MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    yeah Bill I hear you. however, I was there in the grandstands many a night during the impossible dream year which fell short and did not bring a WS Championship to Boston. Dick Williams was great but Tito has two rings to his credit and I don't give a damn what anybody out there says that the sox won inspite of Tito Francona.

    just my .02cents pal.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    I'm with Hammah on this one, Bill. 

    Loved Dick Williams and the buzz cut.

    The success of the current BOS franchise is traced directly back to 1967 - do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

    It was Yaz, of course, the last man to win the Triple Crown...but Dick Williams was a huge part of that, too.  He reinvented the team, and baseball, in Boston.

    So this is not about taking any love away from Dick Williams, but Tito does have two rings.

    Y'know, Yaz mentioned how much DW got out of Jose Tartabull. I saw that throw on TV when it was made. Amazing. Without that throw, there is no pennant on the last day. There is no way Tartabull should have been able to make it, but he did.  The baseball gods smiled upon us that year.





    As usual, I digress...


     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    How about leaving it at this...in 1967 Dick Williams had the greatest season ever by a Red Sox manager.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
    He won 2 in Oakland yes. When they lost Tony C. in August, I thought this was it. He still brought them to WS. I'll take Williams over Tito.
    Posted by bobbysu


    It depends on the type of team you have.

    Williams excelled at instilling discipline in young players and teaching them about the game and what it takes to win. He had great knowledge of the game. But he wasn't a manager for veterans. He didn't respect the players or at least show them respect. Just being a hard-azz all the time doesn't mean you're a good manager. You have to be able to relate to the players, which is why he always wore out his welcome. Tito is in his seventh year in Boston and likely will be here indefinitely. Williams' stints were 3 years, 3 year,  parts of 3 years in Calif (took over for half a season, had one full year then just over half a season), 4 1/2 seasons and just over two seasons.

    No matter how knowledgeable you are, if the players start tuning you out, what good are you.

    Tito is good with young players in bringing them along, showing patience, putting them into situations where they can succeed, but he's also much better with veterans. This has nothing to do with coddling players and has everything to do with simply respecting them. Sure he has his faults. Everyone does. 



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
    He won 2 in Oakland yes. When they lost Tony C. in August, I thought this was it. He still brought them to WS. I'll take Williams over Tito.
    Posted by bobbysu


    Shaughnessy (FWIW), claims that '67 was the most significant season is RS history, not '04, because it put them on the map after a long stretch of ineptitude.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    posted at 7/8/2011 11:04 AM EDT
    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=8af9b526bd1a59a3691f2949d300e5a3&plckUserId=8af9b526bd1a59a3691f2949d300e5a3">
    Posts: 3735
    First: 5/30/2008
    Last: 7/8/2011
    How about leaving it at this...in 1967 Dick Williams had the greatest season ever by a Red Sox manager.  


    now your talking! I totally agree. 67 was the year that I graduated high school. it was the greatest summer I ever had as a sox fan because I had a cousin that worked at fenway and he always got me tickets. we practically lived in the grandstand behind the duggout. Tony C! what could have been.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ANONMD08. Show ANONMD08's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    67 was the first year I followed the Red Sox. It was a great team and a great year only to fall short against a Cardinal team that had Bob Gibson as it's ace and a speedburner in Lou Brock. Williams did a great job.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    Comparing Williams and any of today's managers is like comparing apples and oranges.  No matter how good Williams was, that style does not work anymore.  Managers used to be able to manage by fear and intimidation.   That went out the window with free agency and big money long-term contracts.  

    Showalter may be the current manager closest to that style and he hasn't won a title.  You have a limited shelf-life managing like that these days.  In fact 2 of his teams won right after he left.  Baltimore started playing better when they picked him up but now that he's in his 2nd yr there, they seem to have plateaued or regressed.
     
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    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
    He won 2 in Oakland yes. When they lost Tony C. in August, I thought this was it. He still brought them to WS. I'll take Williams over Tito.
    Posted by bobbysu


    i think most who follow the game seriously would also take williams over 'cona.
    the HOF definitely did.
    also, it appears the yaz has selective memory syndrome; he was the major force in dick williams not being rehired by yawkey.
    yawkey treated yaz like a son and if yaz didn't like williams, good-bye dick.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!! : i think most who follow the game seriously would also take williams over 'cona. the HOF definitely did. also, it appears the yaz has selective memory syndrome; he was the major force in dick williams not being rehired by yawkey. yawkey treated yaz like a son and if yaz didn't like williams, good-bye dick.
    Posted by the_yazzer


    Sorry Bill I have to disagree, Dick Williams was well respected as a manager but not so much as a person.  He was a tough manager to play for who had one great year in Boston.  Terry has won two WC's and may have another one soon.  I know you need talent as a manager and on the field to win but I just don't see Williams as our greatest manager.

    Players didn't really enjoy playing for Williams like they do Terry because of his demanding nature.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    '67 was the year I really became a professional baseball fan. I loved that impossible dream team, and I have a lot of respect for Dick Williams as well as Darrell Johnson, the next manager to bring the Sox to the World Series. The greatest Sox manager ever though? I have to go with hammah et al on this one. It has to be Terry. Not only has he won two championships, he has 8 years on the job too. Nobody lasts that long managing the Red Sox.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    Siestafiesta took the words right out of my mouth.

    ...and it was painful especially when the thumbs passed by my tonsils!

    Today's managers have to be part babysitter. part PR man. Strategy is almost irrelevant in the AL , since the DH rule. They have bench coaches to confide in and pitching coaches to handle the pitching staff. The manager seems more like a figurehead for the coaching staff then a dugout general. His main job seems to be his postgame speeches.

    If Dick Williams was still alive and managed today he would be a dinosaur.

    Which is not a bad thing...in my mind.

    But in the baseball world of 1967, he was definately "the man!"
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
    Comparing Williams and any of today's managers is like comparing apples and oranges.  No matter how good Williams was, that style does not work anymore.  Managers used to be able to manage by fear and intimidation.   That went out the window with free agency and big money long-term contracts.   Showalter may be the current manager closest to that style and he hasn't won a title.  You have a limited shelf-life managing like that these days.  In fact 2 of his teams won right after he left.  Baltimore started playing better when they picked him up but now that he's in his 2nd yr there, they seem to have plateaued or regressed.
    Posted by siestafiesta
    Great take and in fact Williams had limited shelf lives wherever he worked even in the good "old school" days.

    BOS - 3 seasons

    OAK - 3 seasons

    CAL - 3 seasons

    MON - 4 seasons

    SDP - 4 seasons

    SEA - 3 seasons

    The best ever discussions are always fun but hard to come to any conclusion about. And every argument of this type will end up with individual bias in naming that "best" person.

    What Williams accomplished was unique in that he took a team that had historically been so bad, that had a lot of emerging talent and took them further than anyone could imagine in a year of extreme parity at the top of the AL. His team's success set in motion a renaissance for the RS who had gone from the story in town from the late 30's to early 50's into less than lovable losers. In that regard Dick Williams could be called the grandfather of RS Nation.

    But while many fans hammer Francona endlessly in Boston he is having a historic run here. He is now in his 8th season as the RS manager, which in his industry and this market is in and of itself a remarkable achievement. Only Joe Cronin will have managed the RS longer than Tito. Only Joe McCarthy has a high WPCT out of managers with multiple years managing the RS. He has won 2 WS titles. His currently club only has one player that started for his 2004 WS team. He has managed through a rebuild on the fly. He handles the media and modern players with grace.

    But so soon after Williams passing (a childhood hero of mine) I'd rather not focus on whether he was the greatest RS manager and rather just remember he was a great RS manager. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!


    No.

    Loved Dick Williams, loved the '67 Sox, I was 9 and remember the whole thing.  An incredible accomplishment.

    However 2.5 years total with the '67 team making the WS does not compare to what Tito has done since '04. 2 WS? All the playoff runs?  Media pressure that Williams never heard of?  And Williams' hard-a$$ style went over great in 1967, but would have been worthless with primadonnas like Pedro and Manny.

    Let's not overrate Dick just because he passed. No one gets close to what Tito accomplished as a Red Sox manager over the last 8 years.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!! : i think most who follow the game seriously would also take williams over 'cona. the HOF definitely did. also, it appears the yaz has selective memory syndrome; he was the major force in dick williams not being rehired by yawkey. yawkey treated yaz like a son and if yaz didn't like williams, good-bye dick.
    Posted by the_yazzer


    Ah yes, the "if you don't agree with me you don't 'follow the game seriously' argument."


    I do love the smug arrogant attitude instead of a coherent argument.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaytf25. Show jaytf25's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    Even Bill Lee said that Williams was fair and had a key to his doghouse. Not with Zimmer. Once you were in, no key to get out.
     
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    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
      40 + YEARS LATER, EVEN YAZ  SAYS HE WAS THE BEST HE EVAAAA PLAYED FOR !!  
    Posted by Bill-806


    Bill, my man, I discount Yaz' view for two reasons:
    • All too many people will tell you how great things used to be....either in the "sure, polio was rampant but at least we didn't have rap music" sense, or the Joe (2B) Morgan "If keep saying how great other players were in the 70s it will make me look even better" sense.
    • Yaz' managers weren't exactly the Murderers' Row of skippers, were they?
    That said, I am a big buyer of DW....he won when he "should have" and exceeded expectations with THREE other teams.



     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    In Response to MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!:
      IN 1967 HE TURNED A PRO TEAM INTO A SPIRITED BUNCH THAT WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND THEIR COLLECTIVE SKILLS AND THEN WENT ON AND MANAGED THE SAME WAY AT EACH STOP !!  WHAT SAY YOU ????
    Posted by Bill-806


    A remarkable job.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, DICK WILLIAMS WAS THE BEST RED SOX MANAGER, EVAAAAAA!!!!

    Great manager, but sure knew how to wear out his welcome.  Give me Francona. 
     
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