Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    :)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    Red Sox fans are incredibly spoiled at this point.  Any team that can go any combo of Ells, pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Middlebrooks, victorino and Salty 1 through 7 has a good line up.

    This isn't to say it is the greatest line up ever but those that act like this line up is bad really do not know what they are talking about.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In all seriousness guys, our line-up is not that great. I can see being optimistic that a bunch of things will all work out at the same time. I'm tired of wishing for great confluences of chance to allign for a magical season.

    Here's a look at the bright side and the not-so-bright side. It is my contention that there is probably close to a 50-50 chance we have as many of these turn out on the bad side as the good...

                            The bright side                                                   The dark side

    Ellsbury     Could repeat 2011 or better                Could repeat 2010 or 2012

    Victorino   Could do well in Fenway                       3 year .264/.334/.434/.768

    Pedroia     3 yr: .297/.368/.469/.837                   .797 OPS in 2012

    D Ortiz        Has hit well recently                              Age and injury issues

    Napoli        3 yr: .261/.355/.520/.875                  2 of last 3 yrs below .812 OPS

    Middlbrks  Had a great start in 2012                  Small sample size/high K rate

    Salty/Ross   Showed improvement                  Can Ross give us Shopp #'s?

    Gomes/Nava/Kalish   Hard to find upside             A lot can go wrong here.   

    Iggy/Chiriaco  Great fielding/weak bats           Big loss on offense from M.A.

     

    Let's assume 3 out of these 5 do great: Ells, Pedey, Papi, Naps and Victorino, but 2 do as they have done in recent years on the low side. We'd need Middlebrooks and Salty to break out or some miracle from LF and SS to make this a fine offensive team.    

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Spot on

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Red Sox fans are incredibly spoiled at this point.  Any team that can go any combo of Ells, pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Middlebrooks, victorino and Salty 1 through 7 has a good line up.

    This isn't to say it is the greatest line up ever but those that act like this line up is bad really do not know what they are talking about.

    [/QUOTE]

    Never said it was bad, but many here are assuming most will have good years, when there is at least equal evidence that indicates many could have down years in 2013.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In all seriousness guys, our line-up is not that great. I can see being optimistic that a bunch of things will all work out at the same time. I'm tired of wishing for great confluences of chance to allign for a magical season.

    Here's a look at the bright side and the not-so-bright side. It is my contention that there is probably close to a 50-50 chance we have as many of these turn out on the bad side as the good...

                            The bright side                                                   The dark side

    Ellsbury     Could repeat 2011 or better                Could repeat 2010 or 2012

    Victorino   Could do well in Fenway                       3 year .264/.334/.434/.768

    Pedroia     3 yr: .297/.368/.469/.837                   .797 OPS in 2012

    D Ortiz        Has hit well recently                              Age and injury issues

    Napoli        3 yr: .261/.355/.520/.875                  2 of last 3 yrs below .812 OPS

    Middlbrks  Had a great start in 2012                  Small sample size/high K rate

    Salty/Ross   Showed improvement                  Can Ross give us Shopp #'s?

    Gomes/Nava/Kalish   Hard to find upside             A lot can go wrong here.   

    Iggy/Chiriaco  Great fielding/weak bats           Big loss on offense from M.A.

     

    Let's assume 3 out of these 5 do great: Ells, Pedey, Papi, Naps and Victorino, but 2 do as they have done in recent years on the low side. We'd need Middlebrooks and Salty to break out or some miracle from LF and SS to make this a fine offensive team.    

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Spot on

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I never meant you to agree with me. maybe I need to rethink my position now.

    ;)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Red Sox fans are incredibly spoiled at this point.  Any team that can go any combo of Ells, pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Middlebrooks, victorino and Salty 1 through 7 has a good line up.

    This isn't to say it is the greatest line up ever but those that act like this line up is bad really do not know what they are talking about.

    [/QUOTE]

    I respect your opinion.

    I do not think "spoiled" is the word.  I see it more as "passionate" and "demanding".   That's why Fenway Park has been sold out while stadiums like Tropicana Field and Oakland Colliseum are dead.  

    I believe us fans deserve to see a playoff-caliber team every year.  

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Red Sox fans are incredibly spoiled at this point.  Any team that can go any combo of Ells, pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Middlebrooks, victorino and Salty 1 through 7 has a good line up.

    This isn't to say it is the greatest line up ever but those that act like this line up is bad really do not know what they are talking about.

    [/QUOTE]

    I respect your opinion.

    I do not think "spoiled" is the word.  I see it more as "passionate" and "demanding".   That's why Fenway Park has been sold out while stadiums like Tropicana Field and Oakland Colliseum are dead.  

    I believe us fans deserve to see a playoff-caliber team every year.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In theory, yes, we should be playoff competitive every year, but not at the expense of never being a favorite to win it all. It seemed like that was the Sox startegy for years and years before 2004 & 2007.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Sorry, I never meant you to agree with me. maybe I need to rethink my position now.

    ;)

    [/QUOTE]


    You eventually had to trip over the truth in your dark world.

    (joking)

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Red Sox fans are incredibly spoiled at this point.  Any team that can go any combo of Ells, pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Middlebrooks, victorino and Salty 1 through 7 has a good line up.

    This isn't to say it is the greatest line up ever but those that act like this line up is bad really do not know what they are talking about.

    [/QUOTE]

    Never said it was bad, but many here are assuming most will have good years, when there is at least equal evidence that indicates many could have down years in 2013.

    [/QUOTE]

    I knew you didn't say bad.  I just don't know what people expect.  

    The line up as constituted gives the Red Sox a chance to win, you are correct that with down years and an injury or two it is quite mediocre.

    My point is that on paper it looks above average, and that this fan base has become incredibly spoiled in what they expect year after year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Red Sox fans are incredibly spoiled at this point.  Any team that can go any combo of Ells, pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Middlebrooks, victorino and Salty 1 through 7 has a good line up.

    This isn't to say it is the greatest line up ever but those that act like this line up is bad really do not know what they are talking about.

    [/QUOTE]

    I respect your opinion.

    I do not think "spoiled" is the word.  I see it more as "passionate" and "demanding".   That's why Fenway Park has been sold out while stadiums like Tropicana Field and Oakland Colliseum are dead.  

    I believe us fans deserve to see a playoff-caliber team every year.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Why do you not think this line up is playoff caliber?

    I agree with moon that the depth is not there.  one or two injuries and it goes from above average to quite mediocre.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lineup pretty much set; Time for batting order

    Nobody thought we had much depth last year, but we picked up Pods, and guys like Shopp, Ciriaco and Ross exceeeded many's expectation.

    It's not really the depth I am so worried about; it is the starters who seem to be platoon profiles playing FT.

    Besides having Iggy's weak bat in the 9 slot (which I am fine with due to his tremndous fielding at a key position) we have these other serious weaknesses:

    OPS from 2010-2012

    vs RHPs:

    Lava      .457

    Chiriaco .678

    Gomes   .692

    Victorino .715

     

    vs LHPs:

    Gomez  .559

    Salty    .597

    Nava    .621

    Lava     .627

    Kalish   .645

     

    Most of these guys should not be starting vs  "wrong-handed" pitchers, but as of now, I think we will see Victorino vs RHPs (.715). That's 2 guys with pretty poor OPS in the same line-up vs righties.

    Versus LHPs, D Ross does OK, but not as well as Shoppach had over the years. Gomes does very well vs lefties (.894 career), as does Victorino (.946 the last 3 years combined), but they are basically replacing much of what Cody Ross gave us last year (.1.010 vs LHPs in 150 PAs- best on the team).

     
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