Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fir.eballer58. Show fir.eballer58's posts

    Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    Boston Globe:
    Andrew Miller, Erik Bedard and John Lackey will pitch against Texas. Tim Wakefield is being pushed back to the series at Toronto. The Sox met with him today. Francona said that while he wants Wakefield to reach 200 wins, he has to think of the team first and they want Miller in the rotation.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    Yup.  I agree with Francona.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3aa64370d0-7c1f-4b61-b75d-40eb370ec50d
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    As if this was going to be a tough decision. Miller threw great v. Texas, so it would make sense to go right back to him v. Texas. You Wakefield haters really thought he was not going to pull Wakefield after his first real bad start in the last 6 starts? Really? Get a grip. Not only did I say he lost his rotation spot the night of the Oakland game, I said it would make Tito's PR spin the easiest ever. This was an all-time easy decision and one that the Sox big whigs would love to see you Pink Hatters gobble up. Mission accomplished.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    As if Wakefield would be judged on the same guidelines as the other SPs. That ship sailed in 2009 second half. He's been on a start to start basis ever since. One bad one, see you later, unless there were no other available starters due to injury.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
    Boston Globe: Andrew Miller, Erik Bedard and John Lackey will pitch against Texas. Tim Wakefield is being pushed back to the series at Toronto. The Sox met with him today. Francona said that while he wants Wakefield to reach 200 wins, he has to think of the team first and they want Miller in the rotation.
    Posted by fir.eballer58


    Perfectly justified move, what Miller did to Hamilton and a very good Texas lineup should be rewarded.  This is a pennant race, no room for loyalty if it doesn't help out cause.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    Been saying this for the last 2 years, but apparently no one understood that double standard save for moon.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

       This is big boy baseball, wait until something is clinched, then give Tim a shot for his 200 win, a gold watch, and a ticket home.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
    Been saying this for the last 2 years, but apparently no one understood that double standard save for moon.
    Posted by dannycater


    Nah.  There are just some of us who don't see it as some absolute double standard.  The dude wasn't in the rotation to start the last three years, hasn't had a chance of making a post-season roster in recent years.  Didn't make the 09 post-season roster, wouldn't have made it last year, won't make it this year.  And all that is exactly how it should be.  But, the fact is, he has been needed these past couple years with all the pitching injuries.  And at 2 mil, a cheap and decent solution.  Hardly a double standard.  The fact that his manager wants to give him opportunity to win his 200th game?  If he didn't, that is a terrible manager.  The fact that he is pulling him in this crunch time is also exactly how it should be.  What you are calling a double standard, I call respect for a guy who has carried the water for this club for years.  Does he deserve a starting role when there are better options?  No, and when there have been better options, he hasn't started.  There is no double standard.  Just respect.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    That's respect? LOL, really? It's respect to pull him from the rotation or move him back a few days to avoid certain teams? That's not respect, that's showing a lack of confidence in him. I call it the opposite of respect. They used him and abused him, and really they haven't shown respect toward him as much as they needed him. Now they feel they don't need him. Fine. But that's not respect. 
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    Miller threw a great start v. Texas after really not throwing all that well in previous starts, he was bounced to the pen for a long while. So am I to believe that if Miller had allowed 5 runs in 5 innings in Texas, that Wakefield would not be taking his regular start? You really think Miller would be facing Texas or anyone for that matter if he threw a bad start in his last start? That's a double standard. One guy throws and throws and throws and gets little offensive support, and then is being blamed for everything from the record is a distraction to he's too old, to he can't control his pitches (even though his WHIP was better than 3 other starters during the stretch AFTER 199). Wakefield had a bad start last start. I've been saying for 2 years, he is always on a start-to-start basis. It's Wakefield who is the one showing respect for the organization and for playing for the Red Sox. He shows the respect, many fans show it back by throwing him under a bus, and the manager shows his respect by pulling him from the rotation based on the most recent start. So if Miller gets bombed v. Texas, what happens then? Do we continue the lovefest here for Wake getting yanked from the rotation, or does the team put himi back in the rotation. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

     This is big boy baseball, wait until something is clinched, then give Tim a shot for his 200 win, a gold watch, and a ticket home.

    Dan, you aren't PC and you are becoming one of my favorite posters.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    It's just baseball, danny.  Pitchers get passed over in certain spots all the time.  Beckett got moved back at the start of the year.  Wheeler has been fighting to get back a prime spot in the pen all year. 

     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
    That's respect? LOL, really? It's respect to pull him from the rotation or move him back a few days to avoid certain teams? That's not respect, that's showing a lack of confidence in him. I call it the opposite of respect. They used him and abused him, and really they haven't shown respect toward him as much as they needed him. Now they feel they don't need him. Fine. But that's not respect. 
    Posted by dannycater


    OK.  yes, I agree.  But, if I did not make it well, that was my point.  The respect part was giving him the ball to try and get his 200th.  But, all things considered, he has been used at the club's callous discretion.  My point was that I don't see the 'double standard' you mention as it exists to Wake.  He has been held to the same standard any pitcher trying to win a spot on the mighty Boston red Sox should be held.  The respect part was just Tito wanting to give him the opportunity to get his milestone.  As it should be.  I agree he has been used and abused.  I was just taking issue with some vague notion of a double standard toward Wakefield.  He has been treated as someone with inconsistent results should be treated really.  


     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
    That's respect? LOL, really? It's respect to pull him from the rotation or move him back a few days to avoid certain teams? That's not respect, that's showing a lack of confidence in him. I call it the opposite of respect. They used him and abused him, and really they haven't shown respect toward him as much as they needed him. Now they feel they don't need him. Fine. But that's not respect. 
    Posted by dannycater


    DC, the Sox have been nothing but loyal to Wake as he has for us over the years.  It's not really a lack of respect to move a struggling pitcher out of the rotation, especailly during a pennant race.  Wake understands this I'm sure along with why he has been our # 6 and kept out of most PS matchups where he has struggled in the past.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
     This is big boy baseball, wait until something is clinched, then give Tim a shot for his 200 win, a gold watch, and a ticket home. Dan, you aren't PC and you are becoming one of my favorite posters.
    Posted by S0ftl@w


       Why do I feel that I'm being set up?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    But see that's my point. You are calling him a "struggling pitcher." I think he threw poorly last start, and could have been better the start before. However, I thought he threw well in the 4 previous starts, including the 5 run in 8 IP start. Many saw him as "not winning" and I saw it as he's throwing better than the other SPs over the same stretch of games. I also am about performance. He did not perform well in his most recent 2 starts, and the team is in a pennant race. I simply stated that he would be pulled from the rotation and that Tito had all the justification PR wise to do so at this point. I didn't say he deserved or didn't deserve. As for double standard, Miller threw one good start and is given his next start. What did he do really in the most previous starts, not that well? Did John Lackey throw lights out more than twice in his last 10 starts? What if he got no support? His WHIP is worse than Tim's. He gave up less overall runs despite really not throwing all that great--Lackey. If he had not been a "winning pitcher" in those games, would anyone here be questioning his spot in the rotation? I don't think he's proven anything really other than that he battles and that he is an end of the rotation starter-Lackey. I'm happy for him, and for the Sox, but had he not gotten offensive support, and Wakefield got his support in the same stretch plus the 2 relief chokes for Wake after he left with a lead, would you be clamoring for him to leave the rotation?? softy, this is meant for spaceman.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    And I like Miller a lot. And I know Tito likes him a lot. And there is good reason. He has massive potential. But at the same time, there is a double standard and maybe it's Lackey and Wakefield that the double standard is applied to. One does not ever have to worry about leaving the rotation at any point, win or lose, it just so happens that the Sox score a ton every start for Lackey. If the things were reversed, and Wakefield got the relievers to save it for him (Lackey did twice as well got relievers to bail him out while Tim got burned twice), the record would have already happened, and then it's about Wakefield v Lackey for a rotation spot. But things have worked against Tim, and then he had the Oakland start, so it is what it is. 
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    Softlaw never sets anyone up, Dan.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    I like third person softlaw. it's got a rapper's feel to it.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    I got nothing but love for Wakefield....but Miller over Wakefield is the rational decision. 
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
       This is big boy baseball, wait until something is clinched, then give Tim a shot for his 200 win, a gold watch, and a ticket home.
    Posted by attic-dan


    you hit the nail on the head, until the sox clinch, or cant catch the yanks, dont let wake start another game, i congratulate wake for all his accomplishments in a sox uniform but he is all washed up, release him at the end of the season.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
    But see that's my point. You are calling him a "struggling pitcher." I think he threw poorly last start, and could have been better the start before. However, I thought he threw well in the 4 previous starts, including the 5 run in 8 IP start. Many saw him as "not winning" and I saw it as he's throwing better than the other SPs over the same stretch of games. I also am about performance. He did not perform well in his most recent 2 starts, and the team is in a pennant race. I simply stated that he would be pulled from the rotation and that Tito had all the justification PR wise to do so at this point. I didn't say he deserved or didn't deserve. As for double standard, Miller threw one good start and is given his next start. What did he do really in the most previous starts, not that well? Did John Lackey throw lights out more than twice in his last 10 starts? What if he got no support? His WHIP is worse than Tim's. He gave up less overall runs despite really not throwing all that great--Lackey. If he had not been a "winning pitcher" in those games, would anyone here be questioning his spot in the rotation? I don't think he's proven anything really other than that he battles and that he is an end of the rotation starter-Lackey. I'm happy for him, and for the Sox, but had he not gotten offensive support, and Wakefield got his support in the same stretch plus the 2 relief chokes for Wake after he left with a lead, would you be clamoring for him to leave the rotation?? softy, this is meant for spaceman.
    Posted by dannycater

    Miller pitched well in his previous start, too (1 ER, 3 H in 5.1 in KC).  You've got one guy who has given up 1 run and 6 hits in his last two starts, and another guy who has given up 12 runs and 17 hits.  There's one spot open.  That's just math - there's nothing dis-respectful about math.





     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    In Response to Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?:
    But see that's my point. You are calling him a "struggling pitcher." I think he threw poorly last start, and could have been better the start before. However, I thought he threw well in the 4 previous starts, including the 5 run in 8 IP start. Many saw him as "not winning" and I saw it as he's throwing better than the other SPs over the same stretch of games. I also am about performance. He did not perform well in his most recent 2 starts, and the team is in a pennant race. I simply stated that he would be pulled from the rotation and that Tito had all the justification PR wise to do so at this point. I didn't say he deserved or didn't deserve. As for double standard, Miller threw one good start and is given his next start. What did he do really in the most previous starts, not that well? Did John Lackey throw lights out more than twice in his last 10 starts? What if he got no support? His WHIP is worse than Tim's. He gave up less overall runs despite really not throwing all that great--Lackey. If he had not been a "winning pitcher" in those games, would anyone here be questioning his spot in the rotation? I don't think he's proven anything really other than that he battles and that he is an end of the rotation starter-Lackey. I'm happy for him, and for the Sox, but had he not gotten offensive support, and Wakefield got his support in the same stretch plus the 2 relief chokes for Wake after he left with a lead, would you be clamoring for him to leave the rotation?? softy, this is meant for spaceman.
    Posted by dannycater


    I understand your point DC.  Personally, I like Wake a lot better than Lackey, Maybe the rest will do Wake some good and when he does get another chance he will take advantage.  I think the rest was needed.
     
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    Re: Miller over Wakefield in Texas series-Francona said he has to think of the team first-Do you agree with Francona?

    How can he let a hitter like that take him deep???

     
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