Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    Whats your point Pat?  I said he was not that good and had flaws.  What I got was some great differences of opinions from many posters who provided lots of facts and opinions.  That is what the thread was for - read those posts and ignore mine if you want substance.  There is much substance in this thread.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....:
    [QUOTE]I've said it before (*cough* responding to Showalter *cough*) and I'll say it again, you can't fairly criticize a GM who runs a high-revenue team for having an imperfect record with FAs. It's a known fact that free agency is an ineffecient way to accumulate talent, but teams that wish to compete EVERY year (which is what high-revenue team owners demand from their GMs) need to sign imperfect players at times to fill holes to ensure they have high playoff chances on an annual basis. When the Sox won it all in 2004, do you think Theo really wanted to sign guys like Wells and Renteria? He had a veteran laden, somewhat overpriced team that (thanks to players it was losing to free agency) had a lot of holes and NO minor league talent to speak of. If the Sox were a low or mid revenue franchise, Theo would have bitten the bullet for a couple of years, used value signings to tide the major league team over, and set about rebuilding the minor league system. However, because ownership demanded a shot at a repeat, he signed a number of overpriced veterans (while being smart enough to let his own FAs go...without the draft pick compensation, it would have taken far longer to rebuild the minor league system, as the Yankees have learned the hard way), many of whom proved to not be worth the money. Such is the price of aiming for annual playoff appearances. People like to give the Rays credit for "developing" a lot of their "homegrown" players, but keep in mind that a lot of their talent comes from high first round picks that successful teams never had a shot at. Would Boston ever allow the Red Sox to go through 5+ years of last place finishes in order to turn into a completely "homegrown" team? And do you seriously think the Rays deserve credit for "developing" someone like Evan Longoria (a virtual sure thing who would have been successful for any franchise)? The current Ray ownership DOES deserve credit, not for the high draft pick players, but for how well they've filled in the rest of their roster will savvy signings. Signings that the Boston media would have a field day with (calling it things like a "bridge year"). As for whether Theo deserves credit as a quality GM, to sum up his success with the Nomar trade is the height of stupidity or bias. He took a franchise that had been in "win now" mode for a decade (leaving a shallow minor league system and a major league team of aging players, the worst type of assests for a GM), made the right moves over two years to make it a legitimate championship contender (and winner), and once he gave Boston the championship is yearned for he had the balls to let a number of popular players walk because he knew they would be overpaid and because he needed the draft pick compensation. Within THREE years, the team was full of high upside, cost controlled young players who either filled in the major league roster (Pedroia, Ellsbury, Bard, Buchholz, etc) or were used to acquire key pieces like Josh Beckett, AND that led to another championship! Once Theo succeeded in creating a fantastic minor league system, especially considering Boston's lack of top draft picks due to the team's success, he assured that the team was an annual playoff contender (good minor league system + high payroll = flexibility to fill your roster every year and always compete). When it came to signing players like Lackey and Crawford, perhaps Theo got greedy, or perhaps ownership gave him a new task: build an annual CHAMPIONSHIP contender (not just a playoff contender) in the mold of the Yankees...but with at least 25% less payroll. We can't be sure if Theo really wanted to make those moves or not, but keep in mind that the core success of any GM, Yankee GMs aside, comes from their ability to scout, evaluate, and develop minor league talent, and Theo has shown himself to be quite good at that. His stature as a strong GM is certain. Is he the best? It depends on the criteria, and chances are he is not. Is he top 5, or even top 10? Given how subjective such a question is, there is no sure answer, but he might not even be ranked there. But he's definitely not a BAD GM, or even a mediocre one...which makes this thread pretty silly.
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]


    You only have 100+ posts so far. I think you should post more often.

    Ultimately, we can overanalyze every move Theo has made - the good ones and the bad ones, but it dies not really matter. He managed the team to the ultimate goal of ending the drought...and more.


    It does not matter what small market teams are able to do with smaller payrolls or that Theo might not be a successful manager with a smaller payroll. Fact is he's successful with the payroll he has and its purely speculative that others would suceed as much with his payroll. 

    Before Theo, the only big payroll team that kept winning was the Yankees. At least now, the RS actually competes with them consistently and actually I think the other side is more concerened about them now than ever.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    VMart can't catch, is horrible at 1B and won't age well

    This statement is the very essence of reactionary nonsense. VMart just caught a shutout and was Buch's favorite catcher. "Won't age well", he's hitting like the normal gifted hitter numbers he always has, which leaves just 3 more years on his contract.

    1) He's hitting above what he "always has"
    2) He's playinf DH way more than catching.
    3) His sample size this year is smaller that that of Jake and Jed's, but for some reason, their sample size is too small to use.

    Contrast that to Crawford, who has been nothing short of pitiful. Even assuming he returns somewhere near his career averages, only a fool would attempt to apologize and defend what amounts to an absurd contract offer that has 6 more years to go after this year.

    Even if he does better than 2010 for 5 years, the contract was absurd.

    Give me 10 examples of career .300 hitters who fall apart at age 34. No, give me 100 examples.

    There are probably thousands, but doing the research for you is fruitless.
    Do it yourself and start with Jim Ed.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    Seriously though, since the Nomar Trade, the FA signings have not been good ovrall. The trades have been good and bad. The drfting and hording of draft picks has been very good, and the timing of letting our big ticket players walk has been excellent thus far. The jury is still outon VMart and Beltre.

    I get the money arguments, but if we took away Lackey and CC, we'd  have more wins this year, not less.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    With Babe still posting under his own name and now with one of his aliases "yazzer", I can barely get through this thread. A Yankee troll, banned 8,000 times, who says he's not at all interested in what Sox fans think. lol 

    Btw, it's nice to see the board gestapo has no problem with Babe, his aliases and his "division" of the board.  Why aren't they constantly naming them or talking about them? And his posts are all over the board as opposed to one thread. I guess as long as you're a Yankee fan, it's all good.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    dont change the subject kim!  Tongue out
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    dont change the subject kim! -- Burrito
    ---------------------------------

    Why? I thought the subject was things that don't make sense. Tongue out
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    moon yes the drafting has been very good - but its good to see you admit the FA signings have been sub-par.  This is what happens when you let an average GM have an open purse - they do not know how to handle it.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....:
    [QUOTE]Give me 10 examples of career .300 hitters who fall apart at age 34. No, give me 100 examples.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    If I could find my old posts, I could give Softy quite a long list of players who fell apart in their early 30s around 32, 33, 34. Before the PED era, it was par for the course for a lot of players.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    our GM is quite good (of course he has Henry's wallet)  it is our manager who is not that good

    i could win 94 games at the helm with this team - the only thing 'Coma has to do is not screw up the relief pitching changes
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    ) His sample size this year is smaller that that of Jake and Jed's, but for some reason, their sample size is too small to use.

    A career sample size is not small.

    I'm waiting for the examples of players who have had long careers as .300 BA and high OBP career averages falling apart at age 32, 33, 34. You took the power hitter PED red herring route, in attempt to apologize for Crawford's contract.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    trade theo and throw in tito
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    Give it a rest Softy. Just because he caught a shutout doesn't mean Vmart is a good catcher. Lowrie is hitting .315 and you think he can't play.  When you base your arguement on a one game sample, you sound clueless.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    moon yes the drafting has been very good - but its good to see you admit the FA signings have been sub-par.  This is what happens when you let an average GM have an open purse - they do not know how to handle it.

    Last spring I took a lot of grief for posting a total list of every major move Theo has made since the Nomar deal. I then graded them based only on hindsight: the normal way GMs in all sports are graded (with the possible exception of unforeseen injuries to normally healthy players acquired).
    The results were not pretty.

    I am not the "homer" you may think I am. I really try to be objective and point out when people use numbers that are false or misleading by countering with numbers that can/may show the opposite is true.

    I have been very critical of Theo over the years, but have praised him for his areas of success. I have posted threads on Gorman's role in our team's success. I have been more and more critical of Tito and by extension, Theo for not doing anything about his tendencies that are detrimental to our chances of winning...namely not breaking from tired old paradigms.

    That being said, it is not as easy as you may think being a GM on a big spending tough media area team. Almost all high priced FA's do not live up to expectations or past numbers.

    Look at the list of the highest paid players  in MLB history and see how many have failed. Then look at the ones who have done ell or OK and notice how many carried some other negative baggage with the deal at some point.

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2000/05/most-lucrative-contracts.html
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    His sample size this year is smaller that that of Jake and Jed's, but for some reason, their sample size is too small to use.

    A career sample size is not small.

    I'm waiting for the examples of players who have had long careers as .300 BA and high OBP career averages falling apart at age 32, 33, 34. You took the power hitter PED red herring route, in attempt to apologize for Crawford's contract.

    You have totally lost it. I have been dead against the CC signing from the start of the debate last fall. You know it. You are making no sense whatsoever. I have never apologized for CC's deal in any way.

    As for the long list of players who are good hitters and who decine at age 34:

    1) you just moved the goal post again from "at age 34"  to now "32, 33, and 34". You are a joke.

    "Give me 10 examples of career .300 hitters who fall apart at age 34. No, give me 100 examples." (the clown)

    2) Everytime you ask someone to do the research, and they do, it proves you were wrong and you move the posts again.

    3) You are the champion of the term "wheelchair" contract. You continuously have blasted posters for suggesting signing aging stars. Suddenly, when it's a player you have championed for years, the goalpost is moved and we are expected to disregard the age and decline issue.

    4) I never claimed the drop off at age 34 was PED related. Your "herring" is smelly.  Royf19 was the one who mentioned something about PEDS, not me. Please, do ty and follow along.

    5) Start with Jim Ed Rice's career .300 + hitter (.355+ OBP & .870+ Slg%) until he turned 34:
    34: .277/.357/.408
    35: .264/.330/.406
    36: .234/.276/.344
    37: Out of MLB

    Do the research yourself.




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-yazzer. Show the-yazzer's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    HEY KIMEATTHIS,

    YAZZER is not the BABE.
    YAZZER just happens to believe that theo is a mediocre GM, whose time in BOSTON has passed; like a bad tv series.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    Yasss... sirrr!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe--1. Show --The--Babe--1's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....:
    [QUOTE]With Babe still posting under his own name and now with one of his aliases "yazzer", I can barely get through this thread. A Yankee troll, banned 8,000 times, who says he's not at all interested in what Sox fans think. lol  Btw, it's nice to see the board gestapo has no problem with Babe, his aliases and his "division" of the board.  Why aren't they constantly naming them or talking about them? And his posts are all over the board as opposed to one thread. I guess as long as you're a Yankee fan, it's all good.

    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    LOL...here's some advice....don't quit your day job. You are more Jacques Clouseau than Sherlock Holmes.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    Hey Moon:

    Your critique of Theo was tough, but fair.  That's the point.  The guy is bold and sometimes things don't work out.  Others who paint with broad strokes and say he should be fired for this move or that are clueless about what it takes to lead.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    Burrito,

    All he has done is produced a winning team for I believe going on 8 years now, but I guess that's not good enough for you. Sorry but it's good enough for the majority of Red Sox fans. Why don't you apply for the job since you think you are so aware of how to run a MLB team,afterall anyone can do it with a budget like the Red Sox. You sort of say it yourself.  

    Hetchinspete
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DCEsquire. Show DCEsquire's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    pretty myopic to say he's not above-average (or even outstanding)  by saying he has purchased some duds.  FA acquisitions are hardly the end point of a GM's work.  And it's particular BS to cite Lackey as an example.  If Lackey were winning 17-18 games for the yankees right now you'd be bitching for another reason.

    Theo and his team are the league's best at:
    --Draft and scouting
    --Minor League talent development
    --Arbitration, and using arbitration to acquire draft picks

    And as good or better at making FA acquisitions that work.

    There's three areas where the Sox are head and shoulders above the reast of the league including our division rivals.

    Theo will be around (and popular) a long time.  And thank god for that.

    And for the record, the one mistake Theo has made that is worthy of criticism is the Arroyo/Will Mo Pena. Trade.  But, again, myopic.  You're sort of clueless I think.  Hater!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....:
    [QUOTE]Burrito, All he has done is produced a winning team for I believe going on 8 years now, but I guess that's not good enough for you. Sorry but it's good enough for the majority of Red Sox fans. Why don't you apply for the job since you think you are so aware of how to run a MLB team,afterall anyone can do it with a budget like the Red Sox. You sort of say it yourself.   Hetchinspete
    Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE]


    Yes thats really tough to do when 80% of the rest of the American League has to trade away its star players when they go for the big payday..... real good work.

    Why don't you take a look around MLB and see that Johnny Damon should have never left the Royals, that Cliff Lee and CC Sabathia should still be pitching for the Indians, and Josh Beckett likely would still be wearing a Marlins jersey. 

    Tell me where the Red Sox would be without FA or a big wallet...

    HetchinGoofy perhaps you like it when the top 20% of baseball controls the very best of the crop... perhaps that is your ideas of happiness.

    You must live in the top 1% income bracket, thus as a RS fan you truly enjoy your fringe benefits.

    You have to buy or have someone buy your happiness - true American that you are,

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe--1. Show --The--Babe--1's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....:
    [QUOTE]pretty myopic to say he's not above-average (or even outstanding)  by saying he has purchased some duds.  FA acquisitions are hardly the end point of a GM's work.  And it's particular BS to cite Lackey as an example.  If Lackey were winning 17-18 games for the yankees right now you'd be bitching for another reason. Theo and his team are the league's best at: --Draft and scouting --Minor League talent development --Arbitration, and using arbitration to acquire draft picks And as good or better at making FA acquisitions that work. There's three areas where the Sox are head and shoulders above the reast of the league including our division rivals. Theo will be around (and popular) a long time.  And thank god for that. And for the record, the one mistake Theo has made that is worthy of criticism is the Arroyo/Will Mo Pena. Trade.  But, again, myopic.  You're sort of clueless I think.  Hater!

    Posted by DCEsquire[/QUOTE]

    Have you heard of the rays?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good..... : Have you heard of the rays?
    Posted by --The--Babe--1[/QUOTE]

    You and I may have but unfortunately for the team most people living in the Tampa Bay area haven't, or so it appears.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Let us ADMIT it, our GM really is not all that good.....

    So Burrito is not happy that Theo is playing by the rules of the game, lol.

    And no one will ever know where we'd be without big pockets and free agency, but chances are we'd still be in decent shape considering Lester, Buch, Paps, Bard, Lowrie, Pedroia, Youks and Ellsbury are all homegrown and pick ups like Aceves, Atchinson, Hill, Morales, Salty and Ortiz were bargain pick ups and had nothing to do with big pockets.
     
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