Let's talk Bard

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Let's talk Bard



    Did anyone else notice that Bard started pitching from the stretch (with no one on base) in his last couple of innings against the Orioles? I did not notice when he switched from his, aleady moderate, wind-up.

    His highs of 98 have become highs of 93, and that's only, for the most part, when he holds onto the ball too long and pulls it directly at a lefty's feet.

    I was an early rooter for the team t make a starter out of him because, mainly, I never liked his work in really tough late innings. Better he get out of whack in an early inning rather than the 7th or 8th. As long as he's throwing under 96, he's not going to make the grade. Period. He doesn't have the command to be a Beckett-type pitcher. (sometimes Beckett doesn't either, but that's another story.

    Bard's now throwing with his him; that's like Tiger Woods hitting a golf ball without the big turn.

    What to do with this guy?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    We don't have any other options for a starter to replace him.......
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    I am disappointed in him , but I would not give up on him quite yet. It's not saying much , but he has been better than Buchholz.  He apparently thinks he has to pace himself as a starter, hence the drop in velocity. That is not going to get it done. He needs to establish the good fastball early , then mix in his other pitches. As Andrew stated , there are no good alternatives at the moment.  And , he is not needed in the bullpen right now, either.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    maybe you should give the more than 7 weeks as a starter before you crucify him/ are diappointed in him????

    he's done pretty well from being a one inning guy last yr to a starter now imho
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Shadowcpt. Show Shadowcpt's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]maybe you should give the more than 7 weeks as a starter before you crucify him/ are diappointed in him???? he's done pretty well from being a one inning guy last yr to a starter now imho
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Amen. Let's try to back of our New England Sports Fan reflex reaction and let's try to be patient with this guy. Moving from one inning specailist to starter is like learning to walk all over again. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]maybe you should give the more than 7 weeks as a starter before you crucify him/ are diappointed in him???? he's done pretty well from being a one inning guy last yr to a starter now imho
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I would give him 27 weeks, but the RS won't. I want him to be the 97 MPH pitcher he was. Going from the pen to starting has nothing to do with his fastball. Either he get it to where it once was, or he can't. And right now he can't, and I'm wondering why.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard : Amen. Let's try to back of our New England Sports Fan reflex reaction and let's try to be patient with this guy. Moving from one inning specailist to starter is like learning to walk all over again. 
    Posted by Shadowcpt[/QUOTE]

    Pitchers have switched from pen to starter, and from starter to pen since the beginning of baseball. Either you can hit your target a good percent of the time, lor you can't. If you're  a fastball picher, you can get the high hard one in there, or you can't. Bard is an entirely different pitcher than he was last year. And, looking back, he was different last year than he was the year before.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard : I would give him 27 weeks, but the RS won't. I want him to be the 97 MPH pitcher he was. Going from the pen to starting has nothing to do with his fastball. Either he get it to where it once was, or he can't. And right now he can't, and I'm wondering why.
    Posted by bosoxmal[/QUOTE]

    An SP never throws as hard as they did when they were RPs.  Never.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    Pitchers have switched from pen to starter, and from starter to pen since the beginning of baseball.

    Bard had made about 250 relief appearances in a row.  In the last 20 years, show me how many guys have throw 250 relief appearances, and then switched to starting.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]maybe you should give the more than 7 weeks as a starter before you crucify him/ are diappointed in him???? he's done pretty well from being a one inning guy last yr to a starter now imho
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I agree. 

    And I do agree with Mazz in that Bard should be more aggressive with his fastball. He needs to challenge hitters more. Maybe he turned down the heat as he learns to pace himself, but I think he should be more aggressive with his fastball. He needs IMO to establish his fastball then throw other pitches off it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard : I agree.  And I do agree with Mazz in that Bard should be more aggressive with his fastball. He needs to challenge hitters more. Maybe he turned down the heat as he learns to pace himself, but I think he should be more aggressive with his fastball. He needs IMO to establish his fastball then throw other pitches off it.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
    Exactly right Roy....forget pacing yourself....it is only causing him to throw too many pitches and go 5 anyway. Bard should let it fly.....he is a no effort FB guy anyway....the ball comes easy out of his hand.....once he reestablishes that big FB in the other teams mind, he can get away with taking something off it and then dial it up when needed....ala Pedro used to do.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    As I remember, Bard threw 6-7 innings at NC with mostly a 97-100MPH FB and one offspeed pitch...He should be able to pace himself at a higher velocity...But I agree It might not happen right away since being a 1-2 inning pitcher the last few years. But if he wants to be effective he will have to dial it up a bit and have better control...One thing that does concern me is the fact that he had control issues after he was drafted which is why he was converted to a reliever...Im pulling for the kid and hope he can get it together and find his way...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    I am very willing to continue to have patience with Bard as a starting pitcher, bu ti still worry that this move from the bullpen may have ruined his entire career.

    He just never looks confident in very many innings as a starter like he used to look in most innings as a reliever for some reason.  He has lost 5% off his fast ball in only one year and his control certainly has not been good in most of his starts to date.

    I understood the idea of moving him to the rotation, but I hope that he is not going to have his career get away from him.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    Andrew, I think we have two options in the pen and perhaps a third when and if Bailey gets back this season.

    I consider Padilla and Miller very capable of stepping into Bard's spot and pitch as well, if not better.

    The third option is Aceves--I think Aceves can do long, short, start, close, etc--whatever you need. If Melancon has it do it sooner--if not when Bailey is ready.
    In the meantime move Bard back to the set-up and slip Padilla or Miller into Bard's spot.


    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]We don't have any other options for a starter to replace him.......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    I think he will be just fine as our #5 starter if he can control the ball..  Just too many walks in early innings.  If he can only cut down the walks, he will be one of the top #5 starter in the league with his fastballs and nasty slider.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]Andrew, I think we have two options in the pen and perhaps a third when and if Bailey gets back this season. I consider Padilla and Miller very capable of stepping into Bard's spot and pitch as well, if not better. The third option is Aceves--I think Aceves can do long, short, start, close, etc--whatever you need. If Melancon has it do it sooner--if not when Bailey is ready. In the meantime move Bard back to the set-up and slip Padilla or Miller into Bard's spot. In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard :
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    Someday theu'll have a "Rivera Award". Must have xx bumber of innings, xx number of saves, what-have you. Aceves would be a candidate if that were in effect this year. Not just effectivceness, but he's ready to go EVERY DAY! How valuable can you get. Without him as anchor, it's hard to say where we'd be.

     (Remember '11)!!!!
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    Our number 1 problem right now is Clay Our number 2 problem are injuries Our number 3 problem is Bard Seems like this isn't a big deal yet since we don't have the starting pitching to replace Clay, so we definately don't have the starter to replace Bard. He will simply have to work through it until Clay is resolved first.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    Of course he needs to be able to bring the heat again to be effective in his starter role.  But, I think this is a steeper learning curve than some of you think.  In college, he may have thrown 97 or whatever as a starter, but, he was also throwing essentially two pitches.  Now he is trying to consistently and effectively use 4 in his repertoire, and use those four a few times through a batting order.  Very difficult.  It might be frustrating to watch a guy that we know can cheese it up at 97-98 throwing 91 mph cookies.  But, I think we need to give him more time to figure it all out.  If he is still lacking heat by mid-summer, let us re-assess.  But 7 or 8 starts is still learning time.  Yes, it is frustrating that we have to wwatch him learn on the job.  But, that was inevitable given the timing of this transition.  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    I think Bard is tranisitioning well, there are going to be bumps in the road but overall he has pitched well.  Regarding velocity, of course it is going to be down when he is not just throwing a few innings a week anymore.

    I also think Bard has had some bad luck as well.  Look at the 1st inning yesterday, IF single, soft single up the middle, runners tag and move up on fly ball to left and runner scores on shallow fly ball to CF, not exactly an inning when he got knocked around.  How many almost DP balls did Bard get yesterday, 2-3 at least, but the IF couldn't quite turn them. 

    Bard has been good so far and will only get better.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    The walk thing.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard : An SP never throws as hard as they did when they were RPs.  Never.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Really? And why is that oh wise one?
    Please, share with us you irrefutable evidence.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    When it comes down to it, Bard is pitching well for a 5th starter.

    We knew (or at least you should have known) this would be a bumpy transition and would take some time.  We may not see the full dividends until next year.

    But as of right now he is pitching in the 5 slot, and is pitching at least as good as a #4.

    yes the peripherals are troublesome....but there is no reason to give up on him now.

    What's that? you want a stronger Pen??? bring up Melancon. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    Bard is still a thrower, much loke Buchholz, but is learning to become a pitcher at a much quicker pace. It took Masterson a full season of struggles to finally learn to be a starter.
    I said all along that Bard should have been used as long relief and to spot start occasionally this year. Better transition that way.
    But no, Ben had different ideas.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Let's talk Bard

    In Response to Re: Let's talk Bard:
    [QUOTE]Bard is still a thrower, much loke Buchholz, but is learning to become a pitcher at a much quicker pace. It took Masterson a full season of struggles to finally learn to be a starter. I said all along that Bard should have been used as long relief and to spot start occasionally this year. Better transition that way. But no, Ben had different ideas.
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]

     I would say, if anything, the flaw in Bard's approach right now is that he is trying so hard to be a 'pitcher', that he has temporarily forgotten how to just rear back and throw.  But, that seems like a natural and necessary process in this transition.  I think it likely that he will be able to find a good balance as he gets more experience under his belt.
     

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