Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]Great pitchers get calls.  We all know the strike zone "moves", and hitters have to adapt to balls being called strikes that way.  It is part of the game.  I thought some of CCs pitches, according to the gamecast zone, were WAY off the plate.  But knowing this was being called consistently, batters have to respond.  Again, it is part of the game.   Gonzo may have had a point about the ball being called a strike when other pitches there were not.  But in my opinion, he should have tried to foul it off.  I would not take one that close knowing Rivera was the pitcher, and it WAS the end of the game.   You can't win them all.   
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    See JE's post above.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]Great pitchers get calls.  We all know the strike zone "moves", and hitters have to adapt to balls being called strikes that way.  It is part of the game.  I thought some of CCs pitches, according to the gamecast zone, were WAY off the plate.  But knowing this was being called consistently, batters have to respond.  Again, it is part of the game.   Gonzo may have had a point about the ball being called a strike when other pitches there were not.  But in my opinion, he should have tried to foul it off.  I would not take one that close knowing Rivera was the pitcher, and it WAS the end of the game.   You can't win them all.   
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    You are being too rational  (and correct). The umpires did a less than perfect job in that series. Alot of questionable calls, but they were questionable for both teams. The final pitch to AGon could have been called either way (no matter who was pitching). When the pitch is that close and the bases are loaded with 2 out in the 9th, why take the pitch and leave it up to the umpire to decide. At best you have a 50/50 chance when you leave it up to the ump. Hopefully it will be a differant story next. Enough with all the hysteria already.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cain-Reaction. Show Cain-Reaction's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    As I have said earlier I challenge anyone to produce a game in which Papelbon got calls off of the plate....nobody can because it does not exist.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : I think every major league team should have to use umpires behind the plate with the Yankees being the exception.  Some sort of computer system should be used to call balls and strikes for the Yankees, the umpires have become to helpful in searching for calls in order to assist the Yankees. I also challenge anyone to find game and produce the pitch selection/strike zone in which Papelbon won the game with calls off of the plate.....you can't find one because it does not exist.  Papelbon never gets calls off the plate like Mariano does....never.
    Posted by Cain-Reaction[/QUOTE]

    LOL. So true.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]Great pitchers get calls.  We all know the strike zone "moves", and hitters have to adapt to balls being called strikes that way.  It is part of the game.  I thought some of CCs pitches, according to the gamecast zone, were WAY off the plate.  But knowing this was being called consistently, batters have to respond.  Again, it is part of the game.   Gonzo may have had a point about the ball being called a strike when other pitches there were not.  But in my opinion, he should have tried to foul it off.  I would not take one that close knowing Rivera was the pitcher, and it WAS the end of the game.   You can't win them all.   
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    It has nothing to do with Agon. The post was about the Mariano/Lowrie at bat. That's just the Yankee fans trying to change the subject to something they feel more comfortable discussing.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cain-Reaction. Show Cain-Reaction's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    This thread has gotten way out of hand.  Mariano is the only closer to get calls off the plate and the OP provided undisputable statistical evidence to support this and nobody can come forth showing any game in which Papelbon has gotten a call off of the plate...therefore this a clear advantage for the Yankees and yet the Sox are still 11-4 against them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]Zac doesn't know what day it is, Jessey didn't see that at bat, Mikey left when I asked him to explain that at bat and not the Agon at bat, Babe is MIA as well. The same guys that are all over you when you say anything about the Yankees here. These are your "objective" Yankee fans who some posters feel it is their right to come to a Sox board and keep everyone real and honest. LMAO  What a group.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Show me where you asked me to explain anything.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : What wrong? You didn't know how to spell "town"?  And when was the last time anyone referred to themselves as being in "boogietown" anyway. Did you just get here from a time machine from the 70s or whenever people said that? lol I'll ask you the question right now. What is your explanation for the Mariano/Lowrie at bat where two pitches, in a row I believe, were called strikes that were waaaaay off the plate?  And, btw, there were other outrageous calls in that game as well, but you're probably better off just sticking to one topic at a time.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]
    What the hell is "boogietown"  what are you even talking about?  I live in the Bronx...do your homework.
     

    As for the at bat, I'll echo what some other Sox fans have said here.  Each umpire has a different strike zone and it goes both ways.  I saw many pitches that I thought CC was getting squeezed on in the first game, just as I'm sure some Sox fans thought Lackey was as well. You know the Sox have gotten some favorable calls, Im sure Papelbon has from time to time........you act as if the Sox throw nothing but pure strikes...you're just whining as usual.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : What the hell is "boogietown"  what are you even talking about?  I live in the Bronx...do your homework.   As for the at bat, I'll echo what some other Sox fans have said here.  Each umpire has a different strike zone and it goes both ways.  I saw many pitches that I thought CC was getting squeezed on in the first game, just as I'm sure some Sox fans thought Lackey was as well. You know the Sox have gotten some favorable calls, Im sure Papelbon has from time to time........you act as if the Sox throw nothing but pure strikes...you're just whining as usual.
    Posted by mikeyintheboogiedown[/QUOTE]

    Oh, I'm sorry you actually meant mikey in the boogie down. What the hell does that mean? Are you saying the Bronx is called boogie down?

    This is not about a strike zone, the pitches were waaaaaay outside and nowhere near the plate. So funny that no Yankee fan seemed to be able to comprehend the question. And adding all the Sox info doesn't throw me off. I'm used to Yankee fans changing the subject when you ask them a question. That's why I keep asking it, and ignoring the rest of the nonsense. lol
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Oh, I'm sorry you actually meant mikey in the boogie down. What the hell does that mean? Are you saying the Bronx is called boogie down? This is not about a strike zone, the pitches were waaaaaay outside and nowhere near the plate. So funny that no Yankee fan seemed to be able to comprehend the question. And adding all the Sox info doesn't throw me off. I'm used to Yankee fans changing the subject when you ask them a question. That's why I keep asking it, and ignoring the rest of the nonsense. lol
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Has Papelbon ever gotten some pitches?  I'd even go out on a limb and say Papelbon has probably gotten pitches further from the strike zone than that. It happens, its baseball there are human umpires, the number of balls and strikes called in the history of the game must be mindboggling....if you want to change to a computerized system than write to MLB and let them know.

    As for the Bronx, do your own homework.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Has Papelbon ever gotten some pitches?  I'd even go out on a limb and say Papelbon has probably gotten pitches further from the strike zone than that. It happens, its baseball there are human umpires, the number of balls and strikes called in the history of the game must be mindboggling....if you want to change to a computerized system than write to MLB and let them know. As for the Bronx, do your own homework.
    Posted by mikeyintheboogiedown[/QUOTE]

    See? That's changing the subject again. I'm not asking for your overall view of baseball....wait....OK, I just had to stop because I was laughing so much.  I'm talking about a specific at bat between Mariano and Lowrie. The graphic is up on this thread. You can just look at it, and then let's see if you can talk about that specific topic. k?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : See? That's changing the subject again. I'm not asking for your overall view of baseball....wait....OK, I just had to stop because I was laughing so much.  I'm talking about a specific at bat between Mariano and Lowrie. The graphic is up on this thread. You can just look at it, and then let's see if you can talk about that specific topic. k?
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    That graphic says they were outside another graphic may say they were closer.  The general perception is that they were outside....fine it happens and if it happens to Paps like it has before you would not complain about it and everyone on this forum knows that.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cain-Reaction. Show Cain-Reaction's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : That graphic says they were outside another graphic may say they were closer.  The general perception is that they were outside....fine it happens and if it happens to Paps like it has before you would not complain about it and everyone on this forum knows that.
    Posted by mikeyintheboogiedown[/QUOTE]

    Spreading lies and false propoganda doesn't change facts.  Mariano routinely gets balls off the plate called strikes and Papelbon never has and there is no evidence to prove that he ever has.  Why all the lies and Yankee smoke-n-mirrors?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : First they were waaaaaaaaaay outside. Second, I love the fact you added another graphic may say they were closer. As for Paps, I think another poster challenged you to find anytime Pap got a strike called on a pitch like that. FTR, you actually have a few posts, along with your pal Zac, on another thread complaining that Sox fans don't seem objective enough for you two. You are both, apparently, waiting for Sox fans to be more objective on that thread. Isn't that hilarious?  I think so. If you're able to still get Sox fans to listen to your cries about being objective, that would also be hilarious. That goes for Zac as well.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]
    Are you saying that Papelbon never gets pitches called for strikes that should be balls? I just want to be clear.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    Oh Robbie Cano with a 2 RBI double!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : Thank you, Slomag. They still feel the need to turn this into a Agon at bat thread because it's easier to explain. Even though my post clearly stated what I was talking about, and I put another post up saying they were talking about a different at-bat, they still pretend not to understand. IMO (maybe not yours), there are no objective Yankee fans actually here. They just demand that Sox fans be objective on their own board. It's all an illusion with them -- and their aliases. lol I really appreciate you taking the time to put this post up.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    My pleasure :)

    I don't expect Lowrie to get border-line calls against Rivera, but those two pitches were criminal.  The Gonzalez strike looked low to me, but it was in the K-Zone on mlb.com.  

    Regarding Yankee fans, my advice would be don't take anything too personally.  IMO, even the most heated arguments on this board are 50% tongue-in-cheek.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : My pleasure :) I don't expect Lowrie to get border-line calls against Rivera, but those two pitches were criminal.  The Gonzalez strike looked low to me, but it was in the K-Zone on mlb.com.   Regarding Yankee fans, my advice would be don't take anything too personally.  IMO, even the most heated arguments on this board are 50% tongue-in-cheek.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Agree with all points.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    ... If anybody got calls in the series it was CC ... balls off the plate consistsently called strikes.  But he is CC ... and has earned that. ...
    Posted by soxmeister


    i really do not understand this kind of thinking...it's bs!
    1) rules should be called the same regardless of who' playing
    2) human error is fine if the players make them, not when anyone else does

    the only reason there are referees/umps in sports is because you cannot expect objectivity from players if they have to call their own game. letting the biased player call it will probably lead to fights or at least long delays. referees/umps are just a band aid fix, to get calls right. letting them exercise their own bias defeats the purpose.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

     morning folks..lets ask ourselves, other than ALL HP umps calling pitches the way we growing up were told was a strike, is there REALLY a way to fix this that will satisfy EVERYONEand not just who we think it should or shouldn't benefit?..btw there have been as many bad calls on the bases too..
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    and while i get Kim's point, those balls to Lowrie were off the plate..but IMO this shouldn't be solely about Mo, throughout that series there were pitchers on both teams that did and didn't get calls me personally, i thought Lackey and Logan got squeezed some...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : No that is untrue, only the Yankees and especially Mariano get calls off the plate and the OP proved that with factual evidence.
    Posted by Cain-Reaction
    check the G1 thread there were posts about Lackey not getting some calls as well as Lackey himself reacting to some 2 strike pitches he didn't get..
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from edi5386. Show edi5386's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

      Rivera has a 2.04 era while giving up only 7 walks in 53 innings while striking out 51.  While it might appear that his strikes on the outside of the plate are balls they are for the most part strikes.  They appear to be off the plate because he throws so many cutters inside to batters.  If you have followed Mariano's games this year you will notice he has adjusted by throwing more to the outside of the plate as his cutter has at times been flat at times. Maybe the pitch to Lowrie was a bit off the plate but so what. As for the bat against Gonzalez the third strike was clearly a strike right on the outside lower corner.   the fact is that he never throws pitches that are wildly off the plate.  This works to his advantage as umpiires all know of his savant like control.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:
    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox : i really do not understand this kind of thinking...it's bs! 1) rules should be called the same regardless of who' playing 2) human error is fine if the players make them, not when anyone else does the only reason there are referees/umps in sports is because you cannot expect objectivity from players if they have to call their own game. letting the biased player call it will probably lead to fights or at least long delays. referees/umps are just a band aid fix, to get calls right. letting them exercise their own bias defeats the purpose.
    Posted by seattlepat70


    That's a great post. And I completely agree.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox

    In Response to Re: Mariano Rivera Against the Sox:

    and while i get Kim's point, those balls to Lowrie were off the plate..but IMO this shouldn't be solely about Mo, throughout that series there were pitchers on both teams that did and didn't get calls me personally, i thought Lackey and Logan got squeezed some...
    Posted by jete02fan


    I made a post just weeks ago, before the Yankee series, where I said when Mariano needs a strike, he just throws it outside and gets the call. I said anyone who didn't believe me can just watch a Yankee game in the 9th inning and see it for themselves. After the Lowrie at bat, I thought those pitches were even more outrageous than any I've seen -- and he still got the call.

    As I've said, I'm not a fan of "he earned it". It's not fair to the batter, and it's not fair to the opposing team. You can't put a pitcher above anyone else playing in the game. And it certainly shouldn't happen in a playoff game -- my biggest concern. If the umpires have agendas like that, they shouldn't be umpires. IMO  After all, they are based in New York, and have been around a long time. IMO it seems that the longest-running umpires get the biggest games. That puts them in Sox/Yankees games. I'm sure they've developed some relationships over the years as well. And now Torre is, apparently, the head of MLB. How do you think complaints will turn out? They just seem to hold all the cards.

     
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