Miller....Really Tito???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Andrew Miller had a high WHIP even before he pitched in this game. You can't just look at wins and losses. He's been the beneficiary of weak competition and high run support. His peripherals have been poor throughout. Last night was the first time he went up against a good offense and it showed.

    While John Lackey has endured some struggles this year, at least he's proven to be an above-average major league starting pitcher for most of his career. The same cannot be said of Andrew Miller, who consistently failed at every level. Even this season, Lackey has a lower WHIP (1.54) and better K/BB ratio (52/28) than Miller (1.82) and (13/16), respectively. Popular whipping boy Tim Wakefield has them both beat at (1.27) and (40/25). In fact, Wakefield's WHIP is within .06 of the vaunted Jon Lester's (1.21) and is .02 better than Clay Buchholz's (1.29).

    The two best starting pitchers on the Red Sox this year have been Josh Beckett and Jon Lester. It's a toss-up for third best between Buchholz and Wakefield. They have virtually the same WHIP. Buchholz has a moderately better K/BB ratio and a significantly lower ERA, but Wakefield has been more durable this year. I'd give the edge to Buchholz, however Wakefield isn't far off.

    Once Buchholz and Lester return to the rotation, Miller and Weiland are the obvious choices to be demoted. Don't be fooled by the win-loss numbers. There's a huge drop-off between Wakefield and Miller. History also indicates that Lackey is a better bet than Miller to produce reasonable to good numbers.

    Keep in mind that in a playoff scenario, the Red Sox only need four starting pitchers, with the fourth man starting once in each series, if at all. If Beckett, Lester and Buchholz are healthy in October, that's a sufficiently strong front three. If the Red Sox combine Wakefield, Lackey and Aceves for No. 4 duties, they should be able to get by just fine. In such a scenario, I'd probably start Lackey, replace him as soon as he gets into trouble, go with Wakefield once through the batting order, then replace him with Aceves.

    The Red Sox only need to add starting pitching if the injuries to Lester and Buchholz are more serious than advertised. If everyone will be okay, then focus on adding one more quality reliever for the late innings, ideally a lefty power arm, and possibly a righthanded hitting upgrade on Darnell McDonald, if the cost isn't too steep. As much as I like Josh Reddick, I doubt he'll sustain his current pace. Francona should be riding him hard, though, while it lasts. He's underutilizing him.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]walktorun, exactly what I posted on the Salty fault thread. Wakefield's career numbers are great in Tampa, and he has proven often that he is the right guy to throw against the other team's prohibitive ace.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I love the hindsight crowd after the fact...hes 0-2 vs rays this year...16-5 L and 4-0 L..didnt look good in either..Either one of lackey, Wake or miller is prone to give up a ton of runs on any given day, so IMO it didnt matter who started...bad game..move on..
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    "History also indicates that Lackey is a better bet than Miller to produce reasonable to good numbers." davidap

    Uh yeah because Miller has had very near the same amount of time in the big league's as lackluster. 

    Let us see, Miller has 59 career starts and Lackey has 280 games started - 

    Before you bore us with paragraph length dribble try and have a better perspective.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    southpaw, not the hindsight crowd. By far, not. Don't make jerk comments about people you don't know..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Andrew Miller had a high WHIP even before he pitched in this game. You can't just look at wins and losses. He's been the beneficiary of weak competition and high run support. His peripherals have been poor throughout. Last night was the first time he went up against a good offense and it showed.

    While John Lackey has endured some struggles this year, at least he's proven to be an above-average major league starting pitcher for most of his career. The same cannot be said of Andrew Miller, who consistently failed at every level. Even this season, Lackey has a lower WHIP (1.54) and better K/BB ratio (52/28) than Miller (1.82) and (13/16), respectively. Popular whipping boy Tim Wakefield has them both beat at (1.27) and (40/25). In fact, Wakefield's WHIP is within .06 of the vaunted Jon Lester's (1.21) and is .02 better than Clay Buchholz's (1.29).

    The two best starting pitchers on the Red Sox this year have been Josh Beckett and Jon Lester. It's a toss-up for third best between Buchholz and Wakefield. They have virtually the same WHIP. Buchholz has a moderately better K/BB ratio and a significantly lower ERA, but Wakefield has been more durable this year. I'd give the edge to Buchholz, however Wakefield isn't far off.

    Once Buchholz and Lester return to the rotation, Miller and Weiland are the obvious choices to be demoted. Don't be fooled by the win-loss numbers. There's a huge drop-off between Wakefield and Miller. History also indicates that Lackey is a better bet than Miller to produce reasonable to good numbers.

    Keep in mind that in a playoff scenario, the Red Sox only need four starting pitchers, with the fourth man starting once in each series, if at all. If Beckett, Lester and Buchholz are healthy in October, that's a sufficiently strong front three. If the Red Sox combine Wakefield, Lackey and Aceves for No. 4 duties, they should be able to get by just fine. In such a scenario, I'd probably start Lackey, replace him as soon as he gets into trouble, go with Wakefield once through the batting order, then replace him with Aceves.

    The Red Sox only need to add starting pitching if the injuries to Lester and Buchholz are more serious than advertised. If everyone will be okay, then focus on adding one more quality reliever for the late innings, ideally a lefty power arm, and possibly a righthanded hitting upgrade on Darnell McDonald, if the cost isn't too steep. As much as I like Josh Reddick, I doubt he'll sustain his current pace. Francona should be riding him hard, though, while it lasts. He's underutilizing him.

    Well stated davidap.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito??? : I love the hindsight crowd after the fact...hes 0-2 vs rays this year...16-5 L and 4-0 L..didnt look good in either..Either one of lackey, Wake or miller is prone to give up a ton of runs on any given day, so IMO it didnt matter who started...bad game..move on..
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    I may be wrong, but I think Wake is 0-1 with a 4.35 ERA vs TB this year.
    Lackey and Miller had not faced TB before last night in 2011.

    While Wake has not done great vs TB in recent years, he does have a fine record at TB for his career:
     
    10-5  3.29  (1.216 WHIP)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Talk about poor memories.  Forget the stats.  We were all told early this season that Miller, a high draft pick (for someone else) out of UNC several years ago, had never fulfilled his promise because of control issues.  He was a project, but at Pawtucket he seemed to be turning things around, and on June 15 the Sox, after Miller had started several games and shown good control and good results, had to choose between letting him go to another club or bringing him up, so they did the latter.  And he was decent, with decent control.

    Last night was undoubtedly a regression.  But it's a little early to decide whether that was the real Miller or merely a bump in the road. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    agreed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    I don't belive it would make a big difference if Miller, Wakefield or Lackey started last night.  Until Lester and Bucholz return, they are the only other options that the Red Sox have.  We just have to hope that Lackey has a better 2nd half and Lester and Bucholz are healthy soon.  Without a pitching rotation of Beckett, Lester and Bucholz,  as the top 3 pitchers it will be difficult for the Red Sox to have a good 2nd half.  Although, a better Lackey would definitely help. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Actually, the Orioles and Rays are closer than they seem.  The Rays have a much better pitching staff, but the hitting is about the same, and so are the team records in home games.  As the man says, right now the Sox starters are hurting, so Miller, who before last night had been decent this time in the Majors, was a logical choice. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    max, i actually think both Wakefield and Lackey were better options. They are proven veteran starters, something you at least opt better for 1st game after a break. Wakefield doesn't pitch till Monday, it's stupid to let him sit for almost 10 days. Typical of Tito to not understand why some pitchers thrive and others don't based on breaks between outings.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    To those of you who have trouble reading and/or interpreting my post, I merley suggested that Wake should have been given the ball to kick off the 2nd half of the season. His knuckleball would have screwed them up for the rest of the series.

    And those of you criticize those of us who choose to comment after the fact...duh...blogging would be no fun if we knew everything ahead of time.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jm48. Show jm48's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]Really? First bad start. Did you throw your kid into the road when he fell over the first time he fell over trying to walk ....
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Sometimes control issues are systemic and all the starts in the world won't fix it.

    If you going to continue to pitch this guy you have to micromanage him.  There is no way he should of been allowed out for the 3rd inning or give up 2 more runs and finally get yanked with the bases loaded.  That was bad managing. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]To those of you who have trouble reading and/or interpreting my post, I merley suggested that Wake should have been given the ball to kick off the 2nd half of the season. His knuckleball would have screwed them up for the rest of the series. Posted by walk2run[/QUOTE]

    Sounds great in theory, but...last year Wake started the first game after the break against Texas.  They scored 6 runs in the first inning, won 7-2, and took 3 out of 4 in the series.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito??? : Sounds great in theory, but...last year Wake started the first game after the break against Texas.  They scored 6 runs in the first inning, won 7-2, and took 3 out of 4 in the series.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    I guess in your world Wake would do this in that type of situation again. Hmmm I could of sworn the Sox played the Rays last nite...my bad.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito??? : I guess in your world Wake would do this in that type of situation again. Hmmm I could of sworn the Sox played the Rays last nite...my bad.
    Posted by walk2run[/QUOTE]

    Look, I'm not a Wake basher at all.  I think over his career he's been a very serviceable starter at a reasonable cost.  But let's not make him into something he's not.  He had a 5.34 ERA last year, 4.74 this year.  It's 5.24 over his last 7 starts.  He's not exactly a reliable shutdown guy. 
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Yes, one of Miller, Weiland or Douby should have been starting instead of Wake all along. You are brilliant!
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    Where does Wake stand in starter ERA - in this current rotation?
    And you want him pitching for the Rays...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    ERA is softy's stat of choice. Sample sizes do not matter until Miller's ERA rose above Wake's.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

    In Response to Re: Miller....Really Tito???:
    [QUOTE]southpaw, not the hindsight crowd. By far, not. Don't make jerk comments about people you don't know..
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I dont know anyone here really, just screen names..It wasnt a jerk comment..It was a realistic one..
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Miller....Really Tito???

     About 10 days ago I posted that watching Miller pitch was almost as excruciating as watching Dice-k. I got ripped for that comment but after watching his most recent 5 walk, 2 & 2/3 inning stint I'm probably gonna have to revise my thinking. Dice-k usually had 5 inning/100 pitch outings and one year went 18-3. Perhaps the sample size with the Sox is small, but control issues have plagued this guy during his entire major league career.
     

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