Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    michael young...super UT...the guy can play 1B 2B 3B SS




    And he can't play any of those positions well and anyone who uses him as SS for even an inning ever again would be mighty desperate

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to frostyair's comment:

    And I want the Sox to have a guy who can play CF to give Bradley some help


    Rajai Davis, perfect compliment to Bradley. Hits LP better than Ellsbury. 



    & it's the return of Stiffy.  Wants an oft injured, aging, low OPS guy to man CF!  Great call Stiff one!  

     

    Can anybody doubt this guy is a hard core Yankee fan.  His bitterness over the Sox winning in 2013 is legondary!!!!

    Two choices here with the Stiff one:

    1)  He's a bitter Yankee fan!

     

    2)  He really is so narcissistically twisted that he simply can't enjoy the Sox WS Championship all because he was wrong about literally everything concerning the Sox in 2013.  

    *  I go with option 2, as he was manifestly wrong abouth literally everything.  He was manifestly bitter.  He was manifestly unhappier with every win.  His narcissism is legendary.  He's never admitted to a single incorrect call in all his time on BDC.  He's clearly bat-sh..dung crazy....  ;)  & he continues to say he's a Red Sox fan.  Therefor, he's either a liar, or an out of control, bitter narcissist who clearly can't handle being proven wrong about anything.....   & we all know he was PROVEN WRONG about 99.999% of all his predictions, prognostications, & opinions in 2013.  Very sad record for a troubled narcissist.  I'm not even sure this new Stiffy character is the original, as his baseball knowledge seems to have completely disappeared, & his ability to sound remotely like a pretend lawyer is Gone Baby Gone........

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    Look, we don't have much money left to spend (b/t 10 and 15)

    We have too much tied up in starting pitching - someone needs to get dumped

    If that happens then we can keep Drew

    That also gives us wiggle room to add one more sizeable contract (like some to platoon w/ Day to Day Clay if he is not dealt or for a mid season acquisition)

    But right now, if they want to stay under the LT, then Drew is out which means Middlebrooks HAS to stay

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    michael young...super UT...the guy can play 1B 2B 3B SS




    And he can't play any of those positions well and anyone who uses him as SS for even an inning ever again would be mighty desperate



    I think like Nava, Carp & Gomes he would be a great fit at the right price.  Young is definatey no longer capable of playing SS but he can more than hold his own at 3B, 2B, 1B or DH not to mention being another hungry veteran and team player.

    Young is also a better hitter than the Holt, Snyder and Diaz type guys we tried last season.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????



    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

    Not selling SHORT, his value actually is in a PACKAGE........  Not all of you T-BALLERS understands that !!!


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????



    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

    Not selling SHORT, his value actually is in a PACKAGE........  Not all of you T-BALLERS understands that !!!





    Billy,  Thank you for confirming your baseball ignorance!  Inherent in a package deal is the notion / fact that the guy being packaged is of so little value that he needs to be "packaged" in order to get something of greater value.  The Sox do not yet know the value of Middy, & that is with putting up some historic power numbers over 162 games, non-consecutively, but 162 games nontheless...  You desperately wanting to "package" Middy with 3 other guys is a de facto concession of his perceived (by you) lack of value.  Packaging Middy at this point would in fact be an admission that the Sox no longer see him being able to develop into a tier 1 or high tier 2 player.  I would agree that the guy is never going to be a "great" 3rd baseman, but I do believe he can become a very good 1st baseman, or an above average - average 3rd baseman.  Average might just be good enough, if he can really learn plate discipline.  The question is, can he?  I'm not sure, but his BIG stick is worth the time investment.  His bat does not come around every year!  & neither does his athleticism.  

    If packaged, it would of course be selling short!  Leave the big questions to the real baseball minds Billy....  ;)   Stick to T-Ball :)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    I dont think he would trade him straight up for Logan Morrison, which is the new rumor. Nor would I. Anything is possible, but unless the return is pretty good, I dont see them letting Middy go. A guy like Morrison isnt going to do it.



    The Napoli signing ends any interest they may have had in Morrison, Southpaw, which may have been a simple rumor generated to push Naps.  




    And I was glad to hear Naps signing because of that jasko. You know I value the raw power of guys like Middy and Brentz and I would like them to have longer leashes than some impatient "fans" here would like. Some guys dont develop until 25ish. Not all MLB players are there at age 23. Every player develops and grows at a different pace. With the raw power and Potential he has, It would be silly to give up on him now.




    Exactly... he is making league minimum and projected to have 2.5 WAR with 25 HR next year according to Steamer and Oliver projections averaged together.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7002&position=3B

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    I'm not saying I am for bringing Drew back, but by trading Dempster & Gomes or Peavy alone, we could sign Drew and stay under the luxury limit. Moving Bogey to 3B would allow us to trade Carp or Middlebrooks for a decent OF option to compliment or possibly replace JBJ in CF if he struggles next year. Trading Carp makes more sense in this scenario, since Middy could play  3B or 3B in case of injury, but if Gomes (and dempster) are traded not Peavy, then Carp could be utilized more in LF.

    As for Brentz, I know this team has not had man big power bats come up through our system in recent years, but that should lead us to the tendency to get all gushy over the few that put up big numbers in the minors or in short MLB stints. History is littered with minor league power giants who never amount to squat in the bigs.

    Here are all the Sox prospects with big HR per AB ratios since 2007 (20+ HRs or an awesome ratio):

    2007: Aaron Bates 28 HRs/464ABs, Bubba Bell 26/469, Jon Still 25/440, Brad Correll 23/250 (Wow! what a ratio!), Z Daeges 21/515, S White 21/465, Reddick 18/370

    2008: Van Every 26/380, J Bailey 25/418, C Carter 24/470, Reddick 23/482, Still 22/456, Kottaras 22/395, L Exposito 21/417, J Stanley 18/308

    2009: Lavarnway 21/404

    2010: Rizzo 25/531,, Spears 20/514,  Reddick 18/451, R Rodriguez 14/278

    2011: Lava 32/435, Brentz 30/458, Middy 23/439, M Head 22/495, Chang 18/321, Vazquez 18/392, Jacobs 17/442, Bogey 16/265, Reddick 14/191

    2012: M Gomez 24/387, Bogey 20/475, de la Cruz 20/499, T Shaw 19/462, Hazelbaker 19/466, Brentz 17/463, Linares 16/413, R Rodriguez 16/370

    2013: D Chester 19/432, Brentz 19/343, Coyle 16/240, Butler 14/282

    Yes, there are a few on this list that may end up with decent MLB careers, but a pretty big majority will not. I'm not saying the odds doom Brentz or Middy, but I think some of us may be relying too much on hope than probability. (No disrespect intended)

     

    On Middlebrooks and Brentz. Moon is right in that there have been plenty of guys in the minors who showed great power potential only to fizzle. However, because power bats are hard to find, that is all the more reason to be patient with them.

    As far as plate discipline. There's nothing wrong with having a couple of free swingers in the lineup if you're getting the power and run production. Wouldn't want an entire lineup of free swingers but two or three surrounded by guys who work the count is fine.

     

    And Middlebrooks showed better plate discipline when he was called back up. He had just nine walks in 216 PA in the first half and 11 BB in 158 PA after being called back up. He batted .276 with a .329 OBP when he was called back up. If he does that and provides 30 HR and 90-plus RBIs, that would be great. - Roy

     

    I'm not lessening the value of Middy or Brentz by saying maybe we can trade one or both. The value some of you place on these two is the same as what othesome other GMs might place on them.

    I'm also fine with having 1 or 2 guys in the line-up with limited discipline. It worked nicely with Beltre. Sometime you need an alternative type hitter in your line-up when some starter is mowing everyone of our patient hitters down. Bam! The undisciplined guy just bashed a pitch out of the K zone over the fence!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to royf19's comment:

    As far as I'm concerned, the Sox should start Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley.

    A lot of posters/fans seem to get all bent out of shape at the prospect at starting all three together this year. Personally, I think the Red Sox should go for it. This is what they've been building for. To develop the young players and go with homegrown players whenever possible. 

    Of course, some home grown players will be traded. But the Sox have a potential power-hitting 3B, that hotshot young SS that they've wanted since Nomar, and a protypical CF in Bradley (speed, great defense and a guy who should hit for average and should have some pop -- 15-20 HR).

    So just because we can see weaknesses in any of them, it doesn't mean they can't keep improving, and it doesn't mean that they're not ready now.

    Bogaerts: Most think he's ready and will be the one guy who definitely starts, so let's skip over him.

    Middlebrooks: Take a look at his career thus far. He's played seven full months in the regular season and five of them have been excellent months. Yet too many seem to put more stock in the two bad months and dismiss the five good months. Middlebrooks seems to want to improve and seems even more motivated to prove he belongs after last year's rollarcoaster year. For what the potential upside is, I say put him in at 3B and see if he can be the answer. He has nothing left to prove in the minors, so the only way you'll know for sure is to him in. He did improve in one area last year after working with Lowell -- throwing and getting his footwork right -- and showed better plate discipline late in the year.

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

    It doesn't mean that Bradley will do the same, but it sure shows that it might be worth it to be patient. The upside is so great will all three that it's worth giving all three a shot. And to add, with the Sox coming off a W.S. title and all three players being home grown, I think most fans would be willing to give all three shot. And to add, Middlebrooks isn't a rookie so from that standpoint, the Sox would only be starting two rookies.



    I had hoped we'd only have to start 2 of these 3 guys, but I'm fine with all 3 as long as we remain strong at other positions, which it seems like we have.

    I'd still like to add an OF'er who can play CF well and take over if JBJ struggles. I'd also like to add a cheap defensive whiz SS in case WMB struggles and we can slide Bogey over to 3B.

    Replacing Ellsbury, Drew and Salty is not going to be easy. We may need some great luck on the health front. A full season by Buchholz, Uehara at closer, Workman, Britton, Victorino, WMB, Ross, Miller, Morales, and others could help even out those losses.

    I'm feeling confident about 2014, but right now, we are not going to be the favorites. We may not even be a top 4 favorite when all is said and done this winter.

    I'm still thinking we have a big move or two in mind. Trade Dempster or Peavy and maybe Gomes or Carp and fill the CF/IF insurance issues as well as free up some money for July moves needed to fill a hole here or there.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????




    I doubt Middy leaves but one never knows.  I thought they would have made a better effort to keep Salty.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????

     



     

    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

    Not selling SHORT, his value actually is in a PACKAGE........  Not all of you T-BALLERS understands that !!!





    Billy,  Thank you for confirming your baseball ignorance!  Inherent in a package deal is the notion / fact that the guy being packaged is of so little value that he needs to be "packaged" in order to get something of greater value.  The Sox do not yet know the value of Middy, & that is with putting up some historic power numbers over 162 games, non-consecutively, but 162 games nontheless...  You desperately wanting to "package" Middy with 3 other guys is a de facto concession of his perceived (by you) lack of value.  Packaging Middy at this point would in fact be an admission that the Sox no longer see him being able to develop into a tier 1 or high tier 2 player.  I would agree that the guy is never going to be a "great" 3rd baseman, but I do believe he can become a very good 1st baseman, or an above average - average 3rd baseman.  Average might just be good enough, if he can really learn plate discipline.  The question is, can he?  I'm not sure, but his BIG stick is worth the time investment.  His bat does not come around every year!  & neither does his athleticism.  

    If packaged, it would of course be selling short!  Leave the big questions to the real baseball minds Billy....  ;)   Stick to T-Ball :)

    Thank you soooo much for your help here...... But, you are working way too hard and making baseball transactions looking tough to do ........  Just watch  BEN, DAD, & B-806..... We will show you the way !!!        BTW, enjoy your ice cream on the way home !!!!   Hope that your team won today !!!


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    The problem with Middy is he doesn't look good on tv. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????

     

     



     

     

    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

    Not selling SHORT, his value actually is in a PACKAGE........  Not all of you T-BALLERS understands that !!!





    Billy,  Thank you for confirming your baseball ignorance!  Inherent in a package deal is the notion / fact that the guy being packaged is of so little value that he needs to be "packaged" in order to get something of greater value.  The Sox do not yet know the value of Middy, & that is with putting up some historic power numbers over 162 games, non-consecutively, but 162 games nontheless...  You desperately wanting to "package" Middy with 3 other guys is a de facto concession of his perceived (by you) lack of value.  Packaging Middy at this point would in fact be an admission that the Sox no longer see him being able to develop into a tier 1 or high tier 2 player.  I would agree that the guy is never going to be a "great" 3rd baseman, but I do believe he can become a very good 1st baseman, or an above average - average 3rd baseman.  Average might just be good enough, if he can really learn plate discipline.  The question is, can he?  I'm not sure, but his BIG stick is worth the time investment.  His bat does not come around every year!  & neither does his athleticism.  

    If packaged, it would of course be selling short!  Leave the big questions to the real baseball minds Billy....  ;)   Stick to T-Ball :)

    Thank you soooo much for your help here...... But, you are working way too hard and making baseball transactions looking tough to do ........  Just watch  BEN, DAD, & B-806..... We will show you the way !!!        BTW, enjoy your ice cream on the way home !!!!   Hope that your team won today !!!





    Lil' Billy,   It's heartening to see you get off to making all the wrong calls again this off season, as you did last.  If the Sox can stay away from listening to you & Stiffy, we have a chance at a pretty decent season in dealing with all the FA tumult.  God forbid the Sox listen to the two of you now after your historic misread last year.    If they had listened to you two stooges last off-season, the Sox never would have won the WC in 2013.  My record in 2013 was pretty much perfect, as I heartily agreed withh all of BC's moves, where you were vosiforously opposed to most.  I even came up a few games short when I predicted 91 - 71 all the way back in March.  I believe you called for 79 wins with our roster?  20 off ain't bad for a minor leager like yourself :)   Of course, you & your Yankee buddy Stiffy were proven dead wrong, & the rest is history.  :)  We won!  You & Stiffy were manifest losers in 2013.  I will at least concede that you seemed happy with the win, but you still mistake Stiffy to be an actual RS fan, as opposed to the self-serving narcissist he has proven himself to be.

    btw billy.....  If you're going to tout your mlb knowledge as being above little league level, you might want to pad your resume just a bit more.  Just one correct call would help your cause immesurably.  ;)

    Start with small ball billy!  You always make the mistake of swining for the fences when you are still looking for your first big league hit.  ;)  LOL

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????

     

     



     

     

    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

     

    Not selling SHORT, his value actually is in a PACKAGE........  Not all of you T-BALLERS understands that !!!


     




    Billy,  Thank you for confirming your baseball ignorance!  Inherent in a package deal is the notion / fact that the guy being packaged is of so little value that he needs to be "packaged" in order to get something of greater value.  The Sox do not yet know the value of Middy, & that is with putting up some historic power numbers over 162 games, non-consecutively, but 162 games nontheless...  You desperately wanting to "package" Middy with 3 other guys is a de facto concession of his perceived (by you) lack of value.  Packaging Middy at this point would in fact be an admission that the Sox no longer see him being able to develop into a tier 1 or high tier 2 player.  I would agree that the guy is never going to be a "great" 3rd baseman, but I do believe he can become a very good 1st baseman, or an above average - average 3rd baseman.  Average might just be good enough, if he can really learn plate discipline.  The question is, can he?  I'm not sure, but his BIG stick is worth the time investment.  His bat does not come around every year!  & neither does his athleticism.  

    If packaged, it would of course be selling short!  Leave the big questions to the real baseball minds Billy....  ;)   Stick to T-Ball :)

    Thank you soooo much for your help here...... But, you are working way too hard and making baseball transactions looking tough to do ........  Just watch  BEN, DAD, & B-806..... We will show you the way !!!        BTW, enjoy your ice cream on the way home !!!!   Hope that your team won today !!!





    Lil' Billy,   It's heartening to see you get off to making all the wrong calls again this off season, as you did last.  If the Sox can stay away from listening to you & Stiffy, we have a chance at a pretty decent season in dealing with all the FA tumult.  God forbid the Sox listen to the two of you now after your historic misread last year.    If they had listened to you two stooges last off-season, the Sox never would have won the WC in 2013.  My record in 2013 was pretty much perfect, as I heartily agreed withh all of BC's moves, where you were vosiforously opposed to most.  I even came up a few games short when I predicted 91 - 71 all the way back in March.  I believe you called for 79 wins with our roster?  20 off ain't bad for a minor leager like yourself :)   Of course, you & your Yankee buddy Stiffy were proven dead wrong, & the rest is history.  :)  We won!  You & Stiffy were manifest losers in 2013.  I will at least concede that you seemed happy with the win, but you still mistake Stiffy to be an actual RS fan, as opposed to the self-serving narcissist he has proven himself to be.

    btw billy.....  If you're going to tout your mlb knowledge as being above little league level, you might want to pad your resume just a bit more.  Just one correct call would help your cause immesurably.  ;)

    Start with small ball billy!  You always make the mistake of swining for the fences when you are still looking for your first big league hit.  ;)  LOL

    Thanks again for all your compliments !!!    BTW, why SOFTY is no longer with us, is because he took a job as BEN's right hand man in baseball opps.........  Now what do you have to say !!!!


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    you would be dumb to re-sign Drew for 45 mil/3 or whatever he wants and shift XB to 3b...just give Middlebrooks the job and let him play all year long....if he cant get the job done then Hanley will be available in 2015 and only 31 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you would be dumb to re-sign Drew for 45 mil/3 or whatever he wants and shift XB to 3b...just give Middlebrooks the job and let him play all year long....if he cant get the job done then Hanley will be available in 2015 and only 31 




    Drew ain't getting 3/45 from anyone, ever except maybe da cash man

     

    he probably wants 3 @ 12 for 36 but I'd give him 2 @ 28.3 but that's only if I could fit it in my budget....worst-case I take the draft pick and chuckle that he had to settle for another 1 year deal at less money........I'd think - ask your brother for a hand out if run low on funds....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Or at least a conversation to set up bigger things .......  Ben C is certainly in the drivers seat  !!!!     What say you ????

     

     



     

     

    Not that billy knows anything beyond rank speculation, but I personally think it's fool-hearty to move Middy at this point.  It's selling short.  It would certainly be wiser to give the kid another crack at 3rd, & showcase that big bat of his.  I personally wouldn't give up on the kid at all, as the Sox will certainly need another big stick in the 2014 lineup.  Move Boggy to SS, & go with it.  2014 is going to be a work in progress season, working through the growing pains of a few young guys, including JBJ.  Middy, if he needs to be moved at all, will certainly have a much higher market value come the trade deadline in 2014.  Time wll tell, but it could easily be argued that Iggy was moved way too early, if he should have been moved at all.  I'm ok with Iggy, as there is a valid argument that the Sox don't win in 2013 without Peavy???  Still undecided about that, as Lester & Lackey are the biggest factor in the WS win.  Peavy had very little to do with it.

    Look at Pedroia.  You don't build championship teams by giving up too soon on your young talent!  Not that Middy is necessarily in that league, or ever will be?  You just don't give up on a big stick that quickly.  I think the kid could be decent at 3rd, & eventually a great option at 1st, post Naps!  If we give up on him now, we lose out down the road.  I don't see Middy as just another Pen'a, with nothing more than a big bat.  I don't see anybody giving us much for Middy right now, & a package deal does nothing more than mask how little we are actually getting for his potential!!!

     

    Not selling SHORT, his value actually is in a PACKAGE........  Not all of you T-BALLERS understands that !!!


     




    Billy,  Thank you for confirming your baseball ignorance!  Inherent in a package deal is the notion / fact that the guy being packaged is of so little value that he needs to be "packaged" in order to get something of greater value.  The Sox do not yet know the value of Middy, & that is with putting up some historic power numbers over 162 games, non-consecutively, but 162 games nontheless...  You desperately wanting to "package" Middy with 3 other guys is a de facto concession of his perceived (by you) lack of value.  Packaging Middy at this point would in fact be an admission that the Sox no longer see him being able to develop into a tier 1 or high tier 2 player.  I would agree that the guy is never going to be a "great" 3rd baseman, but I do believe he can become a very good 1st baseman, or an above average - average 3rd baseman.  Average might just be good enough, if he can really learn plate discipline.  The question is, can he?  I'm not sure, but his BIG stick is worth the time investment.  His bat does not come around every year!  & neither does his athleticism.  

    If packaged, it would of course be selling short!  Leave the big questions to the real baseball minds Billy....  ;)   Stick to T-Ball :)

    Thank you soooo much for your help here...... But, you are working way too hard and making baseball transactions looking tough to do ........  Just watch  BEN, DAD, & B-806..... We will show you the way !!!        BTW, enjoy your ice cream on the way home !!!!   Hope that your team won today !!!





    Lil' Billy,   It's heartening to see you get off to making all the wrong calls again this off season, as you did last.  If the Sox can stay away from listening to you & Stiffy, we have a chance at a pretty decent season in dealing with all the FA tumult.  God forbid the Sox listen to the two of you now after your historic misread last year.    If they had listened to you two stooges last off-season, the Sox never would have won the WC in 2013.  My record in 2013 was pretty much perfect, as I heartily agreed withh all of BC's moves, where you were vosiforously opposed to most.  I even came up a few games short when I predicted 91 - 71 all the way back in March.  I believe you called for 79 wins with our roster?  20 off ain't bad for a minor leager like yourself :)   Of course, you & your Yankee buddy Stiffy were proven dead wrong, & the rest is history.  :)  We won!  You & Stiffy were manifest losers in 2013.  I will at least concede that you seemed happy with the win, but you still mistake Stiffy to be an actual RS fan, as opposed to the self-serving narcissist he has proven himself to be.

    btw billy.....  If you're going to tout your mlb knowledge as being above little league level, you might want to pad your resume just a bit more.  Just one correct call would help your cause immesurably.  ;)

    Start with small ball billy!  You always make the mistake of swining for the fences when you are still looking for your first big league hit.  ;)  LOL

    Thanks again for all your compliments !!!    BTW, why SOFTY is no longer with us, is because he took a job as BEN's right hand man in baseball opps.........  Now what do you have to say !!!!





    Just a few points billy....

    1)  At least you're smart enough to know when you're over-matched.

    2)  You understand that a good defense is a good change of subject :)

    3)  You may be wrong more often than Obama, but at least you come across as somewhat humble & self-effacing 

    4)  You may be one of our most misguided vociforous fans, but I actually think you are all Red Sox fan nonetheless.

    5)  You've got a blind spot for the truly reprehensible Stiffy, but you seem like a half decent bloke yourself

    6)  Thanks for being wrong so often, as it serves a greater good :)

    7)  Just curious???  Was your call 79 wins before the season in 2013?  I think it was?

    8)  What does Stiffy's "strap" really smell like?

    9)  When the Sox keep Middy, will you bow before me & sing hail to the king?

    10)  Who's your daddy? ;)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you would be dumb to re-sign Drew for 45 mil/3 or whatever he wants and shift XB to 3b...just give Middlebrooks the job and let him play all year long....if he cant get the job done then Hanley will be available in 2015 and only 31 




    Drew ain't getting 3/45 from anyone, ever except maybe da cash man

     

    he probably wants 3 @ 12 for 36 but I'd give him 2 @ 28.3 but that's only if I could fit it in my budget....worst-case I take the draft pick and chuckle that he had to settle for another 1 year deal at less money........I'd think - ask your brother for a hand out if run low on funds....



    Drew might end up wishing he took the QO.

    I'm not for trading Middy just for the sake of dumping him. As I have said a couple hundred times over the past 2 years, I prefer a better SS  with glove & range and Bogey moving to 3B, but I'm okay with the left-side IF as is, as long as we get a better utility guy than Holt and Snyder.

    I liked Rajai Davis at first, but the more I hear about his so-so defense, I'm not high on him anymore. In Fenway, you need plus defense in CF. Davis does hit lefties well, but so fo scores of other ML OF'ers and we may want someone who platoons with JBJ.

    Now that Napoli is signed for 2 years, Cecchini & Middy's not moving there for a while barring injury to Naps. If Papi retires after 2014, Napoli could play some at DH depending on Middy's defense at 1B or if we pick up someone else at 1B.

    I am also thinking Cecchini may be pushing the bigs by May or June. We can hold of on trading Middy until July, if that comes through. For now, I'd go with Middy and Bogey at 3B and SS, but trade Dempster & Gomes for a decent compliment to JBJ in CF and a decent left-side utility IF'er. Or, we could trade Peavy for the same. The salary relief could help us now or in July.

    I'm okay with finding a SS and moving Bogey to 3B, but Drew would cost too much, and I've fallen in love with the comp picks in next year's deep draft. If there is someone else available, I can see it happening. Then, we could trade Middy for the CF'er insurance and keep the pitching depth until a July trade or all year, if needed. I'm not trying to dis Middy, although I clearly have less faith in his projections than some here. I think it is more out of my love for Cecchini. I have been very high on him for 2 years. Another possibility is to trade Carp or Gomes for a CF'er or left-side IF'er or both.

    I like our team as it stands now. Hats off to Ben. Last winter, I had hoped he'd do more for the longterm future, and I got a bit testy at times, but I always said, this team only became truly his with the Dodger trade, and he deserved a chance to prove himself. He did just that!

    It will be fun watching JBJ and Bogey. I hope Middy fields like 2012, can keep his OBP near .310 and shows us that power we haven't seen at 3B since Beltre.

    I am really looking forward to 2014.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you would be dumb to re-sign Drew for 45 mil/3 or whatever he wants and shift XB to 3b...just give Middlebrooks the job and let him play all year long....if he cant get the job done then Hanley will be available in 2015 and only 31 




    Drew ain't getting 3/45 from anyone, ever except maybe da cash man

     

    he probably wants 3 @ 12 for 36 but I'd give him 2 @ 28.3 but that's only if I could fit it in my budget....worst-case I take the draft pick and chuckle that he had to settle for another 1 year deal at less money........I'd think - ask your brother for a hand out if run low on funds....



    Drew might end up wishing he took the QO.

    I'm not for trading Middy just for the sake of dumping him. As I have said a couple hundred times over the past 2 years, I prefer a better SS  with glove & range and Bogey moving to 3B, but I'm okay with the left-side IF as is, as long as we get a better utility guy than Holt and Snyder.

    I liked Rajai Davis at first, but the more I hear about his so-so defense, I'm not high on him anymore. In Fenway, you need plus defense in CF. Davis does hit lefties well, but so fo scores of other ML OF'ers and we may want someone who platoons with JBJ.

    Now that Napoli is signed for 2 years, Cecchini & Middy's not moving there for a while barring injury to Naps. If Papi retires after 2014, Napoli could play some at DH depending on Middy's defense at 1B or if we pick up someone else at 1B.

    I am also thinking Cecchini may be pushing the bigs by May or June. We can hold of on trading Middy until July, if that comes through. For now, I'd go with Middy and Bogey at 3B and SS, but trade Dempster & Gomes for a decent compliment to JBJ in CF and a decent left-side utility IF'er. Or, we could trade Peavy for the same. The salary relief could help us now or in July.

    I'm okay with finding a SS and moving Bogey to 3B, but Drew would cost too much, and I've fallen in love with the comp picks in next year's deep draft. If there is someone else available, I can see it happening. Then, we could trade Middy for the CF'er insurance and keep the pitching depth until a July trade or all year, if needed. I'm not trying to dis Middy, although I clearly have less faith in his projections than some here. I think it is more out of my love for Cecchini. I have been very high on him for 2 years. Another possibility is to trade Carp or Gomes for a CF'er or left-side IF'er or both.

    I like our team as it stands now. Hats off to Ben. Last winter, I had hoped he'd do more for the longterm future, and I got a bit testy at times, but I always said, this team only became truly his with the Dodger trade, and he deserved a chance to prove himself. He did just that!

    It will be fun watching JBJ and Bogey. I hope Middy fields like 2012, can keep his OBP near .310 and shows us that power we haven't seen at 3B since Beltre.

    I am really looking forward to 2014.



    hard to argue w/ any of this but I'd like to hang onto Carp

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    I'd rather trade Gomes and keep Carp as our back-up 1Bman and LF platoon with Nava. This assumes we pick up a 4th OF'er who can play CF. I want to keep Victorino in CF and Nava in LF, if at all possible.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    If Sox resigns Drew, maybe they can make a trade with the yankees.  Middlebrook for Gardner.  Both team will not get any better than each other.

    I would take Gardner and have him to bat lead off with Victorino as a #2 hitter, then Pedy, Papi, Napoli, Bogaerts, AJ, Gomes/Nava and Drew

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

     

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have been preaching the same numbers myself about Pedroia and Bradley.  The thing that the stats don't show you is the type of personality that Bradley has.  He has a calm and confident leadership quality that can be seen in how he handles himself.  He has a humbleness that translates well to those around him liking him.

    Combine his future leadership along with the same qualities I see out of Xander and you have a strong core of leaders up the middle.  I feel that Pedroia became a better leader because of his struggles early in his career and I predict the same for JBJ.

    You give him the keys and sign a veteran to back him up when he struggles and let the kid learn on the job.  There is no substitute for just doing it.  We will miss Ells in year one as there will be a production drop off, but it will pay dividends for the patient fan as he matures in the game with Xander.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'd rather trade Gomes and keep Carp as our back-up 1Bman and LF platoon with Nava. This assumes we pick up a 4th OF'er who can play CF. I want to keep Victorino in CF and Nava in LF, if at all possible.



    I think the Sox keep Gomes and Carp.  Carp clearly has more value being that he can also play a very gGood 1st base, if we have to let one go.  I definitely like Vic in CF, but I'm not confident in JBJ manning LF.  Are you assuming they keep JBJ down on the farm?  It might make more sense to keep Vic in RF, as we know he's a hell of a LF'r, & LF at Fenway is no joke!  what's the word on JBJ?  Are the Sox leaning toward bringing him up?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

     

    Bradley: There are questions about if hes ready to hit in the majors. It's funny because there were numerous comparisons between Iggy's struggle at the plate and Pedroia's early struggles. The problem with that is that Iggy never hit in the minors as well as Pedroia did. Bradley, however, has hit well and yet no one seems to make the Bradley-Pedroia comparision, which is a better one.

    Bradley has a .297 BA and .876 OPS for his career in the minors in 989 plate appearances. Pedroia's minor league numbers were .304 BA/.844 OPS for 1,223 PA. Fairly similar. Pedroia batted .191 in his first 98 PA and about .186 for his first 163 PA when you include the first month of 2007. And look at what did.

     



    I have been preaching the same numbers myself about Pedroia and Bradley.  The thing that the stats don't show you is the type of personality that Bradley has.  He has a calm and confident leadership quality that can be seen in how he handles himself.  He has a humbleness that translates well to those around him liking him.

    Combine his future leadership along with the same qualities I see out of Xander and you have a strong core of leaders up the middle.  I feel that Pedroia became a better leader because of his struggles early in his career and I predict the same for JBJ.

    You give him the keys and sign a veteran to back him up when he struggles and let the kid learn on the job.  There is no substitute for just doing it.  We will miss Ells in year one as there will be a production drop off, but it will pay dividends for the patient fan as he matures in the game with Xander.



    AGREED :)

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Middlebrooks will be moved @ the winter meetings ..........

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Oliver* projects a .232/.282/.419/.701 line for Bryce Brentz (23 homeruns, 78 RBI, -0.1 WAR) and a .256/.304/.462/.766 line for Will Middlebrooks (27 homeruns, 89 RBI, 2.8 WAR**).

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa392232&position=OF

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7002&position=3B

    * Oliver assumes 143 games and 600 plate appearances for each player

    ** Middlebrooks' WAR projection includes a significant increase in defensive value




    So Oliver is saying Brentz is a hack in the field if he lost that much value.  Honestly, I think Middlebrooks isn't all that great at third.  We were spoiled by Mike Lowell and seeing what a real third baseman should be.  Bill Meuller and Youks were both better defensively as well if I am recalling correctly.

     
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