Miscall by Bobby V

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Miscall by Bobby V

    I rarely criticize any manager because I figure they know more, which they do.  And I think Bobby V has done an excellent job with the bullpen this season.

    That said, I think he had every reason not to send Mortensen out in the 9th or at least to take him out after that walk.

    Anyone agree?     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Miscall by Bobby V : Bringing Aceves in with 1st and 3rd and no outs, made no sense either. If he's going to use Aceves he should have just started the inniing. I think Bobby V wants to get canned. How else to explain the following: 1. Giving Middlebrooks yesterday off, but pinch hitting him late in the game. If he has a day off, it's a day off. If he's going to play him, why not start him. 2. Why Punto ever plays is beyond me. How does he ever play over Ciriaco? 3. Putting Melancon in any game.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    I think he's trying to send a message to Ben.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]i have never met anyone who was a sox fan outside of this chatroom that truly believed francona was a good manager....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    Let's be fair here. What about those baseball writers that made him manager of the year 4 times??  Wait, maybe it was that he was never voted higher than 4th in MOY voting. Yeah, that's it. My bad.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : I will agree with you that Bobby V is not in the same class as Tito. Few managers are, and those who are have not job, just like Tito. He was one of the most mediocre managers I have seen in 50 years of watching baseball. Great at protecting his players while they turned the clubhouse into a circus; terrible tactician. I am very glad that he is gone, even though I am not sure about Valentine any more.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]
    My feelings exactly, and I've been a Sox fan for over 60 years. Personally I think mediocre is generous.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : totally agree; and i,too, am very glad he is gone.
    Posted by mryazz[/QUOTE]

    I am also very glad he's gone.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : And you hated Theo too, right?  See, I'll never understand people like you.  You may not realize it yet, but those years of 2003 to 2007 were as good as it gets.  If you couldn't appreciate that, I don't see how you get any enjoyment out of following the Red Sox at all.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Francona wasn't here in 2003, neither was theo if I'm not mistaken. We had a championship team already built, 2004 was a given that we were going to make the PS again.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : I am also very glad he's gone.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Yup, the Sox are doing awesome without him!

    When in your 60 years of watching the Sox have they done better than the last 8?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : Are you seriously saying that Francona was a better manager than Valentine? Francona was the worst manager the Red Sox ever had!
    Posted by bosoxmal[/QUOTE]
    The sad thing is that you're right. No team should consistently have to win "In Spite of Their Manager". The Sox of 2004 through 2011 under achieved, yet fans were willing to look past Francona's ineptitude because "HE" won a WS for us in 2004. The truth is that he inherited a championship team and almost blew it against the Yankees. Any one of us could have managed the 2004 team to a WS win. In the following 7 years as manager the Sox only got to one more WS. Loaded with talent and only one Ws and they failed to make the playoffs for the last two years and the last playoff game they won was in 2008 !
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : actually, calling 'cona a manager at all is ridiculous.
    Posted by mryazz[/QUOTE]

    You my friend get it!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : Yup, the Sox are doing awesome without him! When in your 60 years of watching the Sox have they done better than the last 8?
    Posted by ThefourBs[/QUOTE]
    Another satisfied fan, good for you. I expected, and we fans deserved better than we got, based on the talent he had to work with. He gets absolutely no credit from me for 2004. By hisw own admission he walked into a WS championship waiting to happen. For rht remaining 7 years they under achieved. the last playoff wins was in 2008, or was it 2009? 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]I rarely criticize any manager because I figure they know more, which they do.  And I think Bobby V has done an excellent job with the bullpen this season. That said, I think he had every reason not to send Mortensen out in the 9th or at least to take him out after that walk. Anyone agree?     
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    see my Tito/BV pitching thread
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : Another satisfied fan, good for you. I expected, and we fans deserved better than we got, based on the talent he had to work with. He gets absolutely no credit from me for 2004. By hisw own admission he walked into a WS championship waiting to happen. For rht remaining 7 years they under achieved. the last playoff wins was in 2008, or was it 2009? 
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Right, he goets no credit for '04 or '07, but the ye underachieved the rest of the time under his leadership.

    A ridiculous line of thinking...

    Was the question I asked too difficult?

    But, hey! You got what you wanted! A manager that doesn't know if the opposing pitcher is a righty or lefty.

    Enjoy!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Miscall by Bobby V : Probably a bad call. But I think the pen's been overworked in general because of the starting pitching, which is why some guys are faltering now. It's interesting reading this thread though- Beckett gives up 8 earned runs, and it's BV's fault that we lost. We are now 15-27 in games started by Lester and Beckett. 
    Posted by august271985[/QUOTE]
    Leaving Beckett in after Murphy's single was not a good call.
    Mortenson has pitched more than three innings more than once. He did not look tired. Neither McClure nor BV nor, probably, the catcher thought he was tired. BV was trying to get by without using Aceves -- yet. Aceves is becoming a gopher-ball specialist. Missed one by a hair in the ninth. The pen is being ground down by the failure of starters to go longer.
    I give BV a pass on this one but not with Beckett.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : Francona wasn't here in 2003, neither was theo if I'm not mistaken. We had a championship team already built, 2004 was a given that we were going to make the PS again.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    You're mistaken about Theo, he was hired before the 2003 season.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : Leaving Beckett in after Murphy's single was not a good call. Mortenson has pitched more than three innings more than once. He did not look tired. Neither McClure nor BV nor, probably, the catcher thought he was tired. BV was trying to get by without using Aceves -- yet. Aceves is becoming a gopher-ball specialist. Missed one by a hair in the ninth. The pen is being ground down by the failure of starters to go longer. I give BV a pass on this one but not with Beckett.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Just don't give Ben C a free pass for leaving Mortensen in the minors way too long when guys were crumbling in the pen. Also Albers deal was a mistake despite Breslow. It's more important to have a strikeout righty with no Atchison (although he thinks he can come back without TJ surgery)--Albers had that ability.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    " He was one of the most mediocre managers I have seen in 50 years of watching baseball. Great at protecting his players while they turned the clubhouse into a circus; terrible tactician."

    Are you seriously saying that Francona was a better manager than Valentine? Francona was the worst manager the Red Sox ever had!

    Plus Mr Yazz's naive rants. 

    You guys are kidding right? 

    Two world series rings say differently, the good news is you will always be outliers. 

    How could Francona be worse than say, Grady Little, who was rather good as well. Francona took over his team and brought a ring home. 

    He outmanaged Torre in the 2004 ALCS. Torre is pretty good also. No way you can argue that. 

    Look, it was time for Francona to leave, and you can even make the argument that he wasn't able to adjust his management style when the team needed a different touch, when the "men" on the team were acting like boys. Maybe he was also willing to lose some regular season games in some cases to ensure postseason performance. Some hated that philosophy, but it served him pretty well. 

    But until someone else wins the world series he will go down as the best manager in Red Sox history and message board hacks won't have one iota of impact on that. 

    p.s. you have two choices: either you can take the stance that a baseball manager is not that important to a team's success, or you can take the stance (that I do) which is that the baseball manager is relatively important to the team's success (though not as important as NFL coach). 

    If you take the latter stance, then you have no choice but to blame that manager for losses and credit him for wins. 

    What you CAN'T do and what is sloppy pathetic argumentation is taking the stance that a manager does impact wins and losses, but then blaming said manager (Francona) for bad seasons but not crediting him for good ones. 

    It's a completely flawed argument and one that will never carry any water in the real world.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]" He was one of the most mediocre managers I have seen in 50 years of watching baseball. Great at protecting his players while they turned the clubhouse into a circus; terrible tactician." Are you seriously saying that Francona was a better manager than Valentine? Francona was the worst manager the Red Sox ever had! Plus Mr Yazz's naive rants.  You guys are kidding right?  Two world series rings say differently, the good news is you will always be outliers.  How could Francona be worse than say, Grady Little, who was rather good as well. Francona took over his team and brought a ring home.  He outmanaged Torre in the 2004 ALCS. Torre is pretty good also. No way you can argue that.  Look, it was time for Francona to leave, and you can even make the argument that he wasn't able to adjust his management style when the team needed a different touch, when the "men" on the team were acting like boys. Maybe he was also willing to lose some regular season games in some cases to ensure postseason performance. Some hated that philosophy, but it served him pretty well.  But until someone else wins the world series he will go down as the best manager in Red Sox history and message board hacks won't have one iota of impact on that.  p.s. you have two choices: either you can take the stance that a baseball manager is not that important to a team's success, or you can take the stance (that I do) which is that the baseball manager is relatively important to the team's success (though not as important as NFL coach).  If you take the latter stance, then you have no choice but to blame that manager for losses and credit him for wins.  What you CAN'T do and what is sloppy pathetic argumentation is taking the stance that a manager does impact wins and losses, but then blaming said manager (Francona) for bad seasons but not crediting him for good ones.  It's a completely flawed argument and one that will never carry any water in the real world.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    Thank you.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]" He was one of the most mediocre managers I have seen in 50 years of watching baseball. Great at protecting his players while they turned the clubhouse into a circus; terrible tactician." Are you seriously saying that Francona was a better manager than Valentine? Francona was the worst manager the Red Sox ever had! Plus Mr Yazz's naive rants.  You guys are kidding right?  Two world series rings say differently, the good news is you will always be outliers.  How could Francona be worse than say, Grady Little, who was rather good as well. Francona took over his team and brought a ring home.  He outmanaged Torre in the 2004 ALCS. Torre is pretty good also. No way you can argue that.  Look, it was time for Francona to leave, and you can even make the argument that he wasn't able to adjust his management style when the team needed a different touch, when the "men" on the team were acting like boys. Maybe he was also willing to lose some regular season games in some cases to ensure postseason performance. Some hated that philosophy, but it served him pretty well.  But until someone else wins the world series he will go down as the best manager in Red Sox history and message board hacks won't have one iota of impact on that.  p.s. you have two choices: either you can take the stance that a baseball manager is not that important to a team's success, or you can take the stance (that I do) which is that the baseball manager is relatively important to the team's success (though not as important as NFL coach).  If you take the latter stance, then you have no choice but to blame that manager for losses and credit him for wins.  What you CAN'T do and what is sloppy pathetic argumentation is taking the stance that a manager does impact wins and losses, but then blaming said manager (Francona) for bad seasons but not crediting him for good ones.  It's a completely flawed argument and one that will never carry any water in the real world.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    It's actually what distinguishes the men from the boys on this forum.

    I don't like Bobby V as a manager but if the Red Sox won a world series with him I would man up and admit I was wrong.

    The people that say that Francona was a bad manager don't get it.  Players like him.  they played hard for him.  

    He was effective.  If you can't even admit that then what can you admit?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    I do not see where it is important to blame Francona for anything except the collapse at the end of last season.  I am not sure that I could say that he was perfect, but wins are wins and 95 per year and two World Series championships was good enough for me.

    The question now is (or should be) is Valentine doing things right enough to stay in his position?  The record would indicate that he has not been a good enough manager with or without all the injuries.

    The manager is a very important part of the team, and I have not seen him do much of anything to build any trust in himself from either the players or the fan base.

    Ownership just gave him a vote of confidence for the rest of the season, but have they really been paying attention?  Could they just be too afraid to admit that they made a big mistake in hiring Valentine? 

    Last place is last place, and a team with the second highest payroll should not be in last place.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    charlie, and furthermore BV is accomplishing his job at a level that Josh Beckett is doing his...yet it's BV who gets a convenient free pass from all the Tito haters. The fact is that no one wants to admit that BV was a bad hire, and the Tito bashers refuse to give Tito any credit as that might make BV look bad. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]charlie, and furthermore BV is accomplishing his job at a level that Josh Beckett is doing his...yet it's BV who gets a convenient free pass from all the Tito haters. The fact is that no one wants to admit that BV was a bad hire, and the Tito bashers refuse to give Tito any credit as that might make BV look bad. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    Danny, not everyone who thinks BV is doing a good job is a Tito-hater.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    ex, i know that. but a lot of the Tito haters are doing this "well, it's ok to be under .500, not his fault"..maybe so, maybe not. I gave 2 reasons that I felt underminded the Sox from winning the last 2 games that were directly related to BV's decisions.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    I'm not saying that any manager wouldn't be in a similar situation the way the Sox have just played very inconsistent baseball, but BV was hired with a big salary club and big salary SPs and every day players, and it's his job to get them to perform..That's unfortunately every manager's job, win or lose.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    BV is a bum. Get rid of him ASAP.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Miscall by Bobby V

    In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Miscall by Bobby V : Are you seriously saying that Francona was a better manager than Valentine? Francona was the worst manager the Red Sox ever had!
    Posted by bosoxmal[/QUOTE]

    Tito was the most successful manager in RS history.

    Valentine is the worst manager in BB.
     
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