Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Bottom of the ninth with bases loaded and 2 outs...That pitch was too close to take.
    Posted by jrh1194


    Actually AGON was going to swing, he decided it was too close, but then his mind played a trick that often happens. You see a pitch that is acting like a screw ball and is diving or darting away from you and away from the plate going to the outside corner, but going there in such a way the ball looks like it's 6 inches outside. He tried to protect the plate, albeit half-way, but in his mind it was just too far outside. Should he have thought to go with the pitch and try like hell to foul it off...probably, yes. But as was mentioned, he was hammered inside on three previous pitches. It was an impossible pitch for AGON and really for most any batter. If he swung, the best he could have done maybe was foul it off or tap it to third. It just was a great pitch, a pitcher's pitch that few can hit. Outside part of the plate after going inside, inside, inside...great work by Mo, tip my hat to him. Umpire? It was close enough, he called it, no complaints.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Actually AGON was going to swing, he decided it was too close, but then his mind played a trick that often happens. You see a pitch that is acting like a screw ball and is diving or darting away from you and away from the plate going to the outside corner, but going there in such a way the ball looks like it's 6 inches outside. He tried to protect the plate, albeit half-way, but in his mind it was just too far outside. Should he have thought to go with the pitch and try like hell to foul it off...probably, yes. But as was mentioned, he was hammered inside on three previous pitches. It was an impossible pitch for AGON and really for most any batter. If he swung, the best he could have done maybe was foul it off or tap it to third. It just was a great pitch, a pitcher's pitch that few can hit. Outside part of the plate after going inside, inside, inside...great work by Mo, tip my hat to him. Umpire? It was close enough, he called it, no complaints.
    Posted by dannycater


    The borderline strike likely appeared to him to be more outside than it might have been because he was so far off the inside pitches. Mo could have gone inside again, and that unto itself splits the plate in a hitter's mind, allowing the pitcher greater access.

    BTW: Who was UR last post directed to?
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    I think Kim's OP was about this at-bat, on Tuesday.
    Posted by slomag


    Thank you, Slomag. They still feel the need to turn this into a Agon at bat thread because it's easier to explain. Even though my post clearly stated what I was talking about, and I put another post up saying they were talking about a different at-bat, they still pretend not to understand.

    IMO (maybe not yours), there are no objective Yankee fans actually here. They just demand that Sox fans be objective on their own board. It's all an illusion with them -- and their aliases. lol

    I really appreciate you taking the time to put this post up.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:


    Thank you, Tom. Another poster with ***** (nerve). :)
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    As for statistical splits guy, you know if you can figure out a way to make Crawford produce the way AGON DOES AND HAS DONE ALL SEASON V. THE ENTIRE MLB...then by all means rip AGON all you want. Mostly you look like a deustchland bag for trying to rip the AL's top hitter this season.
    Posted by dannycater


    You took the words out of my mouth. BTW; it's MLB's top hitter, who should be largely beyond criticism; the credit should go to the pitcher, not the other way around. MO is starting to pitch to the RS backwards.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    At some point I would think MLB clubs would grow tired of the Mariano double standard and present the league with the overwhelming evidence on this issue.....I mean can all the other clubs not meet and put together a power point presentation to email to Mr. Selig? 
    Posted by Cain-Reaction


    Actually, not a bad idea. We could probably be facing Mariano with the season on the line. It's no small thing. Everyone can worship Rivera when he's in the HOF, not while he's still the closer for our #1 rival. It just doesn't make sense.

    It will never happen, though.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : There it is, captured in its full glory. 
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    Yes. And he was kind enough to post it.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    Kim - since you were kind enough to mention my name and explain that you were not commenting specifically on the Gonzalez at-bat; I ask that you reread my statement. All I said was when viewing pitches from the view of the CF camera alone, it will not give you a true representation of how the pitch crossed the plate. You see, I wasn't mentioning the Gonzales at bat either. As for Mo - he is going to get many calls because he never shows up an umpire and it is a rare day when he is way off the target. All three starters in Philly get the same treatment as does a bunch of others. A couple of them happen to where the Sox uniform as well. As for taking called balls and strikes out of the umpires hands, it is never going to happen.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    How can you put this up after Slomag's post? What CF camera? You Yankee fans are the kings of the "I don't know what day it is" posts. Why do you all pretend you have no idea what anyone is talking about when you don't want to answer about a specific issue. I'm talking about the Mariano/Lowrie at bat, which weren't even close calls. Stop generalizing and tell us all what a supposedly "objective" Yankee fan thinks.

    As I've said, no one should get calls because of anything like "not showing up an umpire", or "they earned it". That's BS. Is that fair to the batter? To the opposing team? Umpires should call balls and strikes with no agenda, or find another job. And for you to say they will never eliminate umpires calling balls and strikes is horrifying.

    Btw, I never met a Yankee fan who EVER wanted anything changed about the umpires in the game, or that wanted instant replay for game changing calls. hmmmm
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    Meanwhile, and FWIW, it was a 5-2 game, and Mo had Salty struck out (based on the rules), despite the HBP, which was the reason for him being awarded 1st base. Of course, you wouldn't see a mention of calls that go the RS way.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : How can you put this up after Slomag's post? What CF camera? You Yankee fans are the kings of the "I don't know what day it is" posts. Why do you all pretend you have no idea what anyone is talking about when you don't want to answer about a specific issue. I'm talking about the Mariano/Lowrie at bat, which weren't even close calls. Stop generalizing and tell us all what a supposedly "objective" Yankee fan thinks. As I've said, no one should get calls because of anything like "not showing up an umpire", or "they earned it". That's BS. Is that fair to the batter? To the opposing team? Umpires should call balls and strikes with no agenda, or find another job. And for you to say they will never eliminate umpires calling balls and strikes is horrifying. Btw, I never met a Yankee fan who EVER wanted anything changed about the umpires in the game, or that wanted instant replay for game changing calls. hmmmm
    Posted by kimsaysthis


    I mentioned it yesterday on the "inches" thread; more fiction.  hmmmmmmmmmm
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    i will start off by saying the pitch to gonzo was borderline but he should have been protecting and should not have put himself in that situation by swinging at balls earlier in the count. the umpires for the sox/yanks series were terrible. but the calls that stand out the most were game 1 and game 3 when rivera was on the mound. during both appearances there were pitches that were not even remotely close to being strikes called strikes. now as i have heard some you mention, a pitcher with rivera's reputation gets those calls just based solely on who he is. and somehow that has become accepted in baseball that certain pitchers get calls based on their reputation. no pitcher deserves to get pitches that would be normally be called balls called strikes based on reputation. mariano rivera should get the same strikezone as every other pitcher in the mlb. enough with the reputation bs. and as someone mentioned in another post rivera in particular has been a huge benefactor of this discrepancy in officiating. for years he has been getting calls that most pitchers dont. it has become especially noticable during the past few years because he has become much more hittable and the only way to enable him to continue to be the great mariano rivera is to give him called strikes that in reality were balls. he relies soley on control and pitch location to get batters out. he does not have "blow it by you" stuff. so he has to hit his spots or else he will get hit hard. game 1 and game 3 of the recent series between the sox and yanks was a perfect example of this strike zone discrepancy. pitches that were a good 4-6 inches off the plate were called strikes. pitches that were virtually unhittable because of how far off the plate they were. such a poor performance in officiating should not be tolerated by major league baseball. and on somewhat of a sidenote, why the f**k is rivera allowed to wear number 42? no player in the mlb should allowed to wear a number that has not only been retired but also belongs to a historical figure by the name of jackie robinson. i dont care how good rivera is, i dont care if he is the greatest closer of all time, no one should be allowed to wear that number. especially not someone who plays for a classless organization like the yankees. 
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    I thought the pitch Burnett threw to Papi the big curve was a strike, the one before Granderson made the nice catch if it's too close to take don't take it
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : How can you put this up after Slomag's post? What CF camera? You Yankee fans are the kings of the "I don't know what day it is" posts. Why do you all pretend you have no idea what anyone is talking about when you don't want to answer about a specific issue. I'm talking about the Mariano/Lowrie at bat, which weren't even close calls. Stop generalizing and tell us all what a supposedly "objective" Yankee fan thinks. As I've said, no one should get calls because of anything like "not showing up an umpire", or "they earned it". That's BS. Is that fair to the batter? To the opposing team? Umpires should call balls and strikes with no agenda, or find another job. And for you to say they will never eliminate umpires calling balls and strikes is horrifying. Btw, I never met a Yankee fan who EVER wanted anything changed about the umpires in the game, or that wanted instant replay for game changing calls. hmmmm
    Posted by kimsaysthis

    totally agree with your post. its nice to see someone else who does not take the homer approach to posting on these boards and actually gives an honest opinion. 

     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : How can you put this up after Slomag's post? What CF camera? You Yankee fans are the kings of the "I don't know what day it is" posts. Why do you all pretend you have no idea what anyone is talking about when you don't want to answer about a specific issue. I'm talking about the Mariano/Lowrie at bat, which weren't even close calls. Stop generalizing and tell us all what a supposedly "objective" Yankee fan thinks. As I've said, no one should get calls because of anything like "not showing up an umpire", or "they earned it". That's BS. Is that fair to the batter? To the opposing team? Umpires should call balls and strikes with no agenda, or find another job. And for you to say they will never eliminate umpires calling balls and strikes is horrifying. Btw, I never met a Yankee fan who EVER wanted anything changed about the umpires in the game, or that wanted instant replay for game changing calls. hmmmm
    Posted by kimsaysthis


    First off, my initial comment on the CF camera was way before Slomag's, so you need to just calm yourself. Read your own thread from beginning to end before taking your shiny sword to attack.

    And I was not talking about any specific at bat. My comment was a generalization of the view point of the main TV cameral which is in CF. I did not see the Lowerie at bat so I cannot and will not comment.

    As for Mo getting calls - I am sure he does and as my last comment stated, so do many other pitchers. And the same goes for hitters as well depending on their reputation. If Ted Williams didn't swing at close pitches, many umpires would give him the benefit of the doubt and not call a borderline strike. It has been part of the game since its inception. How exactly do you want to cange this. Should the eye in the sky turn red and the umpires go review the called ball/strike? How do you propose any changes to this. I know one person mentioned something like this.

    Your need to try and turn this in the unwaivering favortism that Yanks receive is way off the mark. And your wanting to challenge Yankee fans on this is ridiculous. Because we certainly know that if it was a total reversal of the situation and a Sox player received the benefit of a bad call, you would be defending it and calling out Yankee fans for even questioning it.

    Last month of the season and Yanks and Sox are in a virtual tie for first place - baseball as it should be. Relish in the rivalry and respect it as well.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox



    Do you see pitch number five in the lower left hand corner of the strike zone?
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Do you realize how stupid you sound for your information Mariano has been wearing #42 since day one it was only a few years ago MLB "retired Jackies#42 Mariano along with another former player who I can't remember were alowed to keep wearing #42 until they retired do your research before making a post like this
    Posted by CHEIN


    Mo Vaughn was one of them.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cain-Reaction. Show Cain-Reaction's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : First off, my initial comment on the CF camera was way before Slomag's, so you need to just calm yourself. Read your own thread from beginning to end before taking your shiny sword to attack. And I was not talking about any specific at bat. My comment was a generalization of the view point of the main TV cameral which is in CF. I did not see the Lowerie at bat so I cannot and will not comment. As for Mo getting calls - I am sure he does and as my last comment stated, so do many other pitchers. And the same goes for hitters as well depending on their reputation. If Ted Williams didn't swing at close pitches, many umpires would give him the benefit of the doubt and not call a borderline strike. It has been part of the game since its inception. How exactly do you want to cange this. Should the eye in the sky turn red and the umpires go review the called ball/strike? How do you propose any changes to this. I know one person mentioned something like this. Your need to try and turn this in the unwaivering favortism that Yanks receive is way off the mark. And your wanting to challenge Yankee fans on this is ridiculous. Because we certainly know that if it was a total reversal of the situation and a Sox player received the benefit of a bad call, you would be defending it and calling out Yankee fans for even questioning it. Last month of the season and Yanks and Sox are in a virtual tie for first place - baseball as it should be. Relish in the rivalry and respect it as well.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    I think every major league team should have to use umpires behind the plate with the Yankees being the exception.  Some sort of computer system should be used to call balls and strikes for the Yankees, the umpires have become to helpful in searching for calls in order to assist the Yankees.

    I also challenge anyone to find game and produce the pitch selection/strike zone in which Papelbon won the game with calls off of the plate.....you can't find one because it does not exist.  Papelbon never gets calls off the plate like Mariano does....never.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : I think every major league team should have to use umpires behind the plate with the Yankees being the exception.  Some sort of computer system should be used to call balls and strikes for the Yankees, the umpires have become to helpful in searching for calls in order to assist the Yankees. I also challenge anyone to find game and produce the pitch selection/strike zone in which Papelbon won the game with calls off of the plate.....you can't find one because it does not exist.  Papelbon never gets calls off the plate like Mariano does....never.
    Posted by Cain-Reaction

    Yanks are also allowed free check swings that are called strikes on other teams.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    More fiction; if anything, MLB clubs for years have been complaining about the bias the RS get at Fenway; since I believe umpire calls are part of the game, good or bad, I'm only bringing this up because of the spew above. It sounds like these cranks have a built in pathetic excuse should things not go their way this year.
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    Great pitchers get calls.  We all know the strike zone "moves", and hitters have to adapt to balls being called strikes that way.  It is part of the game. 

    I thought some of CCs pitches, according to the gamecast zone, were WAY off the plate.  But knowing this was being called consistently, batters have to respond.  Again, it is part of the game.  

    Gonzo may have had a point about the ball being called a strike when other pitches there were not.  But in my opinion, he should have tried to foul it off.  I would not take one that close knowing Rivera was the pitcher, and it WAS the end of the game.  

    You can't win them all.   
     
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    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Yanks are also allowed free check swings that are called strikes on other teams.
    Posted by bald-predictions


    I agree...the Sox never get any calls
     
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