McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

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    McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Sean McAdam/CSNNE.com
    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Two morning-after musings:

    www.csnne.com/images/107647.gif" border="0" alt="bullet.gif" /> If, as it certainly seems, Andrew Miller is about to soon join the Red Sox starting rotation, Tim Wakefield is going to be displaced, one way or another.

    While one report had the Red Sox planning to slot Miller into the current mix, and, at least for a while, go with six starters, Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.

    There's no rationale for removing Josh Beckett, who sports the lowest ERA of any American League starter, or Jon Lester, who leads in A.L. in wins.

    Clay Buchholz (3.59 ERA) has earned a permanent spot in the rotation, and John Lackey gets to stay based on his paycheck. The Sox aren't about to have a long man making almost $17 million per season -- there's too much invested.

    That leaves Wakefield, who has a habit of finding himself squeezed out of the picture.

    Wakefield pitched brilliantly Tuesday night in defeat, allowing just one earned run over seven innings. He's sure to be unhappy with the idea of being passed over, or, at the very least, moved around.

    Though he's not primarily motivated by personal gain, each start Wakefield doesn't get makes his twin goals of 200 career wins (he sits at 196) and becoming the all-time winningest Red Sox pitcher (he's currently 11 away from topping Cy Young and Roger Clemens) become more remote.

    Wakefield's current deal expires at the end of the season and while he's been a valuable depth piece on the Red Sox' staff for the last few years, there's no guarantee of his return for 2012 and beyond.

    It will take a strong sell job by Terry Francona to have Wakefield remain invested in the team should he again be shifted to the role of bullpen long man.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Personally, I don't give a rat's hinee about Lackey's paycheck. At the moment, Wakefield is our fourth-best starter hands down. I say keep him there.

     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    While the knuckleball can be a problem for hitters, it seems to be a bigger problem for catchers.

    He is still capable of fooling hitters for a short spell, but remains a liability in close games. Especially when runners are on 3rd base.

    I can always visualize the manager with his hand behind his back and fingers crossed whenever a knuckleball pitcher is on the mound.

    Personally , if I was a manager , I wouldn't want a knuckleball pitcher on my staff. And certainly not in my rotation. I can see why many managers are bald or have gray hair.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    I think Wake has earned his spot for now.

    They should make Miller a long man for now.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Wakes gets no respect. Much as I do not like it, I think Miller will squeeze him from the rotation and the roster, and he will get his release  - sign maybe with the Rays.

    Don't like that scenario, but that's what will happen, IMO.

    And it should not.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Wake is needed right now.  At some point, maybe he won't.  And then he waddles back out to the pen.  And that is the beauty of Wake.  
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Wakefield has been the constant of the RS staff for what, 17 years? He never complains, just goes out and does his job, and more times than not, does it well.
    Truth be told, not many of today's fans want to see the knuckleball. They think it's trickery and a novelty instead of an art form. Opposing hitters would rather face a 98 MPH FB than a knuckleball and I can pretty much guarantee that most hitters fear Wakefield more than Lester. With lester, at least they know they will get something to hit.
    I don't believe Francona cares much for Wake, and I' sure the feeling is mutual for Wake. However, he deserves a shot at winning 200 games, and he is still an effective pitcher. How many guys can blow away a hitter with a 74 MPH FB like he did Ruggiero last night. That was classic Wake!
    Even the HR Ruggiero hit only traveled about 325 Ft, certainly not crushed by any means.
    Wake is dependable and will usually give 6 or 7 innings of solid work. He deserves to stay in the rotation.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    In Response to Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?:
    [QUOTE]Wakefield has been the constant of the RS staff for what, 17 years? He never complains, just goes out and does his job, and more times than not, does it well. Truth be told, not many of today's fans want to see the knuckleball. They think it's trickery and a novelty instead of an art form. Opposing hitters would rather face a 98 MPH FB than a knuckleball and I can pretty much guarantee that most hitters fear Wakefield more than Lester. With lester, at least they know they will get something to hit. I don't believe Francona cares much for Wake, and I' sure the feeling is mutual for Wake. However, he deserves a shot at winning 200 games, and he is still an effective pitcher. How many guys can blow away a hitter with a 74 MPH FB like he did Ruggiero last night. That was classic Wake! Even the HR Ruggiero hit only traveled about 325 Ft, certainly not crushed by any means. Wake is dependable and will usually give 6 or 7 innings of solid work. He deserves to stay in the rotation.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Francona loves Wake.  He has made that abundantly clear.  Whether he feels comfy trotting him out there every five is another thing, but he clearly loves Wake.  Wake wasn't an abvious choice to make the roster this year or last year.  But out of respect, Terry kept him.  Because, even though he would perhaps have a more dependable option, and one that doesn;t require a separate or re-wired catcher, he knows Wake will do whatever is needed (though obviosuly there has been some friction as Wake has bristled at his pen demotions).  Plus, Wake has been through many gauntlets with Tito.  I am not sure where you get that Francona doesn't care for him.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

       ALL GOOD POINTS ABOVE......  HOWEVER, "HOW YA GOING TO KEEP THIS YOUNG FIREBALLING/STUD DOWN ON THE FARM" !!!!
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    i think i read somewhere that the SOX may use a 6 man rotation, giving wake and lackey extra rest between starts.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    In Response to Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?:
    [QUOTE]   ALL GOOD POINTS ABOVE......  HOWEVER, "HOW YA GOING TO KEEP THIS YOUNG FIREBALLING/STUD DOWN ON THE FARM" !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    I hear you. What I'm saying is,  bump Lackey. Plain and simple, Wakefield is pitching better and is far more reliable. And again, I don't care about Lackey's contract, which I understand makes me more of a pragmatist and realist.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Wakefield pitched brilliantly Tuesday night in defeat

    This is patent nonsense! He was hit hard and had one of those games where he had a lot of luck and an impotent Rays offense. He walked 5 batters and hit one batter. He looks like a wounded duck trying to cover first. His ERA was near 5 before this start, and it will go right back there or worse if he's left in the rotation. They've given him a lot of average down time between these few starts, and he will break down if they don't have special timeout rules for this guy. He is a blowup at anytime, no matter how good the smoke and mirrors has been looking in an outing, and batters can start running the moment it gets to two strikes at the plate and just start running the bases. The pitiful part is that a lot of downtime between outings and trying to match Wakefield up against the weaker offenses has produced a weak ERA that is the best Wakefield could possible produce.

    With the offense the Red Sox have, one game doesn't change that, it makes no sense to put the old man out there and take time away from giving the young guys a chance to get experience. The young guys have the potential to pitch truly excellent starts, and should be allowed to struggle and get the starts in front of an elite MLB offense. Wakefield's potential is what it has been for two years, and he should not be getting the starts. The starts should be going to Miller, Doubrant and Aceves/Bowden, with a 5 ERA being good enough to keep Wakefield on the DL or elsewhere.

    My hope is that they bump Wakefield and make him mad enough to pitch for the Rays, assuming any team in baseball would want the guy.

    Bottom line, Wakefield will bump himself if he tried to make a few more starts on 5 days rest. He will hurt himself if they don't bump him, so I've advocated telling him that he has had his down time and he needs to be ready to take the ball every 5 days on the clock.

    Miller will most certainly struggle in outings as he tries to find the confidence to be effective at the MLB level. But investing the time in him, then Doubrant or the other young pitchers, is the only way to develop experience in young talent.
    Wakefield is a closed book who should have retired after the 2009 surgery. Like Varitek, he'll have to be kicked out of MLB, and he will be.

    As for loyalty, Wakeifield's demand is so low that it's not loyalty. If the Yankees offered him an extra year and tripled the money, he would have been gone several years ago. Loyalty only goes as far as the bank account being large enough to turn down a huge contract in favor of another huge contract.

    Wakefield has the loser's aura when he goes out there. Just because he stands out there long enough to get a win does not mean that aura isn't still there. He instills no team confidence when he pitches, regardless of what he did in the last outing. 

    Last night was a game with a division opponent that takes on increased importance. The Red Sox offense had been lights out but can't do it every night and Shields is having a hot run, even though no GM would touch Shields outside of the dumpster price. 

    The question is, if the Red Sox offense is off and/or facing a hot pitching performance, is the Red Sox starter capable of matching the opponent on a given night? With Wakefield, the answer is no. With Miller, the answer is maybe? With Doubrant, the answer is maybe. 

    Go with the youth and let Wakefield show how good he is on another team. Middle and upper management made a mistake by not giving Wakefield a day of appreciation and cutting him loose last year to retire or play elsewhere.

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Wakefield should be bumped.  Save him for when the next pitcher goes on the DL. 

    This is perfect for Wakefield.  If he were the full time starter, he'd end up missing half his starts due to injury.  This way, he gets as many starts except they don't wait for when he gets injurred.

    Lackey was hired by the GM to be a starter.  If the team isn't successful with Lackey as a starter, then it's on Theo.  And it's not like the team is struggling because of Lackey.

    Besides, the way this team has been scoring runs, I could be a successful starter on the team. 

    They got 2 choices with Lackey.  Either he's successful enough to help the team or they eat his contract and trade him.  But if I'm the GM, I going to want Lackey to have every opportunity to be successful before I trade him away.

    You can't demote free agent signings every time they struggle.  If you do, you won't be able to sign any free agents and you'll negativity in the clubhouse, which can tear a team apart. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    DirtyWater, how many times do you think Wakefield was "injured" since being a Sox pitcher? He hurt his back the second half of 2009, then had back surgery to correct his problem. When has he been hurt since? Once again, another example of a fan who goes with myths over facts. Wakefield has spent less time on the DL in his time with the Red Sox than Dice-K did.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Water, though I disagree on keeping Wakefield on the de facto DL in waiting, I agree with the general thrust of your comments. Well said.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    In Response to Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?:
    [QUOTE]Wakefield should be bumped.  Save him for when the next pitcher goes on the DL.  This is perfect for Wakefield.  If he were the full time starter, he'd end up missing half his starts due to injury.  This way, he gets as many starts except they don't wait for when he gets injurred. Lackey was hired by the GM to be a starter.  If the team isn't successful with Lackey as a starter, then it's on Theo.  And it's not like the team is struggling because of Lackey. Besides, the way this team has been scoring runs, I could be a successful starter on the team.  They got 2 choices with Lackey.  Either he's successful enough to help the team or they eat his contract and trade him.  But if I'm the GM, I going to want Lackey to have every opportunity to be successful before I trade him away. You can't demote free agent signings every time they struggle.  If you do, you won't be able to sign any free agents and you'll negativity in the clubhouse, which can tear a team apart. 
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    Actually, you make a very sound argument.  I change my vote.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    "If he were the full time starter, he'd end up missing half his starts due to injury."   if that's the sound argument, then I guess we should start making plans to sell you swampland in Florida. The bidding begins at 2.5 million.
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    I dont want to see Wake go anywhere if a move is made I would rather it be a trade with a national league team out of sight out of mind, releasing him and having another AL East team sign him could come back to haunt the Sox
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    In Response to Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?:
    [QUOTE]Wakefield pitched brilliantly Tuesday night in defeat This is patent nonsense! He was hit hard and had one of those games where he had a lot of luck and an impotent Rays offense. He walked 5 batters and hit one batter. He looks like a wounded duck trying to cover first. His ERA was near 5 before this start, and it will go right back there or worse if he's left in the rotation. They've given him a lot of average down time between these few starts, and he will break down if they don't have special timeout rules for this guy. He is a blowup at anytime, no matter how good the smoke and mirrors has been looking in an outing, and batters can start running the moment it gets to two strikes at the plate and just start running the bases. The pitiful part is that a lot of downtime between outings and trying to match Wakefield up against the weaker offenses has produced a weak ERA that is the best Wakefield could possible produce. With the offense the Red Sox have, one game doesn't change that, it makes no sense to put the old man out there and take time away from giving the young guys a chance to get experience. The young guys have the potential to pitch truly excellent starts, and should be allowed to struggle and get the starts in front of an elite MLB offense. Wakefield's potential is what it has been for two years, and he should not be getting the starts. The starts should be going to Miller, Doubrant and Aceves/Bowden, with a 5 ERA being good enough to keep Wakefield on the DL or elsewhere. My hope is that they bump Wakefield and make him mad enough to pitch for the Rays, assuming any team in baseball would want the guy. Bottom line, Wakefield will bump himself if he tried to make a few more starts on 5 days rest. He will hurt himself if they don't bump him, so I've advocated telling him that he has had his down time and he needs to be ready to take the ball every 5 days on the clock. Miller will most certainly struggle in outings as he tries to find the confidence to be effective at the MLB level. But investing the time in him, then Doubrant or the other young pitchers, is the only way to develop experience in young talent. Wakefield is a closed book who should have retired after the 2009 surgery. Like Varitek, he'll have to be kicked out of MLB, and he will be. As for loyalty, Wakeifield's demand is so low that it's not loyalty. If the Yankees offered him an extra year and tripled the money, he would have been gone several years ago. Loyalty only goes as far as the bank account being large enough to turn down a huge contract in favor of another huge contract. Wakefield has the loser's aura when he goes out there. Just because he stands out there long enough to get a win does not mean that aura isn't still there. He instills no team confidence when he pitches, regardless of what he did in the last outing.  Last night was a game with a division opponent that takes on increased importance. The Red Sox offense had been lights out but can't do it every night and Shields is having a hot run, even though no GM would touch Shields outside of the dumpster price.  The question is, if the Red Sox offense is off and/or facing a hot pitching performance, is the Red Sox starter capable of matching the opponent on a given night? With Wakefield, the answer is no. With Miller, the answer is maybe? With Doubrant, the answer is maybe.  Go with the youth and let Wakefield show how good he is on another team. Middle and upper management made a mistake by not giving Wakefield a day of appreciation and cutting him loose last year to retire or play elsewhere.  
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    thought young guys got experience down at AAA or am i wrong?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    No, young guys with plenty of experience in minor leagues get MLB experience by playing MLB.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Another Wake thread? Wake is like a tin can that always get kicked arounded and because he is such a good guy and teamates it appears he is taken avantage of...

    Long live Wake...
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    With the exception of one start Wake has picthed very well. Dice K and Lackey have been terrible all year. Does anyone talk about dropping them from the rotation. No. If Dice K didn't get hurt he would still be in the rotation. No one has talked about Lackey being demoted. It's always get rid of Wakefield. Give the gut a little respect. As of now there is no reason to remove him from the rotation. All you Wake haters need to find something else to complain about.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

     Every year we worry about Wake.Time to move on with that.Wakefield should be odd man out.Tired of what to do about Wakefield. Not only is it getting old ,So is Wake.If we can get a young pitcher in our rotation so be it.If you think different, Then lets bring Marabelli back for old time reunion.Go Sox....The next generation
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    what does wake have to do to stay in the rotation, kill somone? Now they want to replace him with another reclamation project>

    dumb

    he is pitching very well...better than Lackey and as well as clay and lester
     
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    Re: McAdam:Wakefield will eventually be the odd man out.-Do you think he should be out of the rotation?

    Source: Miller to be promoted; will pitch Monday

    Sean McAdam/CNNE.com

    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- While no announcement was made Wednesday, the Red Sox intend to promote left-hander Andrew Miller to their big-league roster this weekend and have him make his Boston debut Monday against the San Diego Padres, a source with knowledge of the situation said.

    Prior to Wednesday's game, Red Sox manager Terry Francona spoke of Miller in mostly general terms.

    "I think where we're at is, he's obviously a big part of our organization," said Francona. "And he's going to stay that way. He's not going anywhere (indicating that Miller will not be utilizing his opt-out clause, which kicked in Wednesday). Whatever happens going forward, if and when, we'll make that announcement as things unfold. It will make sense, but we can't get ahead of ourselves."

    Miller is 3-3 with a 2.47 ERA in 13 appearances for Triple-A Pawtucket, and has shown greatly improved control in his last four starts. He's walked only three batters in his last 25 1/3 innings, covering his last four starts.

    The Red Sox had their hand forced because they were aware that a number of teams were prepared Miller a spot in their rotation immediately.

    It's believed that Miller's presence in the rotation will eventually force Tim Wakefield's return to the bullpen. But for now, the plan is for Wakefield to make his next scheduled start, Sunday against Milwaukee.

    There's a limit, however, to how long the Red Sox can maintain a six-man rotation, particularly with two upcoming scheduled off-days -- June 23 and June 27. Providing six starters with enough work would be difficult in any case, but the two off-days in the span of four would make that problematic.

     

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