Miller's Latest Outing

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Miller's Latest Outing

     3.2 innings, 9 hits, 7runs (5 earned), 2 BBs, and 2 HRs (bombs) late in his stint. Not to belabor the obvious but this experiment hasn't worked well recently. Often he was behind in the count but what troubled me most last night was: when he did throw strikes he threw them right in the middle of the plate and they were mashed. My sense is that Theo really has to make a move for a new 5th starter before the trading deadline comes and goes.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    It's Bud time...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hotironskillet. Show hotironskillet's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    Miller is pitching scared. Each outing seems worse than the last one and I think he's trying so hard not to make mistakes that he's making things worse. He needs to calm down and remember that it is OK to pitch to contact if you defense can help you get outs and his defense can.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    My take is that the RS are not going to be "saved" by a deadline trade for a starter. The season but even more so the post season largely depends on Buch being able to return and Lackey's recent performances being sustainable.

    I just don't think the answer is in the deadline market.

    But I concur that the recent outings do suggest that Andrew Miller still has plenty of issues with control. Even in his early successful appearances the walks did not seem eliminated just mitigated.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    I agree, katz. Sox management is not going to invest even more in the starting rotation than they already have. Dice-K is being paid not to pitch. They will keep their hopes on Buch returning and Lackey shaping into a capable 4th starter (and maybe 3rd if Buch does not return to form this year).

    The 5th starter (4th and 5th if Buch does not come back) will come from:

    Wake, Miller, Aceves, Weiland or someone else from within.

    Our 5th and 6th starters are really no worse than most other teams; in fact, they are better than most. We are 25-17 in starts by thesse guys combined:
    Lackey (8-8), Wake (9-4), Miller (6-1), Aceves (1-3), Weiland (1-1) 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    His command has always sucked but I want to know what happened to his stuff.  If his fastball was sitting around 92 and he was locating it well that would be one thingRight now his velocity is down and he still has no idea where it's going.  Bad combination. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
    I agree, katz. Sox management is not going to invest even more in the starting rotation than they already have. Dice-K is being paid not to pitch. They will keep their hopes on Buch returning and Lackey shaping into a capable 4th starter (and maybe 3rd if Buch does not return to form this year). The 5th starter (4th and 5th if Buch does not come back) will come from: Wake, Miller, Aceves, Weiland or someone else from within. Our 5th and 6th starters are really no worse than most other teams; in fact, they are better than most. We are 25-17 in starts by thesse guys combined: Lackey (8-8), Wake (9-4), Miller (6-1), Aceves (1-3), Weiland (1-1) 
    Posted by moonslav59


    Good points on the back of the rotation. But to get us into and through the PS we need a solid 1 thru 4 and right now Beckett and Lester are it. If Buch does come back, the long lay-off may affect his ability to return to form, and Lackey is hit or miss.
    Another dependable #3 is a must IMO.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    What worries me most is that in 34.3 IP, Miller has allowed 41 Hits and 24 BBs (1.875 WHIP). Last year in 32.2 IP he allowed 51 Hits and 26 BBs. It is amazing the Sox are 6-1 in his starts this year.

    I hope he gets it together, but pitching for this team involves a lot of pressue.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
    What worries me most is that in 34.3 IP, Miller has allowed 41 Hits and 24 BBs (1.875 WHIP). Last year in 32.2 IP he allowed 51 Hits and 26 BBs. It is amazing the Sox are 6-1 in his starts this year. I hope he gets it together, but pitching for this team involves a lot of pressue.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Moon. Do you think Bedard is a realistic option? I know he's had DL issues in the past but an ERA of 3.00 in 15 starts is not too shabby.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wherescreamingcomesfrom. Show wherescreamingcomesfrom's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
    Miller is pitching scared. Each outing seems worse than the last one and I think he's trying so hard not to make mistakes that he's making things worse. He needs to calm down and remember that it is OK to pitch to contact if you defense can help you get outs and his defense can.
    Posted by hotironskillet


    Maybe he is pitching scared, but I was surprised by his postgame interview in which he looked composed, calm, and utterly un-shaken by his string of bad starts. he has a lot to work on, but I was impressed with his mental approach. He didn't have that deer-in-the-headlights look  that so many pitchers (Matt Clement) wind up with. His interview gave me hope that he can rebound - once the head is messed up it takes a lot longer to make it back.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

       In their last 5 starts Wake has gone 29.1 IP and given up 23 earned runs. Miller 23 IP and 17 earned runs. Both lines are pathetic, but for some reason Wake gets a pass from many on this site. Posters recite that as long as the Sox win when Wake pitches that is all that matters, well the Sox are 6-1 in Millers' starts so what is everybody complaining about. IMO they both should go. The Miller experiment has not worked,and Wake is someone whose time has come and long gone.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    dice k was better than miller when in need of tommy john surgery,
     kuroda or harden could REALLY help! Wakefields successes are a bonus
    at this point, his failures expected and the payoffs are too hot
    for either man, in my opinion...

    GO RED SOX !
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wherescreamingcomesfrom. Show wherescreamingcomesfrom's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
       In their last 5 starts Wake has gone 29.1 IP and given up 23 earned runs. Miller 23 IP and 17 earned runs. Both lines are pathetic, but for some reason Wake gets a pass from many on this site. Posters recite that as long as the Sox win when Wake pitches that is all that matters, well the Sox are 6-1 in Millers' starts so what is everybody complaining about. IMO they both should go. The Miller experiment has not worked,and Wake is someone whose time has come and long gone.
    Posted by attic-dan


    Wake isn't getting a pass. If you are complaining only about his last five starts you are ignoring a longer track record (one that Miller doesn't have). We have seen how Wakefield goes through stretches in which he pitches REALLY well, and stretches where he pitches poorly. Welcome to the unpredictable world of the knuckleballer. But in the end, his numbers are pretty good for his role. This has been extensively elaborated by other poster - I don't feel like I need to get into a numbers argument.

    Miller, on the other hand, is a more difficult case because he doesn't have the extensive track record of Wakefield. We have much less to go on. However, I don't think the team is keeping him around based solely on what he has done since getting here. I think they see the potential for him to emerge as a good pitcher. His continued presence is an investement in that possible outcome. You can agree with that strategy or not, but it is wrong to assume that they are going to start him next Sunday only because of what the think he will do that day.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    moonslav - It's not amazing that they are 6-1 in his starts. They are averaging almost 9 runs a game when he pitches.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
       In their last 5 starts Wake has gone 29.1 IP and given up 23 earned runs. Miller 23 IP and 17 earned runs. Both lines are pathetic, but for some reason Wake gets a pass from many on this site. Posters recite that as long as the Sox win when Wake pitches that is all that matters, well the Sox are 6-1 in Millers' starts so what is everybody complaining about. IMO they both should go. The Miller experiment has not worked,and Wake is someone whose time has come and long gone.
    Posted by attic-dan


    Sox 17-4 in July
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    Miller should have about 5 more starts before the roster expands.  If he is still struggling, the Sox can keep him on the roster but start Wake, Weiland or Aceves in his place, monitor him in the off-season, and see how he does next year in Spring Training before making a decision.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    Keep starting him.  He and he alone seems to be able to consistently galvanize the Sox hitting.   Beckett on the other hand puts them to sleep.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing : Wake isn't getting a pass. If you are complaining only about his last five starts you are ignoring a longer track record (one that Miller doesn't have). We have seen how Wakefield goes through stretches in which he pitches REALLY well, and stretches where he pitches poorly. Welcome to the unpredictable world of the knuckleballer. But in the end, his numbers are pretty good for his role. This has been extensively elaborated by other poster - I don't feel like I need to get into a numbers argument. Miller, on the other hand, is a more difficult case because he doesn't have the extensive track record of Wakefield. We have much less to go on. However, I don't think the team is keeping him around based solely on what he has done since getting here. I think they see the potential for him to emerge as a good pitcher. His continued presence is an investement in that possible outcome. You can agree with that strategy or not, but it is wrong to assume that they are going to start him next Sunday only because of what the think he will do that day.
    Posted by wherescreamingcomesfrom


       And following those streaks when Wake pitches really well, he pitches really really bad hence his 5+ era, IMO opinion we've seen his good streak so it's time to remove him before he can do more damage. I can use the history arguement against Wake just as easily as you can for him. I'm assuming the Sox know more about Miller than I do, so given the Sox situation, the playoffs being a certainty, and the fact that he is a lefty, Miller should be given every oppurtunity to thrive, especially if Wakefield is the alternative.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    I also think we've ridden that horse long enough ... time to try something different.  Looks like Buck is still hurting, he's now going to a specialist.  It makes getting a solid pitcher a priority IMO.  Hope Theo sees it that way.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
    Miller is pitching scared. Each outing seems worse than the last one and I think he's trying so hard not to make mistakes that he's making things worse. He needs to calm down and remember that it is OK to pitch to contact if you defense can help you get outs and his defense can.
    Posted by hotironskillet


    Deep down, that's true of many pitchers who are fighting for their M.L. lives.
    But in Miller's case, he's simply exposed. This is what I saw early on with him, and is why I didn't bite on "Miller Time".

    The reason his recent form in AAA was good was because he sac. velocity for control, and it was enough for that kind of competition. But I doubt it would have lasted even there. He has always had control issues, but more importantly is his poor consistency of command, and at 92-3MPH, with a straight FB, the lanky deception in his delivery wears thin.

    His height is detrimental to repetitive delivery. He falls off the mound poorly and has one of the worst pick-off moves I've ever seen. Bottom line: he's destined for BP duty unless he develops a devastating out pitch, like Johnson's slider, or Lester's cutter.

    Just my take.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
    moonslav - It's not amazing that they are 6-1 in his starts. They are averaging almost 9 runs a game when he pitches.
    Posted by ADG

    It's amazing to me that they almost always score big for him.

    One could also say that it is amazing that the team is 9-4 in Wake starts, but the pen blew one of his games, and he has had comparatively poor run support in recent years.

    I do think Wake could use a 3-4 start rest right now, but I don't see any better options on this team right now, excpet for Aceves. However, Aceves is needed for the long role and if he does come to the rotation, I'd replace Miller not Wake (or even Lackey).
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    Where's Douby and Taz when ya need them?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    i think its safe to say the miller experiment is over. He has reverted to the same guy he was last year with the marlins and tigers. He just cant seem to put it together and does not trust his stuff.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Miller's Latest Outing

    In Response to Re: Miller's Latest Outing:
       In their last 5 starts Wake has gone 29.1 IP and given up 23 earned runs. Miller 23 IP and 17 earned runs. Both lines are pathetic, but for some reason Wake gets a pass from many on this site. Posters recite that as long as the Sox win when Wake pitches that is all that matters, well the Sox are 6-1 in Millers' starts so what is everybody complaining about. IMO they both should go. The Miller experiment has not worked,and Wake is someone whose time has come and long gone.
    Posted by attic-dan

    Look beyond just numbers (or traditionally expected numbers)...

    Wake's 13 starts:
                      IP  H  ER BB (comments)
    1) vs Sea  5.2  3  1  1  
    (left with 2 outs and man on 1st: Jenks allowed his runner to score plus 1 more and Wake gets no decision: Sox win anyways)

    2) vs Min  4.1  9  6  4 (started 5 days earlier/pitched relief 2 days before)
    (scored 2 runs on BB, IF hit, GB single and Balk)

    3) vs Cubs  6  7  4  1
     (shut out through 6.2, then two dbls = 1 run)

    4) @ Det   7   5  2  2
     (1 run scores on seeing eye GB single, SB and another seeing eye GB single.)

    5) vs CWS  6  7  4  1
     (shut out through 4.2, then BB, bloop single, SB, Groundout to SS, Gb double down 3B line that could have been fielded by Youk)

    6) @ NYY   5.1  5  5  3
     (Shutout through 4 IP, then 3 runs on BB, PB, 1B, 2B, GB -man to 3rd-Sac Fly, then in 6th 2 outs and BB, and Aceves comes in and allows his run to score.)

    7) @ TB     7   4  1  5
     (Shut out for 4.1 IP then HR, in 6th BB, PB, BB, GB runners advance and Passed Ball allows run to score.)

    8) vs Mil   8   3 2  1
     (2-runo HR in 2nd + solo HR in 7th: no bad luck)

    9) @ Pitt   6   7  5  4
     (shut out for 4.1 IP, and 1B, SB, BB, HR, 2B, GB single for 3 runs, 4th run scores on cheap single to 3B -Youk muffs it, and a 2B to CF that Ellsbury misjudged-could have been caught, then a GB to 2B.)

    10) @ Hou  5.1  11  5  0
     (1st inning: 1B, SB, GB runner to 3B, Sac Fly, 2 runs score in 2nd on 2B, 1B, bunt 1B to 3B, and 2B, in the 5th: GB single, WP, 2B)
     
    11) vs Tor    7    9  3  1
     (3rd inning: swinging bunt single, 1B, GB runners advance, Sac Fly, long 1B)

    12) @ Bal    4.2  9  3  2
     (1st: 2 outs then weak 1B to 3B, hard 1B, then 3B for 2 runs. 5th: 2 Ks, HR, HR, 1B, bloop 1B-could have been caught, BB, 2B clears bases)

    13) vs Sea  6.1  10  7  1
     (1st: HBP & HR, 5th: K, BB, seeing eye GB 1B, 2B scores 1, Wake enters the 7th ahead 11-3. He could have been relieved, but he stays in and allows: 4 runs on 3 singles and HR)

    I'm not trying to be a Wake apologist. I know he has let up a lot of runs this year. I know every pitcher has some cheap runs scored off them. I just know that Wake has pitched better than his numbers indicate. How much better? Look and judge objectively for yourself.

    Some interesting observations on Wake this year:
    In Opponents...
    1st PA: .778 OPS
    2nd PA: .677 OPS
    3rd PA: .942 OPS
    4th+ PA:  1.121 OPS

    Pitch 1-25:   .735
    Pitch 26-50: .727
    Pitch 51-75: .805
    Pitch 76-100: 1.143

    It appears Wake should probably be taken out a bit earlier than he has been thus far. Tito seems to keep him in longer than others, perhaps to "save the pen". Wake has the 3rd highest IP/GS on the Sox.


     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share