Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    I like the idea of getting Hosmer if Doubront and maybe Bailey (or another reliever not named Tazawa or Morales) would be enough.  Then BC has to sign Haren and Sanchez or possibly Marcum.  I also like signing Ichiro for a 1-year deal with mutual option.  Sox do not need to sign Upton and Bourn to long-term deals.  In two years they will have Bradley and Brentz, very much similar production with far less cost and much more devotion to the team, IMO.

    But Napoli?. No.  And trade for V-Mart?  Not going to happen without including Barnes and/or Bradley.  Just not worth it.  He is a great hitter, and a team leader, but a mediocre 1bman defensively and an on-going injury risk on the wrong side of 30 (and by more than just a bit). 

    I would much rather the Sox re-sign Youkilis (though I do not expect this to happen) than pay 4/40 for Napoli, especially if they trade for Hosmer first.  All you need then is a bridge.  Youk will have offensive numbers very similar to Napoli in all likelihood, and he is far better defensively.  He is also likely to cost much less than what folks here are suggesting Napoli is worth.  Sox do NOT need a Napoli as a backup catcher, even if Salty or Lava are traded (Butler as the 3rd string catcher 45 minutes away in Pawtucket is enough).

    Remember, Napoli is NOT going to be batting in Fenway facing the pitchers who made him so successful in his two-a-year visits here.  He will not have the same success here in a Boston uniform as he did in an Angels or Rangers uniform.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    Kendry Morales would make the perfect bridge.

    He has huge upside.

     

    Mike Morse has one year of team control with the Nats. Although I hate paying high in prospects for one year of control, perhaps we could extend him as part of a deal.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Kendry Morales would make the perfect bridge.

    He has huge upside.

     

    Mike Morse has one year of team control with the Nats. Although I hate paying high in prospects for one year of control, perhaps we could extend him as part of a deal.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Trading for Morse is a good option but he will cost top prospects, is the same age as Naps, and has a considerable worse injury history.  Morse isnt going to accept a 3/30 either.  He's going to use the last year of team control in Fenway to pad his stats and then sign a 4 year deal at 32 that is going to make whatever contract Napoli gets look like a bargain. 

    Morales has a career OPS in the .700's.  He isnt in Napoli's league regarding hitting.  And bridge to who, Moon?  The #342nd ranked MLB prospect Travis Shaw?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    Lester and Buchholz arent old.  DOubie's K numbers were extremely impressive last year.  Morales may start, Tazawa may start.  De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes are serious MLB prospects.  One should be a #2, one a #3, and one a fizzle.  The SOx have young pitching.

    Leadoff , high OBP guys can be found.  What the Sox dont have in the system is 30HR power 1B/corner outfielders. This is because teams know these guys are extremely hard to acquire and are therefore always drafted before the sox pick.   

    This is a chance to acquire one of the best hitting first baseman in the MLB.  Better hitter than Tex, Morneau before coming to Fenway and getting away from Catching (which will slow the aging process).  Just turned 31 and isnt old.

    If you dont sign Napoli, trading for Morse is the next best option.  Morse is a beast but if you go this route, you are giving up 2 top prospects for one year of Morse who is the same age, has a worse injury history, and probably isnt going to extend.  Id use Fenway to pad my stats , then hit free agency at 32 if I was Morse.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    we need an Ace...get that done first, then fill in the rest...foundation first, not last

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we need an Ace...get that done first, then fill in the rest...foundation first, not last

    [/QUOTE]

    We're not getting an ace this year, geo.  The only potential ace available is Greinke and his cost will be through the roof, plus he's going to be able to pick and choose where he wants to play, and it's doubtful that would be Boston.  I'd settle for a Sanchez or a Marcum at this point.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    I wonder how much Napoli's desire to remain primarily a catcher is affecting his decision to sign with a team like the Sox who view him as primarily as a 1B.  Is it just a bargaining tactic, or does he truly want to be a full time catcher?

    At any rate, Napoli is worth a two year deal, IMO.  Since that is not likely to happen, I can understand the Sox offering him three.  Giving him a 4 year deal would be a mistake.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we need an Ace...get that done first, then fill in the rest...foundation first, not last

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Doubtful any pitcher will be available that Sox fans consider an "ace."   Lester is considered an ace by plenty of fans, but Sox fans refuse to believe he has that ability sdespite his repeatedly posting low ERAs and winning games.  If 2012 is proof he is not an ace, one would think Linceucm should also be disqualified from that honor, but apprently not so.

     

    Really, since no one has an actual defintion of an "ace",  no one knows if one is available, if we have one, or who we should get to fill the need.   Watching Sox fans argue over an ace would be like reading about Ahab hunting for the Great White Bigfoot...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    When we signed J. D. Drew for 5 years there was virtually no way he was going to be worth it in that 5th year.  It was more like a 4 year deal with a bonus year given to Drew.  If we give Napoli the 4th year the same principle would apply, IMO.  It's the cost of free agency.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When we signed J. D. Drew for 5 years there was virtually no way he was going to be worth it in that 5th year.  It was more like a 4 year deal with a bonus year given to Drew.  If we give Napoli the 4th year the same principle would apply, IMO.  It's the cost of free agency.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly.  Its go the extra year or never sign an impact free agent again. Was anyone expecting AGON or Craw to be worth the amt paid in the final yrs of their deals?  Is anyone expecting CC or Tex to be worth the final amts at the end of their deals?  FIelders?

    Here are your options: overspend on free agents (but carefully manage when/how) or dont be a perennial competitor.  Thinking you can compete year after year w/out signing free agents is a pipe dream.

    Four years for Napoli (who will be 34 at the end of the deal), isnt that bad considering this is free agency and he has comparable offensive stats to AGON.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    Put Naps at first, trade for Stanton/JUPP and we compete in 2013,2014,2015.  So what that Napoli will be overpaid in 2016.  Maybe even slightly in 2015.  We have the resources to manage around that.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    This team competes for a championshp:

    Ells

    Pedey

    Ortiz

    J.Upton

    Napoli

    Nava/Gomes

    Middlebrooks

    Lava/Ross

    Iggy

    Buchh/Lester/De La Rosa/Doubront/Lackey

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we need an Ace...get that done first, then fill in the rest...foundation first, not last

    [/QUOTE]

    Grienke is a ROY and Cy Young award winner...how many sox pitchers have those credentials?  ben is just too chickenchit to pull the trigger....seems like he has great success so far but ben is a "glass is half empty kind of guy"

     

    Doubtful any pitcher will be available that Sox fans consider an "ace."   Lester is considered an ace by plenty of fans, but Sox fans refuse to believe he has that ability sdespite his repeatedly posting low ERAs and winning games.  If 2012 is proof he is not an ace, one would think Linceucm should also be disqualified from that honor, but apprently not so.

     

    Really, since no one has an actual defintion of an "ace",  no one knows if one is available, if we have one, or who we should get to fill the need.   Watching Sox fans argue over an ace would be like reading about Ahab hunting for the Great White Bigfoot...

    [/QUOTE]


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Kendry Morales would make the perfect bridge.

    He has huge upside.

     

    Mike Morse has one year of team control with the Nats. Although I hate paying high in prospects for one year of control, perhaps we could extend him as part of a deal.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Trading for Morse is a good option but he will cost top prospects, is the same age as Naps, and has a considerable worse injury history.  Morse isnt going to accept a 3/30 either.  He's going to use the last year of team control in Fenway to pad his stats and then sign a 4 year deal at 32 that is going to make whatever contract Napoli gets look like a bargain. 

    Morales has a career OPS in the .700's.  He isnt in Napoli's league regarding hitting.  And bridge to who, Moon?  The #342nd ranked MLB prospect Travis Shaw?

    [/QUOTE]

    This is a down FA class year. 1Bmen are usually very plentiful, either by free agency or via trade. Morales would be a "bridge" to a better option than Naps or LaRoche.

    BTW, I actually like Travis Shaw and thinbk he may move up quickly.

    Kendrys' career OPS is not in the 700's: it is .823. He averages about 30 HRs per 660 PAs. His OPS from 2009-2012 is .856. Naps is .867 and LaRoche is .805. He also has a career .853 OPS in high leverage situations.

    The gamble is his injury history, but one could bet that his OPS has been lower than his true potential due to the effect of his injuries on his performance over the last few years.

    David Ortiz had an .809 OPS when we got him. I'm not saying Kendrys is the next Papi. He's older now than when we got Papi, but at age 29, he could still improve, especially when playing 80 games in Fenway.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    Morales has a 186/217/256 line at Fenway compared to Napoli's 306/397/710.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    Morales is a combined 20 for 117 at Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Tropicana.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    As we've all learned, some players are good fits to play in Boston and some aren't.  Napoli is a virtual slam-dunk to succeed in Boston.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As we've all learned, some players are good fits to play in Boston and some aren't.  Napoli is a virtual slam-dunk to succeed in Boston.

    [/QUOTE]


    HFX, i share your opinion...but bootlickers wont admit it because ben hasnt/wont do it...if by chance ben does do it later, they will be all for it...tryin to get these guys to take a stand before something happens is futile....i defer to all the Aviles/lillibridge,bailey,melancon, breslow, ross, gomes, posts etc

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    Grienke is a ROY and Cy Young award winner...how many sox pitchers have those credentials?  ben is just too chickenchit to pull the trigger....seems like he has great success so far but ben is a "glass is half empty kind of guy"

    Lots of guys win CY awards.  Peavey, Carpenter, and Colon for example.  Should we go after them simply because they won the CY?  In the 3 years since the CY, Greinke has had a 3.83 ERA, with a 1.215 Whip.  

    1-The 3.83 makes him #50 in BB over the past 3 years.

    2-He is 1-12 on the road against the ALE.

    3-His ERA at the old YS is a solid 8.82, while his ERA at the new YS is 31.50.

    4-His playoff ERA is 6.48.

    Care to comment on items 1-4?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Grienke is a ROY and Cy Young award winner...how many sox pitchers have those credentials?  ben is just too chickenchit to pull the trigger....seems like he has great success so far but ben is a "glass is half empty kind of guy"

    Lots of guys win CY awards.  Peavey, Carpenter, and Colon for example.  Should we go after them simply because they won the CY?  In the 3 years since the CY, Greinke has had a 3.83 ERA, with a 1.215 Whip.  

    1-The 3.83 makes him #50 in BB over the past 3 years.

    2-He is 1-12 on the road against the ALE.

     

    3-His ERA at the old YS is a solid 8.82, while his ERA at the new YS is 31.50.

    4-His playoff ERA is 6.48.

    Care to comment on items 1-4?

    [/QUOTE]

    those are selective stats that indicate nothing/who was he pitching for? what kind of teams did he have?...why not cite the big picture? who is better than him in the sox rotation? you are coming off a 69 win season and you are going to make your decision on what his era was in two away ballparks with the two best hitting teams in the game? sounds like more ben voodoo risk aversion

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    When we signed J. D. Drew for 5 years there was virtually no way he was going to be worth it in that 5th year. It was more like a 4 year deal with a bonus year given to Drew. If we give Napoli the 4th year the same principle would apply, IMO. It's the cost of free agency.

    Fair point.  I understand that you usually have to overpay for free agents.  As I mentioned, I think Napoli is worth 2 years, so the 3rd year would be Napoli's bonus year.  If he insists on the 4th year, I think the Sox should let him walk.

    All that said, I'm not sure there is a better option in terms of production and cost.  I personally would rather overpay in dollars than overpay in prospects in a trade.  We'll see what Ben has up his sleeve.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    those are selective stats that indicate nothing/who was he pitching for? what kind of teams did he have?...why not cite the big picture? who is better than him in the sox rotation? you are coming off a 69 win season and you are going to make your decision on what his era was in two away ballparks with the two best hitting teams in the game? sounds like more ben voodoo risk aversion

    1-It doesn't matter who is better.  Drew will likely be better than Iglesias next year, so should we pay him $22M a year for 7 years?  You have to figure out how much a player is worth.  How much is Greinke worth?

    2-He pitched for KC (33), Mil (49), and LAA (13) over the past three years.  So he spend better than half his time in the NL and is still #50 in ERA.  How much do you want to pay for #50 in ERA?

    3-They are selected stats, but which are relevant, and ample sample size.  When I say he is 1-12 on the road v the ALE, that's his entire career.  I can't make that sample size any larger.  When I say he is #50 in ERA over the past three years, that is generally as far back as anyone goes.

    I don't consider an award he received 4 years ago as relevant.  You are treating this guy as a superstar, and he isn't even an All Star.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When we signed J. D. Drew for 5 years there was virtually no way he was going to be worth it in that 5th year. It was more like a 4 year deal with a bonus year given to Drew. If we give Napoli the 4th year the same principle would apply, IMO. It's the cost of free agency.

    Fair point.  I understand that you usually have to overpay for free agents.  As I mentioned, I think Napoli is worth 2 years, so the 3rd year would be Napoli's bonus year.  If he insists on the 4th year, I think the Sox should let him walk.

    All that said, I'm not sure there is a better option in terms of production and cost.  I personally would rather overpay in dollars than overpay in prospects in a trade.  We'll see what Ben has up his sleeve.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    We'll have Napoli for a full age 31, 32, and 33.  35 is the cut-off I'd use for a bonus year.  He'll decline over the next 3 years, but age 33 is not usually precipitious.  I think 3 years is a slamdunk.  Four years is a bit long for a non-elite player, but the fit is really nice.  I'd be happy if we even got him for a 3+1 deal.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we need an Ace...get that done first, then fill in the rest...foundation first, not last

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree a front line starter is our greatest need and the key to competing in 2013, but are you seriously suggesting Sox should address their needs consecutively rather than concurrently?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Mike Napoli and FOUR Years?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Grienke is a ROY and Cy Young award winner...how many sox pitchers have those credentials?  ben is just too chickenchit to pull the trigger....seems like he has great success so far but ben is a "glass is half empty kind of guy"

    Lots of guys win CY awards.  Peavey, Carpenter, and Colon for example.  Should we go after them simply because they won the CY?  In the 3 years since the CY, Greinke has had a 3.83 ERA, with a 1.215 Whip.  

    1-The 3.83 makes him #50 in BB over the past 3 years.

    2-He is 1-12 on the road against the ALE.

    3-His ERA at the old YS is a solid 8.82, while his ERA at the new YS is 31.50.

    4-His playoff ERA is 6.48.

    Care to comment on items 1-4?

    [/QUOTE]


    Why don't we go after Cy Young instead of Greinke and his ancient Cy Young award?

     

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