season, they're in the best position of any team in the AL East do do just that. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Everything I said was realistic. You said lets keep it real. I was, and usually do.

    Whos to say whether he would have K'd that batter before he left, or GIDP, or gave up a HR. He tweaked his hip and we will never know. Taz had to rush into the game and almost threw the 1st pitch into the 5th row, loading the bases. You have to put things in the correct context in baseball, not just go by the final numbers. Although I realize what they are, it doesnt tell the full story.

    There were plenty of positives to take from this game for Lester.

     



    I admit that I am a bottom line kind of person. Lester's bottom line from last night: four ER in 7 IP. Thats really not very good. He did look good for six innings, but he pitched seven. Now his ERA is 4.61. Last year his ERA was 4.82. After the first four excellent games he pitched for us this year his ERA is 5.53-over 13 starts. These numbers are GRIM. I want Lester to be good again too, but my wanting him to be good doesn't make him any good. He hasn't been any good with any consistency whatsoever since early Sept 2011-21 months. There is no evidence that he has turned it around either. As long as our expectations about Jon Lester are realistic-barely a #4 SP-we can discuss how adequate a pitcher he is in that capacity. More than that is wishful thinking.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally agree with you about the way he has pitched. There is absolutely no denying it, and I never have. But Im sure you understand my view of looking a little past the numbers, not ignoring them though. We also agree that a couple good starts mixed in with a lot of mediocre ones is certainly not cause for great excitement. I, as well as you and Im sure most people, need to see more consistency. As I said before, Im not ready to say hes "back", but I see enough in him to believe he can get back to being a good #2.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:



    Yes Webster has given up a lot of runs. They all count towards our team ERA, just as starts from minor league pitchers called up by other clubs also count.

    As for "improved"-since when? In April we were fourth in the AL in ERA (3.58); in May we were seventh (4.00); and in June to date we are seventh (4.02). Where is the improvement?

    [/QUOTE]

    It's an interesting thing though that at the end of the season they don't look at team ERA and use that to determine who the Division Leader is.  Instead they look at the Won/Lost record. 

    I frankly don't care if they finish last in BASEBALL in ERA.... as long as they win their division.  And at this moment, half way through the season, they're in the best position of any team in the AL East do do just that. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Its not even W-L record, really, is it? If you win 100 games and get bounced in round one is that a good season? I would be disappointed in that case and I think most fans would. I don't care if they finish last in ERA and win a ring anyway, but history tells us that since only three teams of over 100 have finished with below average ERAs have accomplished that.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Everything I said was realistic. You said lets keep it real. I was, and usually do.

    Whos to say whether he would have K'd that batter before he left, or GIDP, or gave up a HR. He tweaked his hip and we will never know. Taz had to rush into the game and almost threw the 1st pitch into the 5th row, loading the bases. You have to put things in the correct context in baseball, not just go by the final numbers. Although I realize what they are, it doesnt tell the full story.

    There were plenty of positives to take from this game for Lester.

     

     



    I admit that I am a bottom line kind of person. Lester's bottom line from last night: four ER in 7 IP. Thats really not very good. He did look good for six innings, but he pitched seven. Now his ERA is 4.61. Last year his ERA was 4.82. After the first four excellent games he pitched for us this year his ERA is 5.53-over 13 starts. These numbers are GRIM. I want Lester to be good again too, but my wanting him to be good doesn't make him any good. He hasn't been any good with any consistency whatsoever since early Sept 2011-21 months. There is no evidence that he has turned it around either. As long as our expectations about Jon Lester are realistic-barely a #4 SP-we can discuss how adequate a pitcher he is in that capacity. More than that is wishful thinking.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I totally agree with you about the way he has pitched. There is absolutely no denying it, and I never have. But Im sure you understand my view of looking a little past the numbers, not ignoring them though. We also agree that a couple good starts mixed in with a lot of mediocre ones is certainly not cause for great excitement. I, as well as you and Im sure most people, need to see more consistency. As I said before, Im not ready to say hes "back", but I see enough in him to believe he can get back to being a good #2.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I cannot prove that your opinion about his potential is wrong. You might be right. I can only prove where he is right now and where he was last year. I too have my opinion about his potential, but its just opinion.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to S5's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     



    Yes Webster has given up a lot of runs. They all count towards our team ERA, just as starts from minor league pitchers called up by other clubs also count.

     

     

    As for "improved"-since when? In April we were fourth in the AL in ERA (3.58); in May we were seventh (4.00); and in June to date we are seventh (4.02). Where is the improvement?

     



    It's an interesting thing though that at the end of the season they don't look at team ERA and use that to determine who the Division Leader is.  Instead they look at the Won/Lost record. 

     

    I frankly don't care if they finish last in BASEBALL in ERA.... as long as they win their division.  And at this moment, half way through the season, they're in the best position of any team in the AL East do do just that. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Its not even W-L record, really, is it? If you win 100 games and get bounced in round one is that a good season? I would be disappointed in that case and I think most fans would. I don't care if they finish last in ERA and win a ring anyway, but history tells us that since only three teams of over 100 have finished with below average ERAs have accomplished that.

    [/QUOTE]


    Its usually about whos hot going into september and the playoffs.

    2007 Colorado had a team ERA of 4.32, but got red hot in september and it got them all the way to the WS. Granted they lost to us in 4, but my point remains the same.

    That uyear, ours was 3.87

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:



    Its not even W-L record, really, is it? If you win 100 games and get bounced in round one is that a good season? I would be disappointed in that case and I think most fans would. I don't care if they finish last in ERA and win a ring anyway, but history tells us that since only three teams of over 100 have finished with below average ERAs have accomplished that.



    To repsond directly to your question, yes, I think 100 wins "is a good season".  And yes, if after winning 100 games the Sox got bounced I'd be disappointed, but in my eyes it would still be a good season, especially since most people here picked them to be ~.500.  Anyone who doesn't call 100 wins "a good season" has become a victim of that entitlement mentality we dislike the Yankees so much for. 

    You say you're a bottom line guy so here's what you know.  This team has the 7th best ERA during 81 games and they're 3 1/2 games up at the half-way mark.  If everything else remains equal throughout the second half of the season the Sox would finish with the 7th best ERA and win their division by 7 games. Bottom line. 

    Unless you think half a season or 1200 games is a "small sample size".  :-)

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Lets keep it real about Lester. While last night's outing was a much better effort than his most recent starts, he did surrender four ER in seven innings for an in game ERA of 5.14. His ERA actually went UP after yesterday's game and now is a lofty 4.61. Remember: ALL the runs he was charged with count. An ERA of 5.14 is more like a #5 SP or worse. He was better, but he was certainly not good yesterday.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE



    All you've done is focus on one outlier stat to confirm your own gloomy narrative. His ERA for this one game is more circumstantial and it's a superficial way of evaluating how he performed.  Here are some other facts that were not included in your evaluation if you can even call it that.  

    Fact: He pitched into the 8th inning, leaving the game after throwing only 94 pitches and getting injured. 

    Fact: He allowed five hits in seven innings and only one extra base hit, a double.  Three walks in seven innings is not outstanding, but he pitched only three balls in the final credited walk after he had left the game.  

    Fact: The Red Sox were leading 7 to 2 when he exited.  How a pitcher pitches and a manager manages is dictated by the game situation.  Lester wasn't pitching for the sole purpose of minimizing his ERA.  He was pitching to give his team a chance to win a ballgame. 

    Fact: While he's statistically accountable for his ERA in that game, it's the bullpen's job to minimize the damage afterwards.  If Tazawa had come in and allowed only one run, I think that would have been considered reasonable given the game situation and the fact that he was coming in cold after an injury.  Allowing the second runner to score following a wild pitch is more on Tazawa than Lester.

    Fact: The Jays are a hot hitting team playing in Fenway in summer with a lot at stake.  Holding them to 2 runs through 7 innings is good work as far as I'm concerned.  Even the team giving up 4 runs in 9 innings is good work and should get the job done, which is to win a ballgame, which the Red Sox most certainly did.

      Your "reality" really needs to be checked.  You're the type of fan who after the Red Sox had won the World Series in 2004 after an 86 year drought, instead of enjoying it, you would have dwelled on the fact that Pedro and Lowe weren't signed for the following season.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to kannaman's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     


    Lester pitched well last night...no hitter into the 5th...gave up a couple of runs but they weren't hard hit balls...a bloop to right and the softest little double into the gap you will ever see. He lost it in the 8th inning...his pitch count was pretty low but I thought they should have had somebody getting ready because he hasn't pitched that deep into a game for a while. Far as some people go you should take what they say with a block of salt.

     

     

     




    Yeah, you in particular. You are right: lets just cross off the runs charged to him in the seventh. Two runs in seven innings. Hoorah for Lester's re-emergence!

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    They were charged to him in the 8th, he got hurt and didn't finish the inning, the ball got by the catcher which put the second run at 3rd. You are not a bottom line of guy. Nothing close to it, you like to spin and pick until something fits in with your story. If you wanted to look crediable, you could have said yeah he pitched well but he is still having two out troubles and well see how he looks next time but you didn't and really tipped your hand.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You are an excuse kind of guy; I am a bottom line kind of guy. To jog your memory use this link to view the box score of last night's game along with Lester's current ERA. That IS the bottom line.

     

    http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=330627102&teams=toronto-blue-jays-vs-boston-red-sox

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That is so silly. Their are no excuses here. Until you are willing to admit he pitched well last night and pitched like your scared "number two". You need to be fair and reasonable you simply aren't. No one is results driven when you refer to "in game era". You need to try to be a little logical or you head to softy/bill territory.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Lets keep it real about Lester. While last night's outing was a much better effort than his most recent starts, he did surrender four ER in seven innings for an in game ERA of 5.14. His ERA actually went UP after yesterday's game and now is a lofty 4.61. Remember: ALL the runs he was charged with count. An ERA of 5.14 is more like a #5 SP or worse. He was better, but he was certainly not good yesterday.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     



    All you've done is focus on one outlier stat to confirm your own gloomy narrative. His ERA for this one game is more circumstantial and it's a superficial way of evaluating how he performed.  Here are some other facts that were not included in your evaluation if you can even call it that.  

     

    Fact: He pitched into the 8th inning, leaving the game after throwing only 94 pitches and getting injured. 

    Fact: He allowed five hits in seven innings and only one extra base hit, a double.  Three walks in seven innings is not outstanding, but he pitched only three balls in the final credited walk after he had left the game.  

    Fact: The Red Sox were leading 7 to 2 when he exited.  How a pitcher pitches and a manager manages is dictated by the game situation.  Lester wasn't pitching for the sole purpose of minimizing his ERA.  He was pitching to give his team a chance to win a ballgame. 

    Fact: While he's statistically accountable for his ERA in that game, it's the bullpen's job to minimize the damage afterwards.  If Tazawa had come in and allowed only one run, I think that would have been considered reasonable given the game situation and the fact that he was coming in cold after an injury.  Allowing the second runner to score following a wild pitch is more on Tazawa than Lester.

    Fact: The Jays are a hot hitting team playing in Fenway in summer with a lot at stake.  Holding them to 2 runs through 7 innings is good work as far as I'm concerned.  Even the team giving up 4 runs in 9 innings is good work and should get the job done, which is to win a ballgame, which the Red Sox most certainly did.

      Your "reality" really needs to be checked.  You're the type of fan who after the Red Sox had won the World Series in 2004 after an 86 year drought, instead of enjoying it, you would have dwelled on the fact that Pedro and Lowe weren't signed for the following season.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bottom line: he was charged with four ER in seven complete innings. Thats an ERA of 5.14, by was of perspective. I would not be too happy about a performance like that. Thats the reality. Anything else is called "wishful thinking".

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Lets keep it real about Lester. While last night's outing was a much better effort than his most recent starts, he did surrender four ER in seven innings for an in game ERA of 5.14. His ERA actually went UP after yesterday's game and now is a lofty 4.61. Remember: ALL the runs he was charged with count. An ERA of 5.14 is more like a #5 SP or worse. He was better, but he was certainly not good yesterday.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     

     



    All you've done is focus on one outlier stat to confirm your own gloomy narrative. His ERA for this one game is more circumstantial and it's a superficial way of evaluating how he performed.  Here are some other facts that were not included in your evaluation if you can even call it that.  

     

     

     

    Fact: He pitched into the 8th inning, leaving the game after throwing only 94 pitches and getting injured. 

    Fact: He allowed five hits in seven innings and only one extra base hit, a double.  Three walks in seven innings is not outstanding, but he pitched only three balls in the final credited walk after he had left the game.  

    Fact: The Red Sox were leading 7 to 2 when he exited.  How a pitcher pitches and a manager manages is dictated by the game situation.  Lester wasn't pitching for the sole purpose of minimizing his ERA.  He was pitching to give his team a chance to win a ballgame. 

    Fact: While he's statistically accountable for his ERA in that game, it's the bullpen's job to minimize the damage afterwards.  If Tazawa had come in and allowed only one run, I think that would have been considered reasonable given the game situation and the fact that he was coming in cold after an injury.  Allowing the second runner to score following a wild pitch is more on Tazawa than Lester.

    Fact: The Jays are a hot hitting team playing in Fenway in summer with a lot at stake.  Holding them to 2 runs through 7 innings is good work as far as I'm concerned.  Even the team giving up 4 runs in 9 innings is good work and should get the job done, which is to win a ballgame, which the Red Sox most certainly did.

      Your "reality" really needs to be checked.  You're the type of fan who after the Red Sox had won the World Series in 2004 after an 86 year drought, instead of enjoying it, you would have dwelled on the fact that Pedro and Lowe weren't signed for the following season.

     

     

     



    Bottom line: he was charged with four ER in seven complete innings. Thats an ERA of 5.14, by was of perspective. I would not be too happy about a performance like that. Thats the reality. Anything else is called "wishful thinking".

     

     

     



    Bottom line: he pitched well and the Red Sox won the game.  That's a team won loss record of 48 wins and 33 losses by way of perspective.  I would not be too worried about a performance like that (except for the injury, of course).  That's the reality. Anything else is called "delusional".

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    He has reported he is fine after slipping on the mound last night. But what I noticed about his delivery was confirmed in this article. He has made some adjustments and last night it looks like it worked. Baseball is a constant game of adjustments, especially for pitchers. Having to throw a ball 100+ times a game and repeat the exact same motion while throwing 4 different pitches is not easy. If the slightest thing is off, it can disrupt where the pitch goes, how it comes out of your hand, etc.

    Lester made an adjustment with his glove between starts. Looks like, at least last night, it worked.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/27/jon-lester-not-concerned-with-hip-injury-after-strong-outing/qhd2rmugUQgUW6hs2FG7IN/story.html

    If he can continue getting ahead of hitters and using his change up, which I didnt realize was such a good pitch for him, He should be good the rest of the way and get back on track.



    Somethings still not quite right with Jon.  I would love to see him placed on a conditioning program and drop a few pounds.  It may have no bearing but Jon seems a bit overweight and Clay too fragile.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    He has reported he is fine after slipping on the mound last night. But what I noticed about his delivery was confirmed in this article. He has made some adjustments and last night it looks like it worked. Baseball is a constant game of adjustments, especially for pitchers. Having to throw a ball 100+ times a game and repeat the exact same motion while throwing 4 different pitches is not easy. If the slightest thing is off, it can disrupt where the pitch goes, how it comes out of your hand, etc.

    Lester made an adjustment with his glove between starts. Looks like, at least last night, it worked.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/27/jon-lester-not-concerned-with-hip-injury-after-strong-outing/qhd2rmugUQgUW6hs2FG7IN/story.html

    If he can continue getting ahead of hitters and using his change up, which I didnt realize was such a good pitch for him, He should be good the rest of the way and get back on track.

     



    Somethings still not quite right with Jon.  I would love to see him placed on a conditioning program and drop a few pounds.  It may have no bearing but Jon seems a bit overweight and Clay too fragile.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    He looks the same as he does every year. Giving clay the tag of "fragile" isnt exactly fair in the sense that he just doesnt have the body type to withstand the stress of being an MLB pitcher. Its not like hes a big guy that has nagging injuries. That would be fragile. He works hard and does everything possible that he can. Hes just to thin to not expect issues. Its not easy to do what he does at this level, which is why most teams go for big guys to be starters. Their bodys can withstand it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Lets keep it real about Lester. While last night's outing was a much better effort than his most recent starts, he did surrender four ER in seven innings for an in game ERA of 5.14. His ERA actually went UP after yesterday's game and now is a lofty 4.61. Remember: ALL the runs he was charged with count. An ERA of 5.14 is more like a #5 SP or worse. He was better, but he was certainly not good yesterday.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     

     



    All you've done is focus on one outlier stat to confirm your own gloomy narrative. His ERA for this one game is more circumstantial and it's a superficial way of evaluating how he performed.  Here are some other facts that were not included in your evaluation if you can even call it that.  

     

     

     

    Fact: He pitched into the 8th inning, leaving the game after throwing only 94 pitches and getting injured. 

    Fact: He allowed five hits in seven innings and only one extra base hit, a double.  Three walks in seven innings is not outstanding, but he pitched only three balls in the final credited walk after he had left the game.  

    Fact: The Red Sox were leading 7 to 2 when he exited.  How a pitcher pitches and a manager manages is dictated by the game situation.  Lester wasn't pitching for the sole purpose of minimizing his ERA.  He was pitching to give his team a chance to win a ballgame. 

    Fact: While he's statistically accountable for his ERA in that game, it's the bullpen's job to minimize the damage afterwards.  If Tazawa had come in and allowed only one run, I think that would have been considered reasonable given the game situation and the fact that he was coming in cold after an injury.  Allowing the second runner to score following a wild pitch is more on Tazawa than Lester.

    Fact: The Jays are a hot hitting team playing in Fenway in summer with a lot at stake.  Holding them to 2 runs through 7 innings is good work as far as I'm concerned.  Even the team giving up 4 runs in 9 innings is good work and should get the job done, which is to win a ballgame, which the Red Sox most certainly did.

      Your "reality" really needs to be checked.  You're the type of fan who after the Red Sox had won the World Series in 2004 after an 86 year drought, instead of enjoying it, you would have dwelled on the fact that Pedro and Lowe weren't signed for the following season.

     

     

     



    Bottom line: he was charged with four ER in seven complete innings. Thats an ERA of 5.14, by was of perspective. I would not be too happy about a performance like that. Thats the reality. Anything else is called "wishful thinking".

     

     

     



    Bottom line: he pitched well and the Red Sox won the game.  That's a team won loss record of 48 wins and 33 losses by way of perspective.  I would not be too worried about a performance like that (except for the injury, of course).  That's the reality. Anything else is called "delusional".

     




    I am glad you are satisfied with his bottom line, four ER in seven full innings. For my part, thats not a good performance overall. He pitched very well for six innings and had a bad seventh. Unfortunately, the seventh inning counts too. Its a good thing the team scored seven runs for him. That will not always happen.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Lester

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Lets keep it real about Lester. While last night's outing was a much better effort than his most recent starts, he did surrender four ER in seven innings for an in game ERA of 5.14. His ERA actually went UP after yesterday's game and now is a lofty 4.61. Remember: ALL the runs he was charged with count. An ERA of 5.14 is more like a #5 SP or worse. He was better, but he was certainly not good yesterday.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     

     



    All you've done is focus on one outlier stat to confirm your own gloomy narrative. His ERA for this one game is more circumstantial and it's a superficial way of evaluating how he performed.  Here are some other facts that were not included in your evaluation if you can even call it that.  

     

     

     

    Fact: He pitched into the 8th inning, leaving the game after throwing only 94 pitches and getting injured. 

    Fact: He allowed five hits in seven innings and only one extra base hit, a double.  Three walks in seven innings is not outstanding, but he pitched only three balls in the final credited walk after he had left the game.  

    Fact: The Red Sox were leading 7 to 2 when he exited.  How a pitcher pitches and a manager manages is dictated by the game situation.  Lester wasn't pitching for the sole purpose of minimizing his ERA.  He was pitching to give his team a chance to win a ballgame. 

    Fact: While he's statistically accountable for his ERA in that game, it's the bullpen's job to minimize the damage afterwards.  If Tazawa had come in and allowed only one run, I think that would have been considered reasonable given the game situation and the fact that he was coming in cold after an injury.  Allowing the second runner to score following a wild pitch is more on Tazawa than Lester.

    Fact: The Jays are a hot hitting team playing in Fenway in summer with a lot at stake.  Holding them to 2 runs through 7 innings is good work as far as I'm concerned.  Even the team giving up 4 runs in 9 innings is good work and should get the job done, which is to win a ballgame, which the Red Sox most certainly did.

      Your "reality" really needs to be checked.  You're the type of fan who after the Red Sox had won the World Series in 2004 after an 86 year drought, instead of enjoying it, you would have dwelled on the fact that Pedro and Lowe weren't signed for the following season.

     

     

     



    Bottom line: he was charged with four ER in seven complete innings. Thats an ERA of 5.14, by was of perspective. I would not be too happy about a performance like that. Thats the reality. Anything else is called "wishful thinking".

     

     

     



    Bottom line: he pitched well and the Red Sox won the game.  That's a team won loss record of 48 wins and 33 losses by way of perspective.  I would not be too worried about a performance like that (except for the injury, of course).  That's the reality. Anything else is called "delusional".

     

     




    I am glad you are satisfied with his bottom line, four ER in seven full innings. For my part, thats not a good performance overall. He pitched very well for six innings and had a bad seventh. Unfortunately, the seventh inning counts too. Its a good thing the team scored seven runs for him. That will not always happen.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sadly, you are never satisfied with anything.  

     
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