Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not saying I am for bringing Drew back, but by trading Dempster & Gomes or Peavy alone, we could sign Drew and stay under the luxury limit. Moving Bogey to 3B would allow us to trade Carp or Middlebrooks for a decent OF option to compliment or possibly replace JBJ in CF if he struggles next year. Trading Carp makes more sense in this scenario, since Middy could play  3B or 3B in case of injury, but if Gomes (and dempster) are traded not Peavy, then Carp could be utilized more in LF.

    As for Brentz, I know this team has not had man big power bats come up through our system in recent years, but that should lead us to the tendency to get all gushy over the few that put up big numbers in the minors or in short MLB stints. History is littered with minor league power giants who never amount to squat in the bigs.

    Here are all the Sox prospects with big HR per AB ratios since 2007 (20+ HRs or an awesome ratio):

    2007: Aaron Bates 28 HRs/464ABs, Bubba Bell 26/469, Jon Still 25/440, Brad Correll 23/250 (Wow! what a ratio!), Z Daeges 21/515, S White 21/465, Reddick 18/370

    2008: Van Every 26/380, J Bailey 25/418, C Carter 24/470, Reddick 23/482, Still 22/456, Kottaras 22/395, L Exposito 21/417, J Stanley 18/308

    2009: Lavarnway 21/404

    2010: Rizzo 25/531,, Spears 20/514,  Reddick 18/451, R Rodriguez 14/278

    2011: Lava 32/435, Brentz 30/458, Middy 23/439, M Head 22/495, Chang 18/321, Vazquez 18/392, Jacobs 17/442, Bogey 16/265, Reddick 14/191

    2012: M Gomez 24/387, Bogey 20/475, de la Cruz 20/499, T Shaw 19/462, Hazelbaker 19/466, Brentz 17/463, Linares 16/413, R Rodriguez 16/370

    2013: D Chester 19/432, Brentz 19/343, Coyle 16/240, Butler 14/282

    Yes, there are a few on this list that may end up with decent MLB careers, but a pretty big majority will not. I'm not saying the odds doom Brentz or Middy, but I think some of us may be relying too much on hope than probability. (No disrespect intended)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I dont think we are gushing or relying on them. We are just being realistic with their power potential as well as they have shown success at every level. Just a little more time is what some of us would like to see and not give up as easily as some here have.

    To say they can not imporve is ridiculous. Nava has improved greatly since coming to Boston and hes 30yo. It might take Middy or Brentz until they are 25-26 to come into their own. maybe they will and maybe they wont, but I just wouldnt let either go right now.

    Of course if they were overwhelmed in a trade then of course. They dont HAVE to trade either one, so why do it. Lets give them a little more time. the reward could be great.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To say they can not imporve is ridiculous. Nava has improved greatly since coming to Boston and hes 30yo. It might take Middy or Brentz until they are 25-26 to come into their own. maybe they will and maybe they wont, but I just wouldnt let either go right now.

    I think it's the definition of improve that muddys the water when discussing the upside of a prospect. If the expectation is that Middlebrooks has to be in the same class as Longoria to be judged worthy, then he's likely to fall short. However if the expectation is that he improves his defense enough not to be a liabilty at 3B with the glove, hits .275 /.325 OBP  with 25 bombs while batting down in the order and strikes out less than 175 times in 600 plate appearances. Then I would say he's got a shot at being successful. 

    To your greater point of not every hitter or player reaches maturation at the same age. Unless your blessed with god given talants like Bogaerts. Most take a full season to make adjustments to the big league game and another year or more find their cielings, while continuing to work on thier respective  games. The question then becomes does the team have the patience and the roster flexibilty to allow the player to develop or do they move him and replace him with a veteran. Often teams that are perenial contenders like the Red Sox simply don't have the luxury of allowing a young player to spend an entire season learning the game let alone two or three season before they "find themselves".

    IMHO Middlebrooks is already in a place where the Sox have a solid idea of what to expect and my guess is that they're comfortable with penciling him in as the starter at 3B. Bradley Jr is the player better fit the above criteria. Brenztz hasn't even had a cup of coffee so his status is more of the organizational depth variety. As such if they can acquire a player that better fits the needs of 2014 / 2015 and another organization values his upside. I could see them trading any of the three...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    2007: Aaron Bates 28 HRs/464ABs, Bubba Bell 26/469, Jon Still 25/440, Brad Correll 23/250 (Wow! what a ratio!), Z Daeges 21/515, S White 21/465, Reddick 18/370

    2008: Van Every 26/380, J Bailey 25/418, C Carter 24/470, Reddick 23/482, Still 22/456, Kottaras 22/395, L Exposito 21/417, J Stanley 18/308

     

    Ahh, I miss Lancaster...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    On Middlebrooks and Brentz. Moon is right in that there have been plenty of guys in the minors who showed great power potential only to fizzle. However, because power bats are hard to find, that is all the more reason to be patient with them.

    As far as plate discipline. There's nothing wrong with having a couple of free swingers in the lineup if you're getting the power and run production. Wouldn't want an entire lineup of free swingers but two or three surrounded by guys who work the count is fine.

    And Middlebrooks showed better plate discipline when he was called back up. He had just nine walks in 216 PA in the first half and 11 BB in 158 PA after being called back up. He batted .276 with a .329 OBP when he was called back up. If he does that and provides 30 HR and 90-plus RBIs, that would be great.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not saying I am for bringing Drew back, but by trading Dempster & Gomes or Peavy alone, we could sign Drew and stay under the luxury limit. Moving Bogey to 3B would allow us to trade Carp or Middlebrooks for a decent OF option to compliment or possibly replace JBJ in CF if he struggles next year. Trading Carp makes more sense in this scenario, since Middy could play  3B or 3B in case of injury, but if Gomes (and dempster) are traded not Peavy, then Carp could be utilized more in LF.

    As for Brentz, I know this team has not had man big power bats come up through our system in recent years, but that should lead us to the tendency to get all gushy over the few that put up big numbers in the minors or in short MLB stints. History is littered with minor league power giants who never amount to squat in the bigs.

    Here are all the Sox prospects with big HR per AB ratios since 2007 (20+ HRs or an awesome ratio):

    2007: Aaron Bates 28 HRs/464ABs, Bubba Bell 26/469, Jon Still 25/440, Brad Correll 23/250 (Wow! what a ratio!), Z Daeges 21/515, S White 21/465, Reddick 18/370

    2008: Van Every 26/380, J Bailey 25/418, C Carter 24/470, Reddick 23/482, Still 22/456, Kottaras 22/395, L Exposito 21/417, J Stanley 18/308

    2009: Lavarnway 21/404

    2010: Rizzo 25/531,, Spears 20/514,  Reddick 18/451, R Rodriguez 14/278

    2011: Lava 32/435, Brentz 30/458, Middy 23/439, M Head 22/495, Chang 18/321, Vazquez 18/392, Jacobs 17/442, Bogey 16/265, Reddick 14/191

    2012: M Gomez 24/387, Bogey 20/475, de la Cruz 20/499, T Shaw 19/462, Hazelbaker 19/466, Brentz 17/463, Linares 16/413, R Rodriguez 16/370

    2013: D Chester 19/432, Brentz 19/343, Coyle 16/240, Butler 14/282

    Yes, there are a few on this list that may end up with decent MLB careers, but a pretty big majority will not. I'm not saying the odds doom Brentz or Middy, but I think some of us may be relying too much on hope than probability. (No disrespect intended)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I dont think we are gushing or relying on them. We are just being realistic with their power potential as well as they have shown success at every level. Just a little more time is what some of us would like to see and not give up as easily as some here have.

    To say they can not imporve is ridiculous. Nava has improved greatly since coming to Boston and hes 30yo. It might take Middy or Brentz until they are 25-26 to come into their own. maybe they will and maybe they wont, but I just wouldnt let either go right now.

    Of course if they were overwhelmed in a trade then of course. They dont HAVE to trade either one, so why do it. Lets give them a little more time. the reward could be great.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To say they can not imporve is ridiculous. Nava has improved greatly since coming to Boston and hes 30yo. It might take Middy or Brentz until they are 25-26 to come into their own. maybe they will and maybe they wont, but I just wouldnt let either go right now.

    I think it's the definition of improve that muddys the water when discussing the upside of a prospect. If the expectation is that Middlebrooks has to be in the same class as Longoria to be judged worthy, then he's likely to fall short. However if the expectation is that he improves his defense enough not to be a liabilty at 3B with the glove, hits .275 /.325 OBP  with 25 bombs while batting down in the order and strikes out less than 175 times in 600 plate appearances. Then I would say he's got a shot at being successful. 

    To your greater point of not every hitter or player reaches maturation at the same age. Unless your blessed with god given talants like Bogaerts. Most take a full season to make adjustments to the big league game and another year or more find their cielings, while continuing to work on thier respective  games. The question then becomes does the team have the patience and the roster flexibilty to allow the player to develop or do they move him and replace him with a veteran. Often teams that are perenial contenders like the Red Sox simply don't have the luxury of allowing a young player to spend an entire season learning the game let alone two or three season before they "find themselves".

    IMHO Middlebrooks is already in a place where the Sox have a solid idea of what to expect and my guess is that they're comfortable with penciling him in as the starter at 3B. Bradley Jr is the player better fit the above criteria. Brenztz hasn't even had a cup of coffee so his status is more of the organizational depth variety. As such if they can acquire a player that better fits the needs of 2014 / 2015 and another organization values his upside. I could see them trading any of the three...

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with all of this. Basically its exactly what I was saying. Although they are not a small market team that can allow a prospect to come up early and learn on the job, they also have the money and flexability to hold on to a few guys (Hassan, Middy, Brentz, Lavarnway, Workman) into ages 25-26 hoping the potential will be realized, or at least realized enough to warrant a job with the big club.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    As far as I'm concerned, the Sox should start Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley.

    A lot of posters/fans seem to get all bent out of shape at the prospect at starting all three together this year. Personally, I think the Red Sox should go for it. This is what they've been building for. To develop the young players and go with homegrown players whenever possible. 

    Of course, some home grown players will be traded. But the Sox have a potential power-hitting 3B, that hotshot young SS that they've wanted since Nomar, and a protypical CF in Bradley (speed, great defense and a guy who should hit for average and should have some pop -- 15-20 HR).

    So just because we can see weaknesses in any of them, it doesn't mean they can't keep improving, and it doesn't mean that they're not ready now.

    Bogaerts: Most think he's ready and will be the one guy who definitely starts, so let's skip over him.

    Middlebrooks: Take a look at his career thus far. He's played seven full months in the regular season and five of them have been excellent months. Yet too many seem to put more stock in the two bad months and dismiss the five good months. Middlebrooks seems to want to improve and seems even more motivated to prove he belongs after last year's rollarcoaster year. For what the potential upside is, I say put him in at 3B and see if he can be the answer. He has nothing left to prove in the minors, so the only way you'll know for sure is to him in. He did improve in one area last year after working with Lowell -- throwing and getting his footwork right -- and showed better plate discipline late in the year.

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

    It doesn't mean that Bradley will do the same, but it sure shows that it might be worth it to be patient. The upside is so great will all three that it's worth giving all three a shot. And to add, with the Sox coming off a W.S. title and all three players being home grown, I think most fans would be willing to give all three shot. And to add, Middlebrooks isn't a rookie so from that standpoint, the Sox would only be starting two rookies.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    next week, Ben needs to do a salary dump w/ a starter and figure out what do w/ Drew

    right now, it looks like we need to keep our cheap talent (ie keep Middlebrook and take the pick for Drew)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not saying I am for bringing Drew back, but by trading Dempster & Gomes or Peavy alone, we could sign Drew and stay under the luxury limit. Moving Bogey to 3B would allow us to trade Carp or Middlebrooks for a decent OF option to compliment or possibly replace JBJ in CF if he struggles next year. Trading Carp makes more sense in this scenario, since Middy could play  3B or 3B in case of injury, but if Gomes (and dempster) are traded not Peavy, then Carp could be utilized more in LF.

    As for Brentz, I know this team has not had man big power bats come up through our system in recent years, but that should lead us to the tendency to get all gushy over the few that put up big numbers in the minors or in short MLB stints. History is littered with minor league power giants who never amount to squat in the bigs.

    Here are all the Sox prospects with big HR per AB ratios since 2007 (20+ HRs or an awesome ratio):

    2007: Aaron Bates 28 HRs/464ABs, Bubba Bell 26/469, Jon Still 25/440, Brad Correll 23/250 (Wow! what a ratio!), Z Daeges 21/515, S White 21/465, Reddick 18/370

    2008: Van Every 26/380, J Bailey 25/418, C Carter 24/470, Reddick 23/482, Still 22/456, Kottaras 22/395, L Exposito 21/417, J Stanley 18/308

    2009: Lavarnway 21/404

    2010: Rizzo 25/531,, Spears 20/514,  Reddick 18/451, R Rodriguez 14/278

    2011: Lava 32/435, Brentz 30/458, Middy 23/439, M Head 22/495, Chang 18/321, Vazquez 18/392, Jacobs 17/442, Bogey 16/265, Reddick 14/191

    2012: M Gomez 24/387, Bogey 20/475, de la Cruz 20/499, T Shaw 19/462, Hazelbaker 19/466, Brentz 17/463, Linares 16/413, R Rodriguez 16/370

    2013: D Chester 19/432, Brentz 19/343, Coyle 16/240, Butler 14/282

    Yes, there are a few on this list that may end up with decent MLB careers, but a pretty big majority will not. I'm not saying the odds doom Brentz or Middy, but I think some of us may be relying too much on hope than probability. (No disrespect intended)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I dont think we are gushing or relying on them. We are just being realistic with their power potential as well as they have shown success at every level. Just a little more time is what some of us would like to see and not give up as easily as some here have.

    To say they can not imporve is ridiculous. Nava has improved greatly since coming to Boston and hes 30yo. It might take Middy or Brentz until they are 25-26 to come into their own. maybe they will and maybe they wont, but I just wouldnt let either go right now.

    Of course if they were overwhelmed in a trade then of course. They dont HAVE to trade either one, so why do it. Lets give them a little more time. the reward could be great.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To say they can not imporve is ridiculous. Nava has improved greatly since coming to Boston and hes 30yo. It might take Middy or Brentz until they are 25-26 to come into their own. maybe they will and maybe they wont, but I just wouldnt let either go right now.

    I think it's the definition of improve that muddys the water when discussing the upside of a prospect. If the expectation is that Middlebrooks has to be in the same class as Longoria to be judged worthy, then he's likely to fall short. However if the expectation is that he improves his defense enough not to be a liabilty at 3B with the glove, hits .275 /.325 OBP  with 25 bombs while batting down in the order and strikes out less than 175 times in 600 plate appearances. Then I would say he's got a shot at being successful. 

    To your greater point of not every hitter or player reaches maturation at the same age. Unless your blessed with god given talants like Bogaerts. Most take a full season to make adjustments to the big league game and another year or more find their cielings, while continuing to work on thier respective  games. The question then becomes does the team have the patience and the roster flexibilty to allow the player to develop or do they move him and replace him with a veteran. Often teams that are perenial contenders like the Red Sox simply don't have the luxury of allowing a young player to spend an entire season learning the game let alone two or three season before they "find themselves".

    IMHO Middlebrooks is already in a place where the Sox have a solid idea of what to expect and my guess is that they're comfortable with penciling him in as the starter at 3B. Bradley Jr is the player better fit the above criteria. Brenztz hasn't even had a cup of coffee so his status is more of the organizational depth variety. As such if they can acquire a player that better fits the needs of 2014 / 2015 and another organization values his upside. I could see them trading any of the three...

    [/QUOTE]

    And any time you can get that for the league minimum ou take it.  I prefer guys with better plate approaches, but to me it's also the sum of the whole offense and we can benefit from having Middys power there if guys like PAPI, Pedroia, Nava, and Bogaerts balance it out.  I also think JBJ is going to be a high OBP guy. I think he will eclipse .300 this year even if he struggles at the plate.

    Im curious to see what happens with Brentz, he almost seems like the marquee sox trade bait guy, but we also have very little depth in the outfield. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    I'd be fine with dumping as much of Dempsters salary as we can and leave that space for any potential upgrades at the deadline,

    I know you can never have enough pitching but I'm confident that some combination of Brandon Workman, Steven Wright, Allen Webster, Anthony Ranaudo, and Matt Barnes can be as good as Dempster at this point in his career. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    makes no sense to bring drew back, if we dump one of our pitchers (dempster being the most likely) then that money needs to go towards a middle of the order left field bat. ie matt kemp. starting middlebrooks at 3B and bogaerts at SS makes the most sense. we also have garin checcini who could be ready by mid season so if middlebrooks struggles we could call him up. drew is good defensively, but he struggled with the bat and is not worth the money we have bigger needs. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As far as I'm concerned, the Sox should start Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley.

    A lot of posters/fans seem to get all bent out of shape at the prospect at starting all three together this year. Personally, I think the Red Sox should go for it. This is what they've been building for. To develop the young players and go with homegrown players whenever possible. 

    Of course, some home grown players will be traded. But the Sox have a potential power-hitting 3B, that hotshot young SS that they've wanted since Nomar, and a protypical CF in Bradley (speed, great defense and a guy who should hit for average and should have some pop -- 15-20 HR).

    So just because we can see weaknesses in any of them, it doesn't mean they can't keep improving, and it doesn't mean that they're not ready now.

    Bogaerts: Most think he's ready and will be the one guy who definitely starts, so let's skip over him.

    Middlebrooks: Take a look at his career thus far. He's played seven full months in the regular season and five of them have been excellent months. Yet too many seem to put more stock in the two bad months and dismiss the five good months. Middlebrooks seems to want to improve and seems even more motivated to prove he belongs after last year's rollarcoaster year. For what the potential upside is, I say put him in at 3B and see if he can be the answer. He has nothing left to prove in the minors, so the only way you'll know for sure is to him in. He did improve in one area last year after working with Lowell -- throwing and getting his footwork right -- and showed better plate discipline late in the year.

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

    It doesn't mean that Bradley will do the same, but it sure shows that it might be worth it to be patient. The upside is so great will all three that it's worth giving all three a shot. And to add, with the Sox coming off a W.S. title and all three players being home grown, I think most fans would be willing to give all three shot. And to add, Middlebrooks isn't a rookie so from that standpoint, the Sox would only be starting two rookies.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1 good posts, I like your points on JBJ.  I think he will be fine as well.  I remember hearing an interview where he would talk about taking batting practice for hours practicing hitting pitches on the corner because he wanted to be a good two strike hitter.

    Thats the EXACT kind of work ethic I'd put my chips on.

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
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    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    makes no sense to bring drew back, if we dump one of our pitchers (dempster being the most likely) then that money needs to go towards a middle of the order left field bat. ie matt kemp. starting middlebrooks at 3B and bogaerts at SS makes the most sense. we also have garin checcini who could be ready by mid season so if middlebrooks struggles we could call him up. drew is good defensively, but he struggled with the bat and is not worth the money we have bigger needs. 

    [/QUOTE]


    If someone in here wants to invent time travel and go into the future and assure us that Kemps recent rash of injuries isn't the beginning of the end for him then I'd LOVE him in our lineup....but until then no thank you.

    We aren't going to have a middle of the order bat, and we don't need one.  It would be nice but it would also be a luxury as we had the most potent run scoring offense last year. 

    Yes we lost Ellsbury, Drew, Salty, but we are also gaining AJP, Bogaerts, and JBJ.  Now that group may not equal what's leaving but I have a very good feeling they are going to come closer than a lot expect.  I also think we will get more production from 3B this year.  

    The real hole here is who leads off? I'd be fine with Nava....but against lefties? Pedroia?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    Oliver* projects a .232/.282/.419/.701 line for Bryce Brentz (23 homeruns, 78 RBI, -0.1 WAR) and a .256/.304/.462/.766 line for Will Middlebrooks (27 homeruns, 89 RBI, 2.8 WAR**).

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa392232&position=OF

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7002&position=3B

    * Oliver assumes 143 games and 600 plate appearances for each player

    ** Middlebrooks' WAR projection includes a significant increase in defensive value

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to royf19's comment:

    As far as I'm concerned, the Sox should start Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley.

    A lot of posters/fans seem to get all bent out of shape at the prospect at starting all three together this year. Personally, I think the Red Sox should go for it. This is what they've been building for. To develop the young players and go with homegrown players whenever possible. 

    Of course, some home grown players will be traded. But the Sox have a potential power-hitting 3B, that hotshot young SS that they've wanted since Nomar, and a protypical CF in Bradley (speed, great defense and a guy who should hit for average and should have some pop -- 15-20 HR).

    So just because we can see weaknesses in any of them, it doesn't mean they can't keep improving, and it doesn't mean that they're not ready now.

    Bogaerts: Most think he's ready and will be the one guy who definitely starts, so let's skip over him.

    Middlebrooks: Take a look at his career thus far. He's played seven full months in the regular season and five of them have been excellent months. Yet too many seem to put more stock in the two bad months and dismiss the five good months. Middlebrooks seems to want to improve and seems even more motivated to prove he belongs after last year's rollarcoaster year. For what the potential upside is, I say put him in at 3B and see if he can be the answer. He has nothing left to prove in the minors, so the only way you'll know for sure is to him in. He did improve in one area last year after working with Lowell -- throwing and getting his footwork right -- and showed better plate discipline late in the year.

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

    It doesn't mean that Bradley will do the same, but it sure shows that it might be worth it to be patient. The upside is so great will all three that it's worth giving all three a shot. And to add, with the Sox coming off a W.S. title and all three players being home grown, I think most fans would be willing to give all three shot. And to add, Middlebrooks isn't a rookie so from that standpoint, the Sox would only be starting two rookies.



    Roy,

    I concur with all of the above and further I would say that given that they'll be raising another championship banner the pressure to win now on the organization and Cherington in particular is lessoned which buys them some wiggle room to continue to retool the nucleus. 

    In the end the decision is simple. Do they trust Bogearts to be the every day SS...if the answer is no then they'll sign Drew, move Bogearts to 3rd and Middlebrooks becomes a chip in a deal to acquire another part (CF?). They still have another year before they need to answer the Bradley Jr question. In the short term they can simply go out and add a veteran CF to the mix which will allow them to keep Victorino in RF...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    how many left fielders do we need?  we'd have to deal Gomes who makes a decent buck......isn't he a good enough RH bat to compliment what we have?

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    As far as I'm concerned, the Sox should start Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley.

    A lot of posters/fans seem to get all bent out of shape at the prospect at starting all three together this year. Personally, I think the Red Sox should go for it. This is what they've been building for. To develop the young players and go with homegrown players whenever possible. 

    Of course, some home grown players will be traded. But the Sox have a potential power-hitting 3B, that hotshot young SS that they've wanted since Nomar, and a protypical CF in Bradley (speed, great defense and a guy who should hit for average and should have some pop -- 15-20 HR).

    So just because we can see weaknesses in any of them, it doesn't mean they can't keep improving, and it doesn't mean that they're not ready now.

    Bogaerts: Most think he's ready and will be the one guy who definitely starts, so let's skip over him.

    Middlebrooks: Take a look at his career thus far. He's played seven full months in the regular season and five of them have been excellent months. Yet too many seem to put more stock in the two bad months and dismiss the five good months. Middlebrooks seems to want to improve and seems even more motivated to prove he belongs after last year's rollarcoaster year. For what the potential upside is, I say put him in at 3B and see if he can be the answer. He has nothing left to prove in the minors, so the only way you'll know for sure is to him in. He did improve in one area last year after working with Lowell -- throwing and getting his footwork right -- and showed better plate discipline late in the year.

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

    It doesn't mean that Bradley will do the same, but it sure shows that it might be worth it to be patient. The upside is so great will all three that it's worth giving all three a shot. And to add, with the Sox coming off a W.S. title and all three players being home grown, I think most fans would be willing to give all three shot. And to add, Middlebrooks isn't a rookie so from that standpoint, the Sox would only be starting two rookies.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Roy,

     

    I concur with all of the above and further I would say that given that they'll be raising another championship banner the pressure to win now on the organization and Cherington in particular is lessoned which buys them some wiggle room to continue to retool the nucleus. 

    In the end the decision is simple. Do they trust Bogearts to be the every day SS...if the answer is no then they'll sign Drew, move Bogearts to 3rd and Middlebrooks becomes a chip in a deal to acquire another part (CF?). They still have another year before they need to answer the Bradley Jr question. In the short term they can simply go out and add a veteran CF to the mix which will allow them to keep Victorino in RF...

    [/QUOTE]

    I want the Sox to have  UT infielder who can provide insurance if Middlebrooks struggles (or Bogaerts) or to simply to be able to give either a day off or two to regroup. And I want the Sox to have a guy who can play CF to give Bradley some help (Victorino to CF and Nava to RF is OK, but I'd rather have another guy and keep Victorino in RF). But in the end, I want to Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley to have the first shot at 3B, SS and CF.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    As far as I'm concerned, the Sox should start Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley.

    A lot of posters/fans seem to get all bent out of shape at the prospect at starting all three together this year. Personally, I think the Red Sox should go for it. This is what they've been building for. To develop the young players and go with homegrown players whenever possible. 

    Of course, some home grown players will be traded. But the Sox have a potential power-hitting 3B, that hotshot young SS that they've wanted since Nomar, and a protypical CF in Bradley (speed, great defense and a guy who should hit for average and should have some pop -- 15-20 HR).

    So just because we can see weaknesses in any of them, it doesn't mean they can't keep improving, and it doesn't mean that they're not ready now.

    Bogaerts: Most think he's ready and will be the one guy who definitely starts, so let's skip over him.

    Middlebrooks: Take a look at his career thus far. He's played seven full months in the regular season and five of them have been excellent months. Yet too many seem to put more stock in the two bad months and dismiss the five good months. Middlebrooks seems to want to improve and seems even more motivated to prove he belongs after last year's rollarcoaster year. For what the potential upside is, I say put him in at 3B and see if he can be the answer. He has nothing left to prove in the minors, so the only way you'll know for sure is to him in. He did improve in one area last year after working with Lowell -- throwing and getting his footwork right -- and showed better plate discipline late in the year.

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

    It doesn't mean that Bradley will do the same, but it sure shows that it might be worth it to be patient. The upside is so great will all three that it's worth giving all three a shot. And to add, with the Sox coming off a W.S. title and all three players being home grown, I think most fans would be willing to give all three shot. And to add, Middlebrooks isn't a rookie so from that standpoint, the Sox would only be starting two rookies.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Roy,

     

    I concur with all of the above and further I would say that given that they'll be raising another championship banner the pressure to win now on the organization and Cherington in particular is lessoned which buys them some wiggle room to continue to retool the nucleus. 

    In the end the decision is simple. Do they trust Bogearts to be the every day SS...if the answer is no then they'll sign Drew, move Bogearts to 3rd and Middlebrooks becomes a chip in a deal to acquire another part (CF?). They still have another year before they need to answer the Bradley Jr question. In the short term they can simply go out and add a veteran CF to the mix which will allow them to keep Victorino in RF...

    [/QUOTE]

    I want the Sox to have  UT infielder who can provide insurance if Middlebrooks struggles (or Bogaerts) or to simply to be able to give either a day off or two to regroup. And I want the Sox to have a guy who can play CF to give Bradley some help (Victorino to CF and Nava to RF is OK, but I'd rather have another guy and keep Victorino in RF). But in the end, I want to Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley to have the first shot at 3B, SS and CF.

    [/QUOTE]

    So do have any names to offer BenC and the board to be considering? I like names to go along with ideas and recommendations. Thanks.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    michael young...super UT...the guy can play 1B 2B 3B SS

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you do not sell an asset when it is at its lowest value.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    IF..and i mean IF we go after kemp i think middlebrooks might be part of that deal..

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to raider3524's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    michael young...super UT...the guy can play 1B 2B 3B SS

    [/QUOTE]

    Young could be a great fit if he's willing to be a UT guy.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????

    [/QUOTE]

    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
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