Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to AL34's comment:

     

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    Well then, they can spend another $30,000 tomorrow and get someone else.

     



    My question is have any of these low risk gambles ever worked outnfor the Red Sox. The only one I can think of was Cody Ross and he was not a minor league deal but much more expensive.

     

     




     

    I may be wrong about minor league deals or ML deals here, but I think here are some recent ones...

    Pedro Ciriaco, Mauro Gomez,  Aaron Cook, Darnell McDonald, Scott Atchison

     



    Also David Ortiz and Tim Wakefield.

     



    I may be wrong, but wasn't Luis Tiant a minor league signing way back when?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    No, but he may make up for it with unprecedented speed from that position. I'm not sure how well he fields 3B, but if he is better than Middlebrooks, we may move Midds to 1B and Cecchini's power at 3B is less of a differential.

     

     


    Name me one team that is looking for, or has every looked for speed from the 1B position? The answer is probably none.

     

     



    Paul Goldschmidt (but I see your point).  1B who can run should play RF. 

     

    Would it be such a terrible thing to break a paradigm every now and then. 

    I realize the reasoning behind using 1B as your position of great power, but if Cecchini can hit 15-18 HRs, get a bunch of DBLs, and also steal 50 bases, is he really a downgrade from a .245  35 HR hulk at 1B?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    Well, maybe Lyle Overbay will make the squad.  That way, when Jason Bay (now with the Mariners) reaches first, and Lyle Overbay is playing first, Overbay appears over Bay on the TV screen.  




    made me laugh.  thanks.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    No, but he may make up for it with unprecedented speed from that position. I'm not sure how well he fields 3B, but if he is better than Middlebrooks, we may move Midds to 1B and Cecchini's power at 3B is less of a differential.

     

     


    Name me one team that is looking for, or has every looked for speed from the 1B position? The answer is probably none.

     

     



    Paul Goldschmidt (but I see your point).  1B who can run should play RF. 

     

    Would it be such a terrible thing to break a paradigm every now and then. 

    I realize the reasoning behind using 1B as your position of great power, but if Cecchini can hit 15-18 HRs, get a bunch of DBLs, and also steal 50 bases, is he really a downgrade from a .245  35 HR hulk at 1B?

     



    Yes.  RBI's are twice more correlated with power than they are w/ BA.  Every year, Yankees finish somewhere in the 3-6 range for batting average, first in HRs , first in runs scored.

     

    You cannot have enough power.  

    Now if you have a masher at 3B, LF, RF, you can get away w/ a high OBP, athletic, defensive 1b.  However, the Red Sox, as currently constructed, do not have sufficient team power to get away with a 15 HR first baseman.

    You really need 2 30 HR guys, and 3 other 20 HR guys (or elite pitching)

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    I'd have preferred someone who could also play the OF, but this is decent enough insurance.

    More importantly, though, I hope that after getting Napoli down to one year Ben is already looking for a 1B solution for 2014 and beyond...unless the team believes Shaw will eventually be the answer, there isn't much there in terms of organizational depth.

     



    There are a number of players who may be moved to 1B soon: (One of two from) Cecchini, Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Lavarnway, and maybe more...

     

     




    Cecchini hasn't really shown the pop you'd want from a 1B so far...

     

     



    No, but he may make up for it with unprecedented speed from that position. I'm not sure how well he fields 3B, but if he is better than Middlebrooks, we may move Midds to 1B and Cecchini's power at 3B is less of a differential.

     

     


    Name me one team that is looking for, or has every looked for speed from the 1B position? The answer is probably none.

     



    It happens

     

     

    How manu people realize Bill Buckner had more career SBs than HRs?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    How manu people realize Bill Buckner had more career SBs than HRs?

    Bill never had more than 18 HRs, and he had over 14 only 4 times in 22 seasons.

    He had 31 and 28 SBs in his best 2 speed years in the mid 70's..

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    Now if you have a masher at 3B, LF, RF, you can get away w/ a high OBP, athletic, defensive 1b.  However, the Red Sox, as currently constructed, do not have sufficient team power to get away with a 15 HR first baseman.

    You really need 2 30 HR guys, and 3 other 20 HR guys (or elite pitching)

    I agree, but if Cecchini can hit 15-18 HRs, it's not like he has zero HRs. (AGon had only 18 last year.)

    Cecchini has 55 2B+3B in about 650 PAs on the farm  (.446 Slg%). That can drive in a lot of runs as well, but he will not likely be batting 3-6th.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    Moon - 15-18HR? He hit a total of 3 in Lowell in 2011 and 4 in Greenville (in over 500AB). Dream on.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Moon - 15-18HR? He hit a total of 3 in Lowell in 2011 and 4 in Greenville (in over 500AB). Dream on.



    He's got the body type to develop a lot more power as he ages though.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Now if you have a masher at 3B, LF, RF, you can get away w/ a high OBP, athletic, defensive 1b.  However, the Red Sox, as currently constructed, do not have sufficient team power to get away with a 15 HR first baseman.

    You really need 2 30 HR guys, and 3 other 20 HR guys (or elite pitching)

    I agree, but if Cecchini can hit 15-18 HRs, it's not like he has zero HRs. (AGon had only 18 last year.)

    Cecchini has 55 2B+3B in about 650 PAs on the farm  (.446 Slg%). That can drive in a lot of runs as well, but he will not likely be batting 3-6th.



    Its about the rest of our team.  If in 2014 David Ortiz is still playing at a high level, Middlebrooks is hitting 25+, we find a couple of corner outfielders (internally or externally) hitting 25+, then I would be open to the idea of a non power hitting first baseman.

    However, as Ive said.  You need to have either mashers in teh middle, or 20 HR hitts 2-7 in your lineup.  Power is so important.  I think its the second most important element to team construction (behind only starting pitching).

    Out of the 5 teams with the most highest slg % last year (NYY, Tex, Mil, Col, LAA) , 4 were also top 5 of runs scored.  The only team that wasnt in the top 5 (Col) was sixth.

    The Yankees were 8th in BA last year, but were first in HR, 2nd in runs scored.  San Fran was fifth in average, but 12th in runs scored.  

    HR > Average.

    The problem with average is many things need to go right to create one run.  You need a hit.  Then a steal.  Then another hit.  Or a hit with 0 outs.  A sacrifice.  Another hit.

    HR's are instant runs (and often more than one at a time).

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    Overbay?  Good luck to him - I think his stay will be short and uneventful.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    Overbay apparently has an opt-out clause if he does not make the team after Spring Training...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Overbay?  Good luck to him - I think his stay will be short and uneventful.

    Pretty much agree with you. With Milwaukee and Toronto he was a doubles machine, now it's close to the end of the line for him. His numbers with Arizona last year weren't bad but at Atlanta, where he had a cup of coffee and finished the season, he had 2 hits in 20 at-bats with 8 strike outs in his role as a pinch hitter. Maybe it's just me but I have a hard time thinking that the front office has done anything exciting this off-season.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Now if you have a masher at 3B, LF, RF, you can get away w/ a high OBP, athletic, defensive 1b.  However, the Red Sox, as currently constructed, do not have sufficient team power to get away with a 15 HR first baseman.

    You really need 2 30 HR guys, and 3 other 20 HR guys (or elite pitching)

    I agree, but if Cecchini can hit 15-18 HRs, it's not like he has zero HRs. (AGon had only 18 last year.)

    Cecchini has 55 2B+3B in about 650 PAs on the farm  (.446 Slg%). That can drive in a lot of runs as well, but he will not likely be batting 3-6th.

     



    Its about the rest of our team.  If in 2014 David Ortiz is still playing at a high level, Middlebrooks is hitting 25+, we find a couple of corner outfielders (internally or externally) hitting 25+, then I would be open to the idea of a non power hitting first baseman.

     

    However, as Ive said.  You need to have either mashers in teh middle, or 20 HR hitts 2-7 in your lineup.  Power is so important.  I think its the second most important element to team construction (behind only starting pitching).

    Out of the 5 teams with the most highest slg % last year (NYY, Tex, Mil, Col, LAA) , 4 were also top 5 of runs scored.  The only team that wasnt in the top 5 (Col) was sixth.

    The Yankees were 8th in BA last year, but were first in HR, 2nd in runs scored.  San Fran was fifth in average, but 12th in runs scored.  

    HR > Average.

    The problem with average is many things need to go right to create one run.  You need a hit.  Then a steal.  Then another hit.  Or a hit with 0 outs.  A sacrifice.  Another hit.

    HR's are instant runs (and often more than one at a time).




    The top 5 scoring teams last year were also among the top five in OBP.   The argument might be made that OBP has a better relevance to scoring that slugging, and than home runs. 

     

    For example, the 2007 White Sox were second in the AL in home runs, yet were last  in scoring.  Why?  Lowest OBP in MLB that year...

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    My statement was missing a few key words but everyone got the point but you. I should have said that the average minor league contract at AAA in recent years at Pawtucket was $30,000. That was the going rate. The context was about Overbay's contract and not the entire organization. It is important to read the entire thread before posting your one-liners.

     




     

     

    I could post the Pawtucket contracts right now.....your numbers are off. By alot.'

    then again. You are off. By alot.



    The rate actually 60000k to boot.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

     

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    My statement was missing a few key words but everyone got the point but you. I should have said that the average minor league contract at AAA in recent years at Pawtucket was $30,000. That was the going rate. The context was about Overbay's contract and not the entire organization. It is important to read the entire thread before posting your one-liners.

     




     

     

    I could post the Pawtucket contracts right now.....your numbers are off. By alot.'

    then again. You are off. By alot.

     



    The rate actually 60000k to boot.

     



    $600000K or $60K?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Moon - 15-18HR? He hit a total of 3 in Lowell in 2011 and 4 in Greenville (in over 500AB). Dream on.



    He has 7 HRs in his first 650 PAs at ages 20-21. It's hardly a stretch to think he can reach 15.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    Sounds like if he performs in spring training, we have our back up first baseman. I know he did okay last year, until he was put in a pinch hitting role with the Braves.

     




    Why would you want a sub whose role is backup firstbaseman, esp. when your starting 1B is expected to play vs LH and RH pitching?    Assuming the Sox keep 12 pitchers, they will have 4 subs, right?  Among the 4:

     

    • One must be a catcher (Ross)
    • One must be a middle infielder (Ciriaco?)
    • One must be a (LHH/SHH) OF (Nava?  I hope not) and/or an OF that can field well. 

    That leaves you with one open bench role at most.  Would you really choose a backup 1B over another outfielder or infielder?  Who can't run?  Or field a more challenging position?  Mid-game on the West Coast, and even the game after, if Napi got hurt, Salty or Papi could play first while a Gomez is flown out.

    That's one of the reasons smart GMs look for flexible players....switch hitters, multi-positional players, Aceves-like swingmen pitchers, etc....it's a virtual expansion of rosters made so tight by the increase in pitching staff numbers.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to notin's comment:



    $600000K or $60K?

     




    Both.  It's 600 million Zimbabwean dollars.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Overbay?  Good luck to him - I think his stay will be short and uneventful.




    Sort of like most major leaguers on every team.

     

    And I don't think anyone expects anything much from Overbay.  The ceiling here is one or two key pinch hits...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to ADG's comment:


    No, but he may make up for it with unprecedented speed from that position. I'm not sure how well he fields 3B, but if he is better than Middlebrooks, we may move Midds to 1B and Cecchini's power at 3B is less of a differential.

     
    Name me one team that is looking for, or has every looked for speed from the 1B position? The answer is probably none.



    That's probably true.  But it doesn't invalidate the value of a 1B with speed.  Traditionally teams look for corner players with power. Why?  Because up the middle there is a greater need for fielding i.e. speed and reflexes so to balance your team you generally look for power elsewhere. 

    It reminds of the silly argument that you mustn't have 3 LHH OFs. Absurd.  If your other starters are predominantly LHH then it'd be a problem.  But in a predominantly right handed world with mainly RH pitchers, you want your main batting order to have 5 or 6 left handed hitters....does it matter much where they play in the field?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    i like the overbay sgnning...back up 1B. what more do we want? he's a solid vet. and we needed a back up...we are good to go.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    Here's the flip side:

    League leaders in HRs:

    2003 -- TEX, didn't go to post season

    2004 -- CWS, didn't go to the post season

    2005 -- TEX, didn't go to the post season

    2006 -- CWS, didn't go to the post season

    2007 -- MIL, didn't go to the post season

    2008 -- CWS, went

    2009 -- NYY, went and won WS

    2010 -- TOR, didn't go to the post season

    2011 -- NYY, went

    2012 -- NYY, went

    In the last ten years, the heaviest HR hitting team in all MLB missed the playoffs 6/10 times.

    Power is overrated.

     

     



    Wonder How Many Were Solo Shots,.....................

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lyle Overbay Signed to a Minor League Deal by Red Sox

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    i like the overbay sgnning...back up 1B. what more do we want? he's a solid vet. and we needed a back up...we are good to go.



    We might need an OF'er who can platoon with Gomes (and maybe Victorino every now and then as well). Maybe Nava- maybe not.

     

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