Luxury Tax

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from thekid77. Show thekid77's posts

    Luxury Tax

    We keep hearing all of this talk about the FO not wanting to go over the luxury tax threshold, but this team is only a few parts away from being one that has a realistic chance to win a WS. If they bit the bullet and filled those holes with quality, even if it put them over the limit, wouldn't the revenue from a team that went deep into the playoffs more than offset the luxury tax payment?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    I think that's a great point.  But what moves would you do in order to incrementally  improve the roster where addding salary is your best option?
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    In Response to Luxury Tax:
    We keep hearing all of this talk about the FO not wanting to go over the luxury tax threshold, but this team is only a few parts away from being one that has a realistic chance to win a WS. If they bit the bullet and filled those holes with quality, even if it put them over the limit, wouldn't the revenue from a team that went deep into the playoffs more than offset the luxury tax payment?
    Posted by thekid77


    The issue isn't only the luxury tax payment, but also the revenue sharing credit that the Sox (and/or Yankees) would get for staying under the cap, which is in excess of $10M.  To me it doesn't look like the FO cares about paying a luxury tax, they just want to not have to pay at the 50% rate which is something they can avoid by going under the cap for a year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax:
    Cards won a WS with a lot less talent than the Sox.
    Posted by bobbysu



    Disagree with that one.  Cardinals had Pujols, Holliday, Fucal, Berkman, Molina, etc as well their starting pitching staffs have more talents than Boston's.

    Cardinal started out as a divisional title favorate until few pitchers, Pujols, Berkman, etc all have went on DL in the begining of the season, and then traded for Fucal along with few other players to make an upgrade to the team.  Then when everyone all came back healthy, they made a good run which that was why they won it all. 



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    In response to "Re: Luxury Tax":
    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax : Disagree with that one.  Cardinals had Pujols, Holliday, Fucal, Berkman, Molina, etc as well their starting pitching staffs have more talents than Boston's. Cardinal started out as a divisional title favorate until few pitchers, Pujols, Berkman, etc all have went on DL in the begining of the season, and then traded for Fucal along with few other players to make an upgrade to the team.  Then when everyone all came back healthy, they made a good run which that was why they won it all.  Posted by GoUconn13
    Their starting staff had more "talent" than Boston. Not even close, especially when they lost Adam Airtight. Lester, Beckett, Buchholz and Bard all have more "talent" than anyone they trotted out there not named Carpenter.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from thekid77. Show thekid77's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax:
    In Response to Luxury Tax : The issue isn't only the luxury tax payment, but also the revenue sharing credit that the Sox (and/or Yankees) would get for staying under the cap, which is in excess of $10M.  To me it doesn't look like the FO cares about paying a luxury tax, they just want to not have to pay at the 50% rate which is something they can avoid by going under the cap for a year.
    Posted by JB-3


    Okay, so there's more to it than just the luxury tax itself. Now the FO reluctance makes a little more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax:
    In Response to Re: Luxury Tax : Okay, so there's more to it than just the luxury tax itself. Now the FO reluctance makes a little more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
    Posted by thekid77


    Not a problem, it's a little publicised detail about the new CBA.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    2012 Salary Numbers (based on average annual salary + bonuses of player/years)

      (ARBs to go in Red)

    Papi           $_____ ($12.65M or $16M)

    Salty          $2.5M

    Shopp        $1.35M 

    AGon         $22M

    Pedroia      $6.7M

    Aviles        $1.2M

    Youkilis     $10.3M

    Crawford   $20.3M

    Ellsbury     $8.05M

    Sweeney   $1.75M 

    Iglesias     $2.1M

     
     

    Punto     $ 1.5M 

     

    D.Mac      $____  ($470K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years) 

    Kalish      $____  ($417K/no arb)

    Lavarn.    $_____  ($   )

    Anderson $____  ($415K/ no arb)

    Exposito   $____  ($414K/no arb)

    Tejada      $____  ($414K/no arb)

    __________________________________ 

    Beckett   $17M

    Lester       $6M

    Buch         $8.5M

    Lackey    $16.5M

    Dice-K       $8.7M

    Miller        $1.04M (Nonguaranteed)

    Doubront $____  ($417K/no arb)

    Tazawa    $_____  ($1.1M in '11 / pre-arb '12, then 4 (?) arb yrs)

    Pimental  $_____  ($414K/no arb) 

    Mortensen $_____ ($ ??)

    Bard          $1.625M

    Aceves      $____  ($900K or $1.6M)

    Jenks         $6M

    Bailey       $____ ($3.35M or $4.7M)

    Melancon $_____($421M in '11/ pre-arb '12, then pre-arb or 1 of 3/4 arbs)

    Albers       $1.075M

    Atchison   $_____ ($454K, then prearb and 3 arb years)

    Bowden    $____  ($417K / no arb)

    Morales    $ 850K 

    _______________________________________________ 

    Total Signed (Avg Annual salary including bonus): $145M (21 players)

    Plus 16 nonarb players ($14 x ~$450K= $7.2M) 

    New Est. Total: $152.2M before 3 arbs

    Now the 3 Arbs left to sign:

    Papi $12.65M or $16M (or agree to a deal)

    Bailey  $3.35M or $4.7M (or agree to a deal)

    Aceves $900K or $1.6M (or agree to a deal)

    Assuming no side deal:

    Total arb cost: $ 16.9M to $22.3M

    I'm going to assume Bailey agrees to $4.1M before arb and Aceves gets $1.3M. That adds $5.4M and a new est total of $157.6M before Papi.

    If Papi gets $12.65M, the total is $170.3M. If Papi gets $16M, it's $173.6M. I'm hoping we can work something out with a 2013 team option/buyout that will lessen the tax hit for 2012, maybe something like this: 2012: $13M, '13 team option $11M with a $1.4M buyout. That makes the salary count as $14.4M/2 or a $7.2M AVV. Let's assume Papi agrees to a deal similar to my suggestion. Our new est budget... 


    Luxury Tax Payroll Budget Total: ~$164.8 (before player benefit payment).

    Now, add the player benefits. I have heard $2M and $9M. I'm not sure which one it is. 

     

    TOTAL:  ~$167M if the benefits payment is $2M.


                    ~$174M if it is $9M.


    That means we will probably have between $4 and 11M to spend. That number could come down if Lackey's deal is altered due to the injury clause. His AVV could go from $16.5 to $13.8M. (Subtract about $2.7M from our payroll budget for tax purposes). It could also go down if we cut Miller loose from his nonguaranteed 1.04M deal. I'm not sure how much he would get if we did so. There is also the option of cutting any player who wins their arb deal (Papi?), but let's assume that won't happen.

    If we only have $4M to spend, we might be able to get Cody Ross or another starter (Oswalt doubtful), but not both.

    If the number is $11M, we actually could probably get both Oswalt and Ross, leaving us with this 25 man roster:

    SP: Beckett, Lester, Buchholtz, Oswalt, Bard, Doubront (Dice-K in June-July)

    RP: Bailey, Melancon, Aceves, Morales, Albers, Tazawa (Jenks)

    C: Salty/Shopp

    DH: Papi

    1B: AGon

    2B: Pedey

    SS: Iggy/Punto (see OF: Aviles)

    3B: Youk

    LF: Aviles (& Ross/Sweeney from RF) (DMac?)

    CF: Ells

    RF: Ross/Sweeney

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    Moon,

    Your Papi suggestion actually would not reduce the tax hit for the Sox in 2012 by as much as you claim.  While the Sox would benefit from the lower 2012 salary, it would still be calculated as $13M hit for 2012, with a hit for the option amount or buyout amount in 2013, depending on the actions taken after this year.

    Unless this is different with the lock date for AAV computation being after the season.....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Luxury Tax

    Disagree with that one.  Cardinals had Pujols, Holliday, Fucal, Berkman, Molina, etc as well their starting pitching staffs have more talents than Boston's. 

    Cardinal started out as a divisional title favorate until few pitchers, Pujols, Berkman, etc all have went on DL in the begining of the season, and then traded for Fucal along with few other players to make an upgrade to the team.  Then when everyone all came back healthy, they made a good run which that was why they won it all.  

    "Everyone" did not come back healthy. Once Adam Wainwright was lost for the season, they were never the favorites, and he never came back.

    They had a closer by committee.

    They had the best NL OPS.
    They were middle of the pack in pitching in the NL.

    At the start of 2011, Berkman was not viewed as a major force.

    The point is, look where StL was in terms of expectations on opening day 2011, and look at the projected Sox 2012 roster and tell me honestly you'd favor the 2011 Cards.
     
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