Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

       I'm an unabashed Francona supporter, he is the best Sox manager these eyes have seen, and I go back to before Williams, that's Dick not Jimy. The FO has given Tito limited resources, i.e.their inability to fill in leaks once season started.They have gone on the cheap to solve bull-pen,RH bat for RF or bench, 5th starter etc. The Sox put all their capital on opening day roster, and have displayed a team that is  content to make play-offs, not win them. If Terry is fired he'll have any number of teams knocking on his door. Be careful what you ask for because this team, in this market, calls for an even tempered, eyes on  the big picture personality. I'm just curious but those out there that want Francona gone, who do you suggest replaces him.











     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    course he will dan, and theo will still be our gm. sin loi to all the tito/theo haters out there.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    well i dont think anyone could answer that question, but i will say that i, as well as most redsox fans, have been dumbfounded by the managerial strategies of tito down the stretch, hes left me scratching my head on numerous occasions...however we do owe the man respect for ending our world series drought and even bringing another one home in '07, but one would think we could do better then 4-14 in september with the payroll that we have...francona isnt the problem, but he may be part of it, he just doesnt seem to have the respect from any of the new additions the redsox have, espescially slackey, and that may have something to do with why the new additions have struggled, with the exception of adrian gonzo of course
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    if theo and 'coma are back next year, i will no longer follow the SOX.
    how anyone could actually want those two knuckleheads back is beyond comprehension. except hammah, he's a hillbilly and not responsible for his thoughts. hell, he even likes the terrible ac/dc.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]if theo and 'coma are back next year, i will no longer follow the SOX. how anyone could actually want those two knuckleheads back is beyond comprehension. except hammah, he's a hillbilly and not responsible for his thoughts. hell, he even likes the terrible ac/dc.
    Posted by sadsax[/QUOTE]

    You care about music?  What's your fav band, sackless?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12? : You care about music?  What's your fav band, sackless?
    Posted by CTJake14[/QUOTE]


    homer and jethro; i'm sure you have the complete catalogue, brainless.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]if theo and 'coma are back next year, i will no longer follow the SOX. how anyone could actually want those two knuckleheads back is beyond comprehension. except hammah, he's a hillbilly and not responsible for his thoughts. hell, he even likes the terrible ac/dc.
    Posted by sadsax[/QUOTE]
    Well then don't let the door hit you in the asp on the way out !
    Some of us fans have watched front office mismanagement or mis-managers like Sullivan, Zimmer, Little, etc. absolutely botch everything. Mis-mailed contracts, foolish trades, short-sighted drafting, not playing best players due to personal animosities....you name it.
    Does Theo overreach in free agency ? Sure. Does Tito overdo it on r/l platooning ? Okay !
    But TWO world champs in 7 years ? After ignominous failure for previous 86 ?
    Cut 'em some slack.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12? : Well then don't let the door hit you in the asp on the way out ! Some of us fans have watched front office mismanagement or mis-managers like Sullivan, Zimmer, Little, etc. absolutely botch everything. Mis-mailed contracts, foolish trades, short-sighted drafting, not playing best players due to personal animosities....you name it. Does Theo overreach in free agency ? Sure. Does Tito overdo it on r/l platooning ? Okay ! But TWO world champs in 7 years ? After ignominous failure for previous 86 ? Cut 'em some slack.
    Posted by jimedfred[/QUOTE]

    And to add, the Sox had the one of the best records in baseball -- second, third or fourth, something like that -- at the start of the month despite losing the No. 5 starter for most of the season and the No. 3 starter for more than half the season; having just two dependable starters, Beckett and Lester and even they missed starts; having Crawford underachieve, getting mediocre production combined from RF and having Youk be a no-show offensively in the second half.

    Some of it caught up with Sox this month.

    It wasn't Francona's fault that:

    Reddick blew a game or two with his defense because Drew never came back;

    None of the pitching replacements (Weiland, Miller) were able to step up like Lester, Buccholz and even Gabbard did when they were first brought up;

    Albers, who had an ERA just over 2.00 at the end of July, imploded for five weeks;

    Bard blew two games in week when the Sox had leads of three runs;

    Lackey couldn't even perform like he did last year;

    Wakefield began struggling after his first 15 starts, which was more than adequate.

    Including Lester and Beckett, the starting pitchers have two QS in September.

    Nearly anyone in an overworked bullpen can get anyone out.

    Even with the struggles, the Sox should be up about four or five games in the wild card. The Sox can't catch a break. A bad umpire call on Monday cost Ortiz an RBI, which might have cost the Sox the game. Reddick makes another boneheaded play in RF but Bedard can't get the next guy out. It seems like after every mistake -- bad call, bad play, bad baserunning -- no one can pick it up for the teammates. Every mistake seems to just kill the Sox right now.

    The biggest thing goes back to the starting pitching. When the starters are falling behind 4-0 in the first or second inning and the offense is always playing catch-up, it's demoralizing. I don't see how that's the manager's fault.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from REBEL. Show REBEL's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?


    Of course he will be the Redsox Manager in 2012!  Theo, et al would lose all credibility if he where let go!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingobilly. Show bingobilly's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?


    Again I repeat, this is a freakin business and as such in business when failure looms the axe falls on the manager as it must.  Obviously, he does not play in the field or come to bat however, it is what it is managers in all environments get fired.  Failure of the organization to produce always falls on the shoulders of its so-called leaders...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]   I'm an unabashed Francona supporter, he is the best Sox manager these eyes have seen, and I go back to before Williams, that's Dick not Jimy. The FO has given Tito limited resources, i.e.their inability to fill in leaks once season started.They have gone on the cheap to solve bull-pen,RH bat for RF or bench, 5th starter etc. The Sox put all their capital on opening day roster, and have displayed a team that is  content to make play-offs, not win them. If Terry is fired he'll have any number of teams knocking on his door. Be careful what you ask for because this team, in this market, calls for an even tempered, eyes on  the big picture personality. I'm just curious but those out there that want Francona gone, who do you suggest replaces him.
    Posted by attic-dan[/QUOTE] I also go back to beyond the days of Dick Williams and as far as I'm concerned Theo stays and Tippy departs. His ingame managerial skills make Grady Little look like the reincaration of Miller Huggins! He doesn't know how to manage a pitching staff as can be proven by the last 4 seasons of falling apart at the end of the season! He has the best that money can buy and yet he still fails. Why he even puts Marco Scrubtaro in at SS still boggles my mind,or how about continuing to ride the dead horse Reddick until he commits another blunder in the OF. Granted he is hamstrung by only having a career minor leaguer as a replacement for Reddick in DMac. He has no feel for game flow and though his record is a good one that is more of a mirage than you think,I'm pretty sure that the Sox would still win 88-93 games regardless of who's managing! Tito never backs his relievers up with an alternate and that has cost him on more than one occassion. Hey I will still be a sox fan regardless of his status next year but this is "a what have you done for me lately type of industry" and let's be honest Tito has failed 4 straight years!So IMHO he's the guy the axe falls on.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    I've never seen more excuses in my life! Team was consensus division pick.

    Regardless of post season results, Theo needs to be fired and Tito needs to be put on probation. If its another excuse year in 2012, send Tito to another payroll. Tito is contrained some by Epstein bean counter idiocy, but Tito is nothing more than a favorite union members' uncle. He can be a calming clubhouse force, but that is more helpful in post season than 162 game season. 

    Gm with a budget north of 160M should be able to find a manager to win more than one less division than the Rays.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    Since the owner is not a Steinbrenner - both will be coming back for 2012 unless of course either ops out to take the Chicago job.  Throw out the hard to swallow pill of 2011 (which isn't etched in stone yet) and one has to admit that no tandem in Sox history has done what these two along with management has ever done in history.  They have brought respectability to Boston, something the Sox never had until 2003.  They have brought WS championships to Boston, something the Sox went almost 100 years without.  But most of all they have brought expectations to the Sox fans, something you can witness every day of the year right here on this board - not to mention creating the greatest rivalry in the history of sports.  I remember when you couldn't buy Sox memorabilia outside of Boston, and the Celtics were the only team you could talk about in sports...those were lean times.  Today though I complain long and loud, I am still grateful for what present management has brought to the Sox.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    2004 was Duke fingerprints.

    Credit for two titles goes to ownership budget and players.

    Tito should be on probation at year end, if team bombs. Regardless of playoff restults, Theo should be fired.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    I have long believed that manager gets the credit both ways--for success or lack thereof.  And for at least a month I've thought maybe Francona should get canned at the end of the year.

    But the simple reality is that it all starts with the starters, and this year the starters have been inconsistent, but especially in September, during which the Sox have so far gone 5-16.  Two of those wins were well-pitched games.  In the other three, the Sox scored 12, 18, and 18 runs.  The poor starts have put a strain on both the bullpen and the lineup.  In most games it seems as though there is no limit on how many runs the Sox will need to win. 

    Next year Francona might be on double secret probation, but he will be back.  Ditto Epstein if he doesn't go to Chicago. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    Revoke Theo's probation, immediately! Look for a man in a Gorilla suit with a Cubs hat.
     
    Put Tito on house arrest.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]   I'm an unabashed Francona supporter, he is the best Sox manager these eyes have seen, and I go back to before Williams, that's Dick not Jimy. The FO has given Tito limited resources, i.e.their inability to fill in leaks once season started.They have gone on the cheap to solve bull-pen,RH bat for RF or bench, 5th starter etc. The Sox put all their capital on opening day roster, and have displayed a team that is  content to make play-offs, not win them. If Terry is fired he'll have any number of teams knocking on his door. Be careful what you ask for because this team, in this market, calls for an even tempered, eyes on  the big picture personality. I'm just curious but those out there that want Francona gone, who do you suggest replaces him.
    Posted by attic-dan[/QUOTE]

    How about Eckersley or Mike Lowell or Fisk? Even this guy would be a vast improvement over Francona, google him, "J. Fred Muggs" you'll understasnd why I think he'd do a better job than Francona.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12? : How about Eckersley or Mike Lowell or Fisk? Even this guy would be a vast improvement over Francona, google him, "J. Fred Muggs" you'll understasnd why I think he'd do a better job than Francona.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
    Finally someone has give an answer to the thread question. Congrats BoSox1941.

    I don't want either to leave, but if I had to replace Tito, I would take a hard look at Mike Lowell.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    I think Tito will be gone next year. He is too much a player's manager and that does not always work with every group of players. It hasn't worked with  this group. Fans have resorted to booing...as they have to sit through another blown game by the Sox. If they can't beat Baltimore ..something is wrong..and if something is wrong someone has to go. I think it will be Francona.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]   I'm an unabashed Francona supporter, he is the best Sox manager these eyes have seen, and I go back to before Williams, that's Dick not Jimy. The FO has given Tito limited resources, i.e.their inability to fill in leaks once season started.They have gone on the cheap to solve bull-pen,RH bat for RF or bench, 5th starter etc. The Sox put all their capital on opening day roster, and have displayed a team that is  content to make play-offs, not win them. If Terry is fired he'll have any number of teams knocking on his door. Be careful what you ask for because this team, in this market, calls for an even tempered, eyes on  the big picture personality. I'm just curious but those out there that want Francona gone, who do you suggest replaces him.
    Posted by attic-dan[/QUOTE]  If you go back as far as Dick Williams as I do (college age at the time), you realize what he accomplished with both the Boston Red Sox and Oakland Athletics.  It's rare that any new manager has much of an impact on a team that did not change personnel much from one year to the next, but Williams took a lazy, overpaid and complacent group of players and forced them to play the game the right way overnight.  A ninth place team in 1966 morphed into a pennant winner in 1967.  From 1950 to 1966 the Boston Red Sox had not finished higher than 3rd place and were a laughing stock around baseball at the time Williams was hired.  

    Francona, on the other hand, inherited a very good team (guys like Ramirez, Ortiz, Martinez, Lowe, Damon and Varitek were highly regarded all-star caliber players) which added expensive players like Curt Schilling and Keith Foulke and ultimately had to replace an inconic shortstop with a group of players who actually wanted to play and compete for the betterment of the team.  Francona is a good manager and has an ideal demeanor for the absurd media market in which he manages.  The devil you know (Francona) is likely superior to the devil you do not know.  That's why the "fire Francoma" crowd offers absolutely nothing of substance.  They whine incessantly at the easiest and most obvious target of frustration and angst, but are clueless as to the type of person who can manage a group of overpaid and pampered prima donnas without losing his mind.    
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12? :   If you go back as far as Dick Williams as I do (college age at the time), you realize what he accomplished with both the Boston Red Sox and Oakland Athletics.  It's rare that any new manager has much of an impact on a team that did not change personnel much from one year to the next , but Williams took a lazy, overpaid and complacent group of players and forced them to play the game the right way overnight.  A ninth place team in 1966 morphed into a pennant winner in 1967.  From 1950 to 1966 the Boston Red Sox had not finished higher than 3rd place and were a laughing stock around baseball at the time Williams was hired.   Francona, on the other hand, inherited a very good team (guys like Ramirez, Ortiz, Martinez, Lowe, Damon and Varitek were highly regarded all-star caliber players) which added expensive players like Curt Schilling and Keith Foulke and ultimately had to replace an inconic shortstop with a group of players who actually wanted to play and compete for the betterment of the team.  Francona is a good manager and has an ideal demeanor for the absurd media market in which he manages.  The devil you know (Francona) is likely superior to the devil you do not know.  That's why the "fire Francoma" crowd offers absolutely nothing of substance.  They whine incessantly at the easiest and most obvious target of frustration and angst, but are clueless as to the type of person who can manage a group of overpaid and pampered prima donnas without losing his mind.    
    Posted by WilcyMoore[/QUOTE]
    Without a re-dedicated Yaz, who went from a good player to HOF during the off-season from '66 to '67, something Dick williams had nothing to do with by the way. He then alienated team in '68 with his my way or the highway attitude.Williams was always a quick fix type of manager not someone you'd hire for the long haul. The fact that Tito brang back the Sox after the debacle of Grady Little, down 3-0 in games and being slaughtered by the Yanks in game three, seems to be easily dismissed from Tito bashers.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    I wonder why Grady Little who was able to take us to the cusp of a WS, is lambasted for one bad move, or un-move. He didn't even have Curt Schilling on the team.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    Politics. Scapegoats are prime targets.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?

    In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's End This Non-Sense Right Now, Tito Will Be Manager In '12? : Without a re-dedicated Yaz, who went from a good player to HOF during the off-season from '66 to '67, something Dick williams had nothing to do with by the way. He then alienated team in '68 with his my way or the highway attitude.Williams was always a quick fix type of manager not someone you'd hire for the long haul. The fact that Tito brang back the Sox after the debacle of Grady Little, down 3-0 in games and being slaughtered by the Yanks in game three, seems to be easily dismissed from Tito bashers.
    Posted by attic-an[/QUOTE  Mythological and revisionist history on your part.  You must have been a fan of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil Will McDonough back in the day.  Yaz was a pampered prima donna who had not played up to his potential when Williams was hired.  He had great talent although longevity ended up being his greatest strength, but was essentially smug, selfish, lazy and anything but a team player.  Ask Bill Lee about Yaz as a teammate.  It was always all about him.  Good luck trying to get more money.  I have mine and that's all that really matters. 

    Williams forced Yas to hustle game in and game out and be what he could be occasionally benching him for not running out groundballs.  It was Williams who demanded the best of the player.  Yaz tired of it in 1968 and whined to his pal and Sox owner, Tom Yawkey, that Williams was too hard on him and other players on the team.  Unsaid was that they liked the country club atmosphere and Williams was too tough and demandingl.  Yawkey obviously wanted to keep Yaz happy and he fired the best manager the miserable franchise had since former Yankee manager Joe McCarthy in the late 1940's.   

    Your comment that Williams had nothing to do with taking what had been a mediocre and failed franchise from 1950 to 1966 and guiding them to a pennant in the span of one season is ludicrous.  He was unquestionably the catalyst and his success as a baseball manger after he was fired speaks for itself.   

    I know something of baseball history and think I have the ability and knowledge to view it objectively, factually and eliminate the filter of media spin. I don't make things up or exaggerate for the sake of being controversial.  My information is often overlooked and unbiased.  Take it for what it's worth. 

     
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