LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    love pap but no way he takes less than 3 years 40M. we have to start saving somewhere. y not give it to bard for peanuts with a heath bell or madsen for 6-8M to set up. we're stuck with the fat toad jenks only for one more season and who's to say with his carerr literally riding on a good year, he wont stay away from the buffet to have a great year just as pap is doing right now. going forward with a bard-bell/madsen/isringhausen-albers-aceves-morales is still a pretty devastating bullpen core but with far more value plus we get a type a free agent after pap signs with the phillies, mets or angels. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    What in the world makes you think Heath Bell is going to sign for $6M - $8M to set-up in Boston? Or that the market will bring Papelbon a three year deal?

    I love the way people get ahead of themselves.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    I think Paps will get $50M/4 or more.

    I love Paps in Boston, but I don't see closer value as being that pricey. If we lose Paps over $2-3M a year, I want people to remember what I said about the Crawford signing restricting us in future years.

    With CC's money, we could have kept everyone but Drew and Scutty and signed all kinds of studs. 

    Reyes, Buehrle and Cuddyer/Swisher/Sizemore
    of
    JJ Hardy, Buerhle and Beltran
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]What in the world makes you think Heath Bell is going to sign for $6M - $8M to set-up in Boston? Or that the market will bring Papelbon a three year deal? I love the way people get ahead of themselves.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]LOOK THERE ARE TONS OF GOOOD SETUP MEN OUT THERE THAT WE COULD PAY TOP DOLLAR TO. and still get them for far less than what pap will cost. 3/40 is just papa's floor, the opening bid. coud go as high as 5 years and 80M. bard is the closer so the top thing's done. if we get noone, frankly i'm comfortable with giving the firm of albers-aceves and jenks one more go round, perhaps with bowden, rich hill or even bedard in the mix as well. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    Look Commie go back to the Pats boards
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    moon,

    that is one of your weakest arguments ever (unusual for you).  You seem to suggest that Crawford's money along with Scutaro's and Drew's money would get Reyes, Buehrle and Cuddyer or Sizemore.  I am not convinced of that.  Besides, Reyes is likely to get almost all of a Crawford type contract.  So you are really saying that Drew and Scutaro's salaries might garner both Buehrle and Cuddyer.  Don't see how Crawford prevents that, if it is somehow possible.  What he prevents is going after Reyes, perhaps (the Sox could still do that if they really wanted, but that would severly limit their budget for DH and closer). 

    You also ignore the fact tha twithout CC the Sox would desperately need a LFer.  The Sox had miserable production in CF and LF last year, and only slightly better than league average in RF.  The Sox had no idea Ellsbury would be so terrific out in CF, and no faith that Cameron, Nava, MacDonald, or Kalish could produce significantly better in LF.  I expect they were interested in getting Werth more than Crawford, until the Nationals went bonkers with their offer.  But then the Sox went out and got simply the most complete outfielder that was available (and better than any from the year before or likely the year after).
             
    What Crawford's contract infringes on mostly is the amount of money the Sox can throw at DH and closer, provided they take on another big contract.  But then, so does the money they spent on Gonzalez, and Beckett, and Lackey. In Crawford and Gonzalez the Sox have two of the top ten biggest annual salaries out there. But the Yankees and Phillies both have three players over the 20 mil/per. And both of those teams have a pitcher in that category (the Phillies have two-Lee and Halladay). The Sox could take on a third big contract if they fill a need. I am not sure SS is that need or should take up that kind of money. So I just don't see how Crawford is preventing the Sox from getting Reyes at all. Perhaps the thing preventing the Sox from signing Reyes is that he isn't worth the money he will be looking for.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    Papplebon's been abused as a "stupid redneck" by most Boston fans and media.He should play our ape GM and go to another team that bids equal or only slightly less. Boston does not deserve Papelbon, they deserve Wakefield closing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    As for Paps.  He has proven me all kinds of wrong this season.  I thought he would be a flop, and I hoped for him to be traded before he became a distraction.  But now I am leaning towards the idea that the Sox should sign him if they can, for the same amount they offered Mariano.  Paps has more of a chance of being worth that money and length of contract than Mariano, IMO.  And the Bard/Pap combo is great.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    However, there is no telling what Pap will get offered out on the open market.  That being the case, having Jenks, Albers, Aceves and Bard all back for next season is extremely important.  Hopefully they will get Hill back sometime during the season, and resign Wheeler for a similar contract.  That way, if they do lose Pap, they can go several ways, and not have to commit a whole lot of money to the reliever they sign to take Pap's spot on the roster (not necessarily his spot as closer).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]What in the world makes you think Heath Bell is going to sign for $6M - $8M to set-up in Boston? Or that the market will bring Papelbon a three year deal? I love the way people get ahead of themselves.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]


    this thread has a lot of material. its late, let me start by contributing that heath bell has said in the media, he will not take a contract to set up- anywhere for any amount. as a rental for the playoffs he would consider it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    one more thing. we dont know if bard can be THAT GUY. its partly a personality thing. paps always had THAT personality to be the 9th closer with 3 on and no out in the 9th for instance. bards a good pitcher. i dont think i would want to find out after pap is gone (if its in bard) without a proven closer in the fold (if i were making the decisions).

    dont break what's already fixed-and good (bard 8th, pap 9th). sign pap and papi. bring up ryan L. late aug. to see if he can hit mlb pitchers so we know what we have (as a hitter).
        figue out who we're going to play at short next year and beyond. will lowrie stay healthy most of the time? continue teaching plate discipline with reddick and improve his hitting offspeed pitches, prop him up, build his confidence and watch him continue to grow into an every day contributor. get kalish ready to be the #4 outfielder. decide on when/if ryan L comes up and transitions out tek.
    see if ells will sign before or after his contract ends. seems he is growing to enjoy his time here and doing some bonding.
        theo and henry on the record in the media this year saying they are afraid to  go over and pay th eluxury tax. i saw theo say it on video (could be pr., but he's on the record).

    ps, i dont think you lose a good player over 2-3 mill a year when your budget is 160+ mil unless you want to
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    If anything you let Paps go and sign a guy like Bell to take over the closers role while keeping Bard as the setup guy.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    he 88,
    that wouldnt be terrible. but why let paps go to begin with?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR! : LOOK THERE ARE TONS OF GOOOD SETUP MEN OUT THERE THAT WE COULD PAY TOP DOLLAR TO. and still get them for far less than what pap will cost. 3/40 is just papa's floor, the opening bid. coud go as high as 5 years and 80M. bard is the closer so the top thing's done. if we get noone, frankly i'm comfortable with giving the firm of albers-aceves and jenks one more go round, perhaps with bowden, rich hill or even bedard in the mix as well. 
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    Would we kick ourselfs in the butt  when Paps signs on with the Yankees? Imean even to have Paps beat us wearing those pinstrips.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    I think you offer him a 3 year deal..prob around 13 per plus incentives..
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR! : Would we kick ourselfs in the butt  when Paps signs on with the Yankees? Imean even to have Paps beat us wearing those pinstrips.
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    That's the other thing people have to consider, is that the Yankees could very well be in on Papelbon.  Mo has one year left on his deal. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR! : That's the other thing people have to consider, is that the Yankees could very well be in on Papelbon.  Mo has one year left on his deal. 
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    and i believe with last night, Mo now has 6 BS on the year..They would sign Paps in a heartbeat IMO...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR! : and i believe with last night, Mo now has 6 BS on the year..They would sign Paps in a heartbeat IMO...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, that's back-to-back bad outings by Mariano.  The home run by Abreu was really jerked.  He still has 5 blown saves...last night the game was tied so he gets the loss, not a blown save.  The guy turns 42 in a few months. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffh102082. Show jeffh102082's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    I dunno anymore if I am ready to see Papelbon leave. He's been pretty damn good for this team over the years and this season. Past couple years he was looking like he might be losing it a bit but every reliever goes through that. He's been very reliable this season only blowing one save.

    Redsox should just offer him a fair deal and if he wants to pursue the big payday like he has said before then let him go. They should def. fight to keep him and try to offer him what they believe is fair and just add the fact that this is a team built to succeed for more seasons so take it or leave it. 

    Bard is great but I think I am happy with him in the setup role to Papelbon closing it.   Unless Papelbon started blowing games on a consistent basis I would not mess with it. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    Frankly nobody knows where the closer market is going to go this off season. K-Rod sits out there as a huge cautionary tale, along with past signings like BJ Ryan. How much that tempers any combination of years and $$$ is yet to be seen.

    I am pretty sure that the RS approach is not black and white. They will be in on Paplebon because frankly he has proven he is worth being in on. He and Bard together are pretty special, and while Bard can probably replace him, replacing Bard the set-up monster won't be as easy.

    If the combination of $$$ and years exceeds the RS valuation, they will move on. They may force that issue by Winter Meetings so they aren't scrambling if the determine they need to walk.

    The RS are in a better position than some teams facing a great closer walking in that they have an heir apparent but that doesn't mean that role vacated by the new closer will be easy to fill with equal effectiveness. 

    As for dove tailing CC into this conversation, yes a huge contract like his does limit some of the other things you can do. Everybody even the NYY have spending limits. My guess is something is going to give, because I doubt the RS have a lot of stomach for doing long term deals with their closer and their DH. My guess is the aggressive signings of A-Gon and CC calculated that one or both of those large expenditures were going to reduced in 2012 and the immediate future there after.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosox0489. Show bosox0489's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!


      

     
       Are we           playing with your money?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR! : Would we kick ourselfs in the butt  when Paps signs on with the Yankees? Imean even to have Paps beat us wearing those pinstrips.
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]
    THEN WE'LL MARIANO AS OUR SETUP MAN. YANKS ARE STUCK SORIANO AND MO. Y WOULD PAP GO THERE TO SET UP. VERY CLEAR THAT HE DONT DO SETUP! sox must start by assuming they wont get him. worse case, u bring in heath bel for less money abd years with bard still as ur setup guy. there are lots of compatible options out there!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!

    In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LOVE PAP, BUT MUST MAKE BARD THE CLOSER WITH HEATH BELL OR RYAN MADSEN THE SETUP GUY NEXT YEAR! : and i believe with last night, Mo now has 6 BS on the year..They would sign Paps in a heartbeat IMO...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]
    no way they replace mo with soriano in the wings. BAD PR. he'll take the 3 y/35m if he opts out. also would consider joe nathan, a full year removed from his tommy john.. as a set up guy. mo would rather come to fenway as a setup guy than be humiliated in NY. hows that jeter or posada thing going, no way they alienate their fan base by having a sox like pap come in as his replacement with one more year left. 
     
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