Mark My Words............

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

     1) The organization regrets trading him and 2) Lucchino implied there would be a significant deal.


    Let's hope so. Ellsbury and Lowrie and Weiland and 1 other position player blocked prospect in a 3 team deal for
     
    Hanley plus 6M payment on 2012 Hanley + lower tier starting pitcher 1 to 2M cost for 2012 for lower tier starting pitcher

    Hanley to LF, Crawford to RF and Kalish and/or Reddick to CF

    Aceves or Bard to starter and the other to closer

    Lower tier starter to bottom of rotation

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    Why the world Marlins want to eat up money for Hanley????


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    For saving 16 to 20M on Hanley v. Ellsbury 2012 and 2013, that's why.  6M for Hanley leaves at least 8M saved on the deal, and it removes one more final giant balloon payment off Hanley deal in 2014. Red Sox need the 2012 payments for 2012 CBA bean counting purposes. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    In Response to Re: Mark My Words............:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mark My Words............ : What makes you think the organization regrets trading him?  Josh Beckett was a vital cog in a world championship.  Right there, no regrets.  And Hanley, while a good bat, is a mess in the field, a mediocre OBP guy, and a headcase.  I doubt the organization is too beat up about moving him.  They knew they were shipping a future star.  but, you have to give to get.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Yes we made out good with both Beckett and Lowell, but I don't think the RS ever thought HM would turn out as good as he has been. He may be a head case now after being in FL for 6 years.....not sure he was when he left Boston.
    The regret really comes from not having a SS since Nomar left, and while Hanley is not a great SS, he is certainly as good defensively than anyone else we have tried to put there. Offensively, no one comes close to what he can do.
     
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    Re: Mark My Words............


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    In Response to Re: Mark My Words............:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mark My Words............ : Yes we made out good with both Beckett and Lowell, but I don't think the RS ever thought HM would turn out as good as he has been. He may be a head case now after being in FL for 6 years.....not sure he was when he left Boston. The regret really comes from not having a SS since Nomar left, and while Hanley is not a great SS, he is certainly as good defensively than anyone else we have tried to put there. Offensively, no one comes close to what he can do.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Scutaro is a better shortstop than Ramirez.
     
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    Re: Mark My Words............

    In Response to Re: Mark My Words............:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mark My Words............ : Scutaro is a better shortstop than Ramirez.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    A little better FPCT, but a lower RF. I guess if you strictly look at metrics, one might conclude this. But Scutaro has a noodle for an arm and just can't get to as many balls as the speedy Ramirez.

    Errors/G: Scut .10; HM .13. But look at the chance diff. 4.03 to 4.17 per game.
    Ramirez will get to more balls.

    I guess what it comes down to is who would you rather have at SS? A 35 y/o scutaro or a 27 y/o Ramirez?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

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    In Response to Re: Mark My Words............:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mark My Words............ : A little better FPCT, but a lower RF. I guess if you strictly look at metrics, one might conclude this. But Scutaro has a noodle for an arm and just can't get to as many balls as the speedy Ramirez. Errors/G: Scut .10; HM .13. But look at the chance diff. 4.03 to 4.17 per game. Ramirez will get to more balls. I guess what it comes down to is who would you rather have at SS? A 35 y/o scutaro or a 27 y/o Ramirez?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Apples and oranges.  Scutaro is signed for one year at fair market price.  Hanley would be multi-year at superstar inflated price.  Sure, in a vacuum, Lets go with Ramirez.  But in real life, I am happy with Scutaro, whose arm is not nearly the noodle you wish to ascribe to him.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    Where is Andrewmitch?

     
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    In Response to Re: Mark My Words............:
    [QUOTE]If you are going to trade Ellsbury, a team that might have interest and does have pitching is Seattle.  There has been talk on the radio here (by the sports talk radio hosts, not the team) that Ellsbury would fit well here.  He is from Oregon, and he is a left-handed bat that would play well in Safeco.  The Sox could get Franklin Gutierrez (a RH hitting CF to replace Ellsbury), Joel Pineda and probably another prospect.  Pineda would be a young, solid #3 or 4 pitcher.  The Mariners have other pitchers to replace him and get a big bat and local star to help the team.  Ichiro is in the last year of his contract, and Figgins contract runs out in two years.  They will be able to afford him if they choose to re-sign him.  There has been talk that they are in on Prince Fielder, and adding Fielder and Ellsbury may help the team's attendance and show the fans the front office is trying to build a winner. 
    Posted by fizsh[/QUOTE]

    In the midst of most of this nonsense on here, I find a fizch post with an intriguing trade offer.  Since I know little about the Mariners, I took the liberty of looking these guys up. 

    It looks like Gutierrez was in quite a funk in 2011 before being sidelined.  You would have to at least hope he would return to career norms offensively, which are not very impressive in and of themselves, even considering the ballpark factor (Safeco), where he's actually hit slightly better than on the road.  From what I understand though, he seems to play stellar defense. 

    Now Michael Pineda (not Joel) looks promising, but he was greatly helped by Safeco with a 2.92 ERA at home, and 4.40 ERA on the road.  He did log 171 innings, which is a big boon for any staff.  I wonder how he would fare in the AL beast and what his potential is. 

    I suggest you introduce this trade as a thread.  I would be interested in reading what the resident Sabrematricians and would-be scouts have to add.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    Thanks Sherrif, and I corrected my post with Pineda.  I was still asleep when I posted, I think.  I think I had Joel Pineiro on the mind.  I have heard Kevin Calabro mention the M's should trade for Ellsbury a couple of times, and I guess he got the idea from another host on ESPN/Seattle.  

    Another thing about Pineda is he had a poor second half.  The feeling here is that he tired down the stretch.  

    I might take you up on your suggesting and start a new thread about it this evening when I get home from work.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wonderdrums. Show wonderdrums's posts

    Re: Mark My Words............

    In Response to Re: Mark My Words............:
    [QUOTE]Manny needs to turn Wastefield on to HGH, instead of Beer.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Why so his fastball can hit 80mph? We all know you dont like the guy Hank, but namecalling? Now tha he's gone,why not give Wake his due? In a league of overpaid primadonnas Timmy has never overvalued himself. He's never made more than 4.64 million(2005) in a single season as a starter. He's had a dozen wins in a season at least 6 times, and a few 15 to 17 win season as well. Any other pitcher would have held out for more money. Ill agree its time for the Sox to move on from Wake but his attitude towards contracts and his understanding that he gets paid to play a game is refreshing in these 10yr 250 million dollar contract times. Being a guy who's all about value for the dollar, I figured you of all people could at least appreciate that Hank. Given that top starters are averaging about a milion per win, Wake was a bargin most seasons. Just my opinion, Go Sox!
     

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