Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    2012 Salary Numbers (37 players listed on 40 man roster)

    ***based on average annual salary + bonuses of player/ years***

                   (last year's salary and year of arb)

    Salty          $__?___  ($750K/ 1st Arb  out of 3 years)

    AGon         $22M

    Pedroia       $6.7M

    Scutaro      $6.0 M

    Aviles        $__?__  ($640K/ 1st Arb  out of  3 years)

    Youkilis     $10.3M

    Crawford   $20.3M

    Ellsbury     $ __?___ ($2.4M in ‘11/ 2nd Arb. year out of 3)

    Reddick     $__?___  ($417K/ pre arb)

    Iglesias     $2.1M

    D.Mac      $__?__  ($470K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years)

    Lowrie     $__?__  ($450K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years) 

    Kalish      $__?__  ($417K/ pre arb)

    Lavarn.    $__?___  ($??)

    Anderson $__?__  ($415K/ pre arb)

    Exposito   $__?__  ($414K/ pre arb)

    Tejada      $__?__  ($414K/ pre arb)

     

    Middlebrooks $_?_ ($?? / pre arb)

     

    Lin            $__?__  ($?? / pre arb)

    Pitchers:

    Beckett   $17M

    Lester       $6M

    Buch         $8.5M

    Lackey    $16.5M

    Dice-K       $8.7M

    Miller        $__?__ ($??/ 1st of 3 arbs)

    Doubront $__?__  ($417K/ pre arb)

    Weiland   $__?__  ($?? )

    Tazawa    $__?___  ($1.1M/ pre arb, then 2 arb yrs)

    Pimental  $__?___  ($414K/ pre arb)

     

    Bard          $__?__  ($505K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years)

    Aceves      $__?__  ($650K/ 1st Arb of 3 years)

    Jenks         $6M

    Albers       $__?__ ($875K/ 3rd Arb year out of 4)

    Atchison   $__?__ ($454K/pre arb)

    Bowden    $__?__  (417K / pre arb)

    Morales    $__?__  ($424K/ 1st of 3 arbs)

    R.Hill         $__?__ ($?? / pre arb)

    D. Britton   $__?__ ($ ??/ pre arb)

     

    Total: $130.1M already signed 

    (at average yearly salary of contract + bonus)


    Baseball Reference projects the 10 arbs we have will cost us about $31.5M

    The remaining 3 players assumed atavg pre arb cost would be about $2.2M


    The total payroll salary before any more signings...


    $163.8M Total Payroll Salary


    I'm not sure how or if the the pension contribution counts towards the luxury tax limit, but if it does not, then we only will have about...


     $14M to spend on upgrades and stay below.


    We may have to go above the threshold to really keep this team strong.


    (Sidenote: I am open to any corrections or adjustments needed concerning the payroll budget or pension contribution.)



     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Man, those $15 million plus salaries really add up in a hurry.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    One point that needs to be considered about the tax is that going over the threshold will not necessarily result in a large penalty, relatively speaking.  The tax rate I believe would be 40%.  So if they exceed the threshold by $5 million that would cost them $2 million in tax.  $2 million is not a large amount relative to the overall payroll or the revenues generated by the team. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    True, but do you know anything about pension contribution counting towards the $178M limit?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox:
    True, but do you know anything about pension contribution counting towards the $178M limit?
    Posted by moonslav59


    All I know is that there is an amount added for benefits.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    RS0407 was the expert, but I haven't seen him around here for over a year.

    I think he said it was about $10M, so if that is so, it means the threshold is really only about $168M, and we are only about $4M away from it after arb and pre-arb signings.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    There's no way that all 10 of our arb guys will be offered arb though.  That will free up some cash.  I don't expect any major signings, unless there is a trade to create more room (Youk to the A's in a Gio or Baily deal?).
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    There's no way that all 10 of our arb guys will be offered arb though.  That will free up some cash.  I don't expect any major signings, unless there is a trade to create more room (Youk to the A's in a Gio or Baily deal?).
    1) The arb guys we may not offer it to, were not going to make much anyways.
    2) The only guy I see not being offered arb is DMac, but he may be offered arb and then be traded.
    3) I doubt Oak will pay Youk's whole salary.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Important points on on 2012 CBA CBT:

    A. 2012 CBT capture date is not until December 12, 2012

    B. Average annual contract value for Players traded before December 12, 2012 are pro-rated

    C. Signing Bonuses for all MLB guranteed multi-year contracts are pro-rated over total years of contract

    D. Vesting Option Buyout payments for all MLB guaranteed contracts are computed as signing bonuses and are pro-rated over total years contract

    E. Team Player Benefit Costs are 1/30 of total MLB player benefit costs and do not amount to more than 1 to 2 basis points for CBT calculation

    F. Tax amount on excess of 178M has been lowered to 17% from 22.5%

    2012 Estimated before winter and spring and summer trades and FA contracts

    Agon  22M
    Crawford 20.28
    Beckett 17
    Lackey 16.5
    Youk 10.28
    DiceK 8.66 (Posting fee is not captured for CBT)
    Buch 7.48
    Pedroia 6.75
    Lester 6
    Jenks 6
    Scutaro 5.33
    Iglesias 2.06
    Tazawa 1.1   
    Atchison .614
    Reddick .505
    Doubrant .437
    Bowden .434
    Kalish .417
    Anderson .417
    Exposito .415
    Lavarnway .415
    Pimental .415
    Tejada .415
    Weiland .415
    Briton .325 
    Middlebrooks .325 
    Lin .325  = CBT Subtotal 134.899 (27)


    Ellsbury EA - 8
    Aceves EA - 1.75
    Bard EA - 1.75
    Salty EA - 1.75
    Lowrie EA - 1.25
    Morales EA - 1  CBT subtotal = 150.399 (33) + 2 (Player Benefits) = 152.399

    Potential Non-tender Profiles

    Aviles UIF/Bench
    Miller P/RP/Depth
    Mac OF/Bench
    Hill  RP/Depth
    Albers RP/Depth  5 back benchers = 38   

    Budget for non-tender roster spots/back benchers will be max of 5 - 6M = 158.399

    Red Sox have about 20M in status quo CBT space to fill following needs:

    DH
    Starting Pitcher
    Quality top tier Pen Arm
    Young RH slugging OFer

    Ortiz will soon find that he has no market beyond 2 years and around 20M. Ortiz will likely return to Red Sox on a 2 year contract or 1 year play for big year and FA arbitration plus and plus buyout (Ortiz pipe dreaming 4 to try and get 3 but will settle for 2)

    Ortiz CBT 2012 calculation amount will be about 10M to 14M. That leaves 6 to 10M for remaining 3 needs. Aceves needs to move to rotation, Bard to close, as that obviates the need to become InEsptein desperate and do something stupid like Lackey FA. Aceves slot needs to be replaced by best pen arm value in the 3-4 M range.

    Inepstein incompetent moves of Lackey and Crawford have butchered the budget for years to come.

    The Lackey mega-mistake leaves the Red Sox no option but to go with a bottom tier low cost dumpster starter acquired via trade or 1 to 2M pus incentives offers to the half dozen or more FA veterans not named Wakefield. That will net 2 or 3 bottom feeders to 1 MLB contract and 1 or 2 minors contracts.

    Cherry needs to grasp how critical it is to sieze the short trade window on Ellsbury and deal his 2 arby years and 8M for 2012, Lowrie and blocked propsects to take care of the young long term Rh slugging OFer and bottom feeder pitcher.

    Rotation Depth Chart:

    Beckett (if Sox summer sputter then this prima donna first CBT dump of 2012)
    Lester
    Buch
    Aceves
    Doubrant
    Dumpster Profile #1 via trade or FA 
    DiceK last half maybe
    Dumpster Prifle #2 via trade or FA (parked in AAA)
    Tazawa
    Weiland
    Wilson

    Most important hire other than gm will be pitching coach. Red Sox must invest innings and patience in farm profiles, and resist temptation to trade prospects for Santana and Haren and 20M a year.

    Bobby V is going to have to let the problem overpaid contract players know that the season is not 5 months long. He will need to push the dead weight under contract, and make sure not to put dead weight like Wastefield and Varitek back under contract. He will need to pick one of the producing everyday veterans like Pedroia to police his fellow Union beach bums. Pedroia should let Bobby know who needs to go this winter, and, if the time comes, who needs to be traded this summer. 

    InEpstein spent about a half a billion dollars without winning a playoff game in 3 years.
     
    Epstein is responsible for the players who threw Tito under the bus. Unfortunately, some have albatross contracts. 

    Bobby V. has a tough job. Cherry needs to step up, stop looking to FA like crack, and learn the art of selling high and trading.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Teams that make mistakes with players contracts experience pain as a result, just as those who do well are rewarded. But the luxury tax is not a solid wall remember, it's just one of many expensable items teams might have to deal with. I expect us to have to pay this season for the sins of our recent past, as well as from some bad luck to injuries, but I'm not overly concerned by it. Henry had a very nice year overall, and I'm quite confidant he can afford an extra $20 million or two.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    A quick recap of the tax rates under the old CBA and new CBA:

    Old 
    First time over cap 22.5%
    Second 30%
    Third or more 40%

    New 
    First time over cap 17%
    Second 30%
    Third 40%
    Fourth or more 50%

    There's also a 'reset' provision under which teams that don't exceed the cap for a year or more have the rate lowered again.  Not going to try to explain all the details of that.
     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Since I am not an authority on the competitive tax do's and don'ts. I'll merely add that in the big picture none of us know what this years budget for team payroll is. No disrespect intended Moon but your assumptions are all based on the premiss that they won't exceed the limit. If you're right, then we're in for another season of cross our fingers and hope for health and productive seasons from all of our core guys...

    At the heart of the payroll challenge is replacing the lost manpower of both Lackey and Matusuaka due to injury. Who are on the books for about 20M for the 2012 season. Again, not knowing if there's a provision in the tax that allows teams relief from salaries owed to players lost for an entire season? If both were healthy, we'd likely not be even discussing this topic...

    That said, I can't see Henry and Luccino wasting an entire season or two of prime performances from the core guys in the interest of saving 20M in payroll plus taxes if the right players present themselves. It's not like they don't have the revenues to support an increased payroll...

    time will tell...we'll soon find out just how aggressive they going to be and my guess is that they'll look to add payroll as a near team fix with a longer term reduction plan to stay at or below the competitive tax threshold...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox:
    1) The arb guys we may not offer it to, were not going to make much anyways. 2) The only guy I see not being offered arb is DMac, but he may be offered arb and then be traded. 3) I doubt Oak will pay Youk's whole salary.
    Posted by moonslav59


    1)  When you're talking about being so tight to the budget, every little bit helps. 

    2)  Miller, Hill, Aviles/Lowrie, and Albers are all going to make over $1M through Arb, and 4 of them will probably not be with the team in 2012.  I can't see the team carrying 2 utility infielders, so it wouldn't surprise me to see one of Lowrie/Aviles dealt.  Miller could potentially be tendered if the Sox plan on using him in the rotation, he'd be a cheap 5th starter option, but I can't overlook his control problems costing roughly $2M.  Hill is out for the majority of the year with TJ.

    3)  Why wouldn't they?  He's still a good value at 1B where he should be able to remain healthy.  I don't think a team would trade for Youk with the intention of keeping him at 3B full time.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    The thing that must be realized is that this team, as presently configured, cannot win a ring this season. That is unnacceptable especially in light of the shocking collapse of last season and the resources allocated. This is NOT some rebuilding year. The payroll is simply too high to not win, and so this is the perfect storm for requiring us to go all in to win. The bottom line is Toronto is on the verge of challenging the Sox+Yanks for division supremecy, if they spend like I believe they're going to this winter. We have significant holes to fill, and I believe we have no choice but to spend significantly. If we don't then we are squandering a large payroll on nothing. Of course, there's also that huge compensation we have coming for Theo.........
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    First, thank you softy for the information provided here. I double checked the few minor differences we had in in numbers of already signed players, and you got it right. I have said, I am not an expert on these matters and appreciate all the input I can get here.

    Important points on on 2012 CBA CBT:


    A. 2012 CBT capture date is not until December 12, 2012

    B. Average annual contract value for Players traded before December 12, 2012 are pro-rated

    C. Signing Bonuses for all MLB guranteed multi-year contracts are pro-rated over total years of contract

    D. Vesting Option Buyout payments for all MLB guaranteed contracts are computed as signing bonuses and are pro-rated over total years contract

    E. Team Player Benefit Costs are 1/30 of total MLB player benefit costs and do not amount to more than 1 to 2 basis points for CBT calculation

    F. Tax amount on excess of 178M has been lowered to 17% from 22.5%

    2012 Estimated before winter and spring and summer trades and FA contracts

    Agon  22M
    Crawford 20.28
    Beckett 17
    Lackey 16.5
    Youk 10.28
    DiceK 8.66 (Posting fee is not captured for CBT)
    Buch 7.48
    Pedroia 6.75
    Lester 6
    Jenks 6
    Scutaro 5.33
    Iglesias 2.06
    Tazawa 1.1   
    Atchison .614
    Reddick .505
    Doubrant .437
    Bowden .434
    Kalish .417
    Anderson .417
    Exposito .415
    Lavarnway .415
    Pimental .415
    Tejada .415
    Weiland .415
    Briton .325  
    Middlebrooks .325 
    Lin .325  = CBT Subtotal 134.899 (27)

    I was not aware that the players listed here after Iggy had contracts already for 2012. Usually some of these "pre-arb players" get minimal raises as Bard did last year. I think this number might be a million or two higher based on minor raises for the bottom 15 players.  Maybe the number might be more like $136M.


    Ellsbury EA - 8
    Aceves EA - 1.75
    Bard EA - 1.75
    Salty EA - 1.75
    Lowrie EA - 1.25
    Morales EA - 1  

    I'd say $15.5M here is just about right. I might have guessed Lowrie at $1M and Bard & Aceves at $2M, but it is close.


    CBT subtotal = 150.399 (33) + 2 (Player Benefits) = 152.399

    I'll take your word on the player benefits part and am happy it is lower than I expected. I'm curious where you found the information.

    Potential Non-tender Profiles

    Aviles UIF/Bench 
     I think he will be offered arb (his 2nd arb year) and like Lowrie, get about $1-1.3M by signing before arb.

    Miller P/RP/Depth
     I think they will offer arb as well, but am not quite sure of his status. I know they came to some kind of agreement this summer, but Cots has him arb eligible (2nd of 3 years) and Baseball Ref has him not listed. I really have no idea what he may make if he stays here. ($1.5-2M?)

    Mac OF/Bench
     This is the tough call. We need a RH'd bat in the OF badly, and before last year, he had very good splits vs LHPs. However, his fielding in RF is horrible and CF barely adequate. Since he is "pre-arb", I think he will be given a contract and perhaps traded or released if he down't make the cut in ST.

    Hill  RP/Depth
     Again, some confusion here. Cots does notlist what he made in 2011, has a blank for 2012, and lists arb3 under 2013. Baseball Ref does not have him listed at all. I am not sure he will be back, even if we have the option to "control" him for 2012 and beyond. Either way, his salary will not be much more than the lowest level player that replaces him on the 40 man roster.

    Albers RP/Depth  5 back benchers
     I think Albers will be offered arb (3rd of 4 years) and will be signed before arb for about $1M.

     = 38   

    Budget for non-tender roster spots/back benchers will be max of 5 - 6M = 158.399

    Agreed, but maybe more like $159M to $160M if we keep Miller.

    Then there are the Papi and Wheeler arbs or pre-arb deals to be made.

    Red Sox have about 20M in status quo CBT space to fill following needs:

    (Close enough)

    DH
    Starting Pitcher
    Quality top tier Pen Arm
    Young RH slugging OFer

    (Sidenote: Just curious, why you no longer consider catcher a "need", when you had wanted to pay Ramon Hernandez $3-4M to play here in 2012.)

    Ortiz will soon find that he has no market beyond 2 years and around 20M. Ortiz will likely return to Red Sox on a 2 year contract or 1 year play for big year and FA arbitration plus and plus buyout (Ortiz pipe dreaming 4 to try and get 3 but will settle for 2)

    Ortiz CBT 2012 calculation amount will be about 10M to 14M. That leaves 6 to 10M for remaining 3 needs. Aceves needs to move to rotation, Bard to close, as that obviates the need to become InEsptein desperate and do something stupid like Lackey FA. Aceves slot needs to be replaced by best pen arm value in the 3-4 M range. 

    By losing Paps and moving Aceves to the rotation, I'd say we will need 2-3 quality pen arms and a quality 4/5th starter. Out of those 3-4 slots, we will almost certainly have to "dumpster dive" for 1-2 of them, and maybe 3 if Papi gets $13-14M/1 as you suggest he may.

    Of course the other option is to let our offense suffer some by letting Papi walk, and hope that Lava and Youk at DH (actually and Aviles/Lowrie platoon at 3B when Youk DHs) can try and minimize the loss at DH, enough to offset the loss we will have on the pitching staff if Papi stays. Papi walking should also improve our fielding, roster flexibility, long term farm building (2 picks) and options when playing in NL parks.

    I want Papi back, but the no Papi choice under these financial circumstances looks like a viable option.


    Rotation Depth Chart:

    Beckett (if Sox summer sputter then this prima donna first CBT dump of 2012)
    Lester
    Buch
    Aceves
    Doubrant (Not good enough to trust in a big time competetor's rotation)
    Dumpster Profile #1 via trade or FA 
    DiceK last half maybe
    Dumpster Prifle #2 via trade or FA (parked in AAA)
    Tazawa (I see him as a better rotation option than Douby)
    Weiland
    Wilson


    ...Bobby V. has a tough job. Cherry needs to step up, stop looking to FA like crack, and learn the art of selling high and trading.

    "Stop looking..."? Doesn't that imply that he has spent on FAs or talked of spending big already? 

    He hasn't signed any FAs yet.




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    This will be an interesting off year for the Sox.  Given all of the great stats in this post by moon and softy...one would have to believe that we will see just how determined the FO is to swing the pendulum back in the right direction.  The Yanks will be up there as usual regardless of the luxury tax and hands down TB has the best pitching in the AL East and maybe even all of MLB...just lucky for the Sox and Yanks they tend to neglect their hitting.  Toronto has said they will spend big this off season and the AL East just continues to evolve into the toughest in MLB.  If the Sox fail to address the starting pitching with real pitchers and not low cost/high reward players...fail to fill the BP with quality relief pitchers...and less important acquire the power hitting RF replacement this could be a long year coming up.  Address those issues and they will rest atop the division again, fail and they could actually have a dog fight trying to stay out of 4th place in the division.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    If the Sox fail to address the starting pitching with real pitchers

    Beckett, Lester and Buch are real pitchers, and have the contracts to prove it. Aceves is an obvious better value as a starter, so that leaves one more starter slot plus the normal dumpster depth. 

    Would you like to revisit Lackey FA, Part II?

    Red Sox are paying about 130 million for Beckett, Lester and Buch. Perhaps it is time for them to actually finish a full season off the shelf with strong metrics. I want ownerships money back to them, if not.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Since I am not an authority on the competitive tax do's and don'ts. I'll merely add that in the big picture none of us know what this years budget for team payroll is. No disrespect intended Moon but your assumptions are all based on the premiss that they won't exceed the limit. If you're right, then we're in for another season of cross our fingers and hope for health and productive seasons from all of our core guys...

    No disrespect taken, but I have repeatedly stated that I am basing my assumption on us staying near the threshold, as we have nearly every year since Henry bought the team. We may go over this year, but I have seen nothing to indicate we will or will by a lot.

    At the heart of the payroll challenge is replacing the lost manpower of both Lackey and Matusuaka due to injury. Who are on the books for about 20M for the 2012 season. Again, not knowing if there's a provision in the tax that allows teams relief from salaries owed to players lost for an entire season? If both were healthy, we'd likely not be even discussing this topic...

    It's not like having a healthy Lackey and Dice-K would give us two sure quality starters, but your point is well taken. Let's just play along. Say we didn't need a 4/5 starter. We'd still need a Closer (or set-up if Bard closes), DH, RH'd RF'er, Set-up RP, and 6th starter-- all for about $20M based on softy's numbers. Still not real rosey.

    That said, I can't see Henry and Luccino wasting an entire season or two of prime performances from the core guys in the interest of saving 20M in payroll plus taxes if the right players present themselves. It's not like they don't have the revenues to support an increased payroll...

    If we go over by a significant amount in 2012, it is liekly we will be over for the next few years and pay the tax over and over, but I do agree that Henry will pay a tax if he thinks it is worth it, but it might be hard to convince him after being burned recently.

    time will tell...we'll soon find out just how aggressive they going to be and my guess is that they'll look to add payroll as a near team fix with a longer term reduction plan to stay at or below the competitive tax threshold...

    I think they may go over by $4-6M and try to have a few 1 year deals.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from javaukti. Show javaukti's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Is any or all of Lackey's salary covered by insurance?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox:
    1) The arb guys we may not offer it to, were not going to make much anyways. 2) The only guy I see not being offered arb is DMac, but he may be offered arb and then be traded. 3) I doubt Oak will pay Youk's whole salary.
    Posted by moonslav59


    1)  When you're talking about being so tight to the budget, every little bit helps. 

    True, but the difference between paying one of those arb guys $1M of someone else $450K is not a huge difference maker.

    2)  Miller, Hill, Aviles/Lowrie, and Albers are all going to make over $1M through Arb, and 4 of them will probably not be with the team in 2012.  I can't see the team carrying 2 utility infielders, so it wouldn't surprise me to see one of Lowrie/Aviles dealt.  Miller could potentially be tendered if the Sox plan on using him in the rotation, he'd be a cheap 5th starter option, but I can't overlook his control problems costing roughly $2M.  Hill is out for the majority of the year with TJ.

    Yeah, Hill will be gone, but Aviles can play OF and if Papi walks and Youk DHs half the time, we'll likely need Aviles and Lowrie. Until the Papi situation is settled, I doubt we trade either of them.

    3)  Why wouldn't they?  He's still a good value at 1B where he should be able to remain healthy.  I don't think a team would trade for Youk with the intention of keeping him at 3B full time.

    Oakland does not apy anyone over $12M (Youk's at $13M). They barely pay anyone over $5M.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox:
    In Response to  Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox : 1) The arb guys we may not offer it to, were not going to make much anyways. 2) The only guy I see not being offered arb is DMac, but he may be offered arb and then be traded. 3) I doubt Oak will pay Youk's whole salary. Posted by moonslav59 1)  When you're talking about being so tight to the budget, every little bit helps.  True, but the difference between paying one of those arb guys $1M of someone else $450K is not a huge difference maker. 2)  Miller, Hill, Aviles/Lowrie, and Albers are all going to make over $1M through Arb, and 4 of them will probably not be with the team in 2012.  I can't see the team carrying 2 utility infielders, so it wouldn't surprise me to see one of Lowrie/Aviles dealt.  Miller could potentially be tendered if the Sox plan on using him in the rotation, he'd be a cheap 5th starter option, but I can't overlook his control problems costing roughly $2M.  Hill is out for the majority of the year with TJ. Yeah, Hill will be gone, but Aviles can play OF and if Papi walks and Youk DHs half the time, we'll likely need Aviles and Lowrie. Until the Papi situation is settled, I doubt we trade either of them. 3)  Why wouldn't they?  He's still a good value at 1B where he should be able to remain healthy.  I don't think a team would trade for Youk with the intention of keeping him at 3B full time. Oakland does not apy anyone over $12M (Youk's at $13M). They barely pay anyone over $5M.
    Posted by moonslav59

    1)  By my count the difference was around $3M still, which could mostly cover Wheeler if he accepts arb.

    2) I wasn't aware Aviles can cover the OF, but that makes him a better fit.  Certainly there won't be any movement until the Papi situation is resolved though.

    3)  I named Oakland as an example, so while they may not be a team to pay Youk, someone could certainly take him on.  Oakland won't be making major moves any time soon.  They have some more pressing issues to address (i.e their stadium situation).

     
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    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    1)  By my count the difference was around $3M still, which could mostly cover Wheeler if he accepts arb.

    Fair enough. 

    2) I wasn't aware Aviles can cover the OF, but that makes him a better fit.  Certainly there won't be any movement until the Papi situation is resolved though.

    If Papi stays, one goes... Jed.

    3)  I named Oakland as an example, so while they may not be a team to pay Youk, someone could certainly take him on.  Oakland won't be making major moves any time soon.  They have some more pressing issues to address (i.e their stadium situation).

    I have mentioned dealing Youk several times. There could also be a 3rd team involved.
     
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    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox:
    Is any or all of Lackey's salary covered by insurance?
    Posted by javaukti


    It probably is, but that doesn't effect the tax limit.


     
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    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    Aren't we still paying Manny somthing like $2 mil. per year?
     
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    Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax Threshold and the Red Sox:
    Aren't we still paying Manny somthing like $2 mil. per year?
    Posted by UticaClub


    Yes, deferred payments, but no effect on luxury tax calculations which allocate salary costs over the service years.
     
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