mole hill or mountain?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    mole hill or mountain?

    I'm talking about Saturday night's loss to the Jays and specifically the 4th inning when Toronto scored 3 huge runs which basically determined the outcome of the game.

    My argument is that Buchholz would have gotten out of that inning without a scratch but for an egregious mental error by Bogaerts at 3B.  With two outs and nobody on Lawrie hit a routine grounder toward the hole, but easily and cleanly fielded by Bogaerts, who then had an attack of "ready, aim, ready, aim, ready, aim, etc."  When he finally pulled the trigger after taking--I counted them on the replay--six steps with the ball in his possession, Lawrie beat the throw by a full step.  Nobody argued the call at first.  He should have had Lawrie by two steps, period. 

    And that, I would argue, cost the Sox a game at a time when the Sox were/are in a dogfight for the home field advantage.  It was mostly a rookie mistake, but I think another factor might have been in play.  Right now almost the only guy on the Sox who runs out every grounder is Pedroia.  Ortiz begins trotting the instant he sees he hit a grounder to the right side.  Even Ellsbury will slow up when he sees a clean grab of a routine (not one in the hole) grounder.  So maybe seeing that all the time played on Bogaerts mind.  Maybe he didn't expect Lawrie to go all out on an almost (it was in the hole) routine grounder. 

    Funny thing, but in that game I thought Toronto overall played with more determination than the Sox.  This does not mean the Sox don't play with determination because they do.  Only that this is still a horse race (with Oakland) and you can't take a breather. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    Only time will tell.

    But I still have it in the back of my mind that the double pump could and the Wild Throw on the PO attempt could end up costing us the top seed and therefore, the WS......

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?


    Personally , I am sick and tired of Ortiz dogging it.

    Here's a guy who doesn't need to conserve energy becauce he sits on his behind most of the game, but yet he hits a flyball, a grounder or a popup and he runs slower than granny from the Beverly Hillbillies chasing Jethro with a frypan. He simply gives up too soon. Every groundball does not get fielded clean, every infielder is not a gold glover. You simply can't assume an out. Ortiz has been spoiled by fame and success, he forgets that even slugger need to show soem hustle, he needs to watch video of Pedroia....lots of it. 

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    first of all, there are more errors by the defense or misplayed by these defense cuz Farrell do not have a full regular line ups.  

    Once the post season come, we will see all 9 regulars on the field with a normal line up.  So meaning, we will not see much mistake on the field during the post season

    Remember Bogaerts may not even play a game in the post season.  He may be spending all of his time on the bench.  And he is only 20 years old kid.  It is alright for him to make a mistake.  He ll learn from it and get better for the next season!!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:


    Personally , I am sick and tired of Ortiz dogging it.

    Here's a guy who doesn't need to conserve energy becauce he sits on his behind most of the game, but yet he hits a flyball, a grounder or a popup and he runs slower than granny from the Beverly Hillbillies chasing Jethro with a frypan. He simply gives up too soon. Every groundball does not get fielded clean, every infielder is not a gold glover. You simply can't assume an out. Ortiz has been spoiled by fame and success, he forgets that even slugger need to show soem hustle, he needs to watch video of Pedroia....lots of it. 

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell




    no arguement here

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    Which it why I appreciate veterans like Drew on the field. It does make a difference. However, I bet the next time he catches a ball, he will likely not take as many steps. Live and learn.

    As for running out balls, I agree. So many things can happen in seemingly easy plays -- even pop flies. You see guys all standing around thinking the other one has the ball, and it just drops. Balls that seem foul are then called fair.

    All balls hit should be run out. You never know what can happen. You can win or lose a game on one mistake.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    I'm talking about Saturday night's loss to the Jays and specifically the 4th inning when Toronto scored 3 huge runs which basically determined the outcome of the game.

    My argument is that Buchholz would have gotten out of that inning without a scratch but for an egregious mental error by Bogaerts at 3B.  With two outs and nobody on Lawrie hit a routine grounder toward the hole, but easily and cleanly fielded by Bogaerts, who then had an attack of "ready, aim, ready, aim, ready, aim, etc."  When he finally pulled the trigger after taking--I counted them on the replay--six steps with the ball in his possession, Lawrie beat the throw by a full step.  Nobody argued the call at first.  He should have had Lawrie by two steps, period. 

    And that, I would argue, cost the Sox a game at a time when the Sox were/are in a dogfight for the home field advantage.  It was mostly a rookie mistake, but I think another factor might have been in play.  Right now almost the only guy on the Sox who runs out every grounder is Pedroia.  Ortiz begins trotting the instant he sees he hit a grounder to the right side.  Even Ellsbury will slow up when he sees a clean grab of a routine (not one in the hole) grounder.  So maybe seeing that all the time played on Bogaerts mind.  Maybe he didn't expect Lawrie to go all out on an almost (it was in the hole) routine grounder. 

    Funny thing, but in that game I thought Toronto overall played with more determination than the Sox.  This does not mean the Sox don't play with determination because they do.  Only that this is still a horse race (with Oakland) and you can't take a breather. 

     



    Could be attributable to hangovers from the previous night's partying.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    I'm talking about Saturday night's loss to the Jays and specifically the 4th inning when Toronto scored 3 huge runs which basically determined the outcome of the game.

    My argument is that Buchholz would have gotten out of that inning without a scratch but for an egregious mental error by Bogaerts at 3B.  With two outs and nobody on Lawrie hit a routine grounder toward the hole, but easily and cleanly fielded by Bogaerts, who then had an attack of "ready, aim, ready, aim, ready, aim, etc."  When he finally pulled the trigger after taking--I counted them on the replay--six steps with the ball in his possession, Lawrie beat the throw by a full step.  Nobody argued the call at first.  He should have had Lawrie by two steps, period. 

    And that, I would argue, cost the Sox a game at a time when the Sox were/are in a dogfight for the home field advantage.  It was mostly a rookie mistake, but I think another factor might have been in play.  Right now almost the only guy on the Sox who runs out every grounder is Pedroia.  Ortiz begins trotting the instant he sees he hit a grounder to the right side.  Even Ellsbury will slow up when he sees a clean grab of a routine (not one in the hole) grounder.  So maybe seeing that all the time played on Bogaerts mind.  Maybe he didn't expect Lawrie to go all out on an almost (it was in the hole) routine grounder. 

    Funny thing, but in that game I thought Toronto overall played with more determination than the Sox.  This does not mean the Sox don't play with determination because they do.  Only that this is still a horse race (with Oakland) and you can't take a breather. 

     



    Excellent point, and everyone who didn't watch the game with a white cane in their hand saw it.  (PC disclaimer: No offense intended toward those who are visually impaired). 
    As someone in the chat room pointed out at the time, inexperienced Middlebrooks was at 1B in that game so is it possible that Middy wasn't ready to take the throw?

    Whichever person it was, two things are pretty obvious.  Someone "dropped the ball" on that play, and it very likely cost the Sox a Win. 

    Not that this is an excuse for it, but I doubt you'll see that IF again this year.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:


    Personally , I am sick and tired of Ortiz dogging it.

    Here's a guy who doesn't need to conserve energy becauce he sits on his behind most of the game, but yet he hits a flyball, a grounder or a popup and he runs slower than granny from the Beverly Hillbillies chasing Jethro with a frypan. He simply gives up too soon. Every groundball does not get fielded clean, every infielder is not a gold glover. You simply can't assume an out. Ortiz has been spoiled by fame and success, he forgets that even slugger need to show soem hustle, he needs to watch video of Pedroia....lots of it. 

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell

    Now Zilly, surely you JEST ????   If DAD & Bill-806 said this, well you know what would happen !!!!   CUTE !!!


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     


    Personally , I am sick and tired of Ortiz dogging it.

    Here's a guy who doesn't need to conserve energy becauce he sits on his behind most of the game, but yet he hits a flyball, a grounder or a popup and he runs slower than granny from the Beverly Hillbillies chasing Jethro with a frypan. He simply gives up too soon. Every groundball does not get fielded clean, every infielder is not a gold glover. You simply can't assume an out. Ortiz has been spoiled by fame and success, he forgets that even slugger need to show soem hustle, he needs to watch video of Pedroia....lots of it. 

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell

     

    Now Zilly, surely you JEST ????   If DAD & Bill-806 said this, well you know what would happen !!!!   CUTE !!!


     




    The difference is that Zilla hates everyone who makes more than minimun wage.

    You, on the other hand, are fixated on Ortiz, and no one else.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    Yeah, these Red Sox are bad, can't wait until the regular season ends and Cherington goes and re-builds this team to be errorless, hustling demons! If only they had a team that was playoff caliber like those Dodgers in LA.

    I'll classify the OP and all following ones as a MOLEHILL, the size of a mountain!

    Give Boegarts a break...he made an error, end of story...no long term implications will come of it. Regarding Ortiz...he is one hustle double, or close play at first from possibly aggravating his achilles...does anyone know for certain if that is no longer an issue for him?? Seems to me he has been smart not to push it...but let's watch him hustle out a routine grounder to 2B, hit the bag wrong, and lose him for the playoffs, then some here will be happy.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    The clowns always miss the obvious. Better to have Ortiz healthy for the playoffs than not having his bat at all.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Which it why I appreciate veterans like Drew on the field. It does make a difference. However, I bet the next time he catches a ball, he will likely not take as many steps. Live and learn.

    As for running out balls, I agree. So many things can happen in seemingly easy plays -- even pop flies. You see guys all standing around thinking the other one has the ball, and it just drops. Balls that seem foul are then called fair.

    All balls hit should be run out. You never know what can happen. You can win or lose a game on one mistake.




    As do I. To add..the OP makes an excellent point about what I feel is an important role for the veterans on the team - setting a good example. If as the OP suggested Bogie double pumped because he felt no sense of urgency then that is on the team..but if it was just a rookie error..or nerves..then it is on him.

    That being said..if the outcome of a game is going to hinge on a rookie player..then we are at sea. One play should not be a difference maker in a game. Teams win and lose because of the actions( or inactions) of every single player on the team throughout the entire game.

    My number one pet peeve in baseball is watching guys trot to first base on routine ground balls..anything can happen and even little league coaches tell kids to run out every ball.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    I'm talking about Saturday night's loss to the Jays and specifically the 4th inning when Toronto scored 3 huge runs which basically determined the outcome of the game.

    My argument is that Buchholz would have gotten out of that inning without a scratch but for an egregious mental error by Bogaerts at 3B.  With two outs and nobody on Lawrie hit a routine grounder toward the hole, but easily and cleanly fielded by Bogaerts, who then had an attack of "ready, aim, ready, aim, ready, aim, etc."  When he finally pulled the trigger after taking--I counted them on the replay--six steps with the ball in his possession, Lawrie beat the throw by a full step.  Nobody argued the call at first.  He should have had Lawrie by two steps, period. 

    And that, I would argue, cost the Sox a game at a time when the Sox were/are in a dogfight for the home field advantage.  It was mostly a rookie mistake, but I think another factor might have been in play.  Right now almost the only guy on the Sox who runs out every grounder is Pedroia.  Ortiz begins trotting the instant he sees he hit a grounder to the right side.  Even Ellsbury will slow up when he sees a clean grab of a routine (not one in the hole) grounder.  So maybe seeing that all the time played on Bogaerts mind.  Maybe he didn't expect Lawrie to go all out on an almost (it was in the hole) routine grounder. 

    Funny thing, but in that game I thought Toronto overall played with more determination than the Sox.  This does not mean the Sox don't play with determination because they do.  Only that this is still a horse race (with Oakland) and you can't take a breather. 

     



    I think Ortiz is still hurting from his injury to his foot. I remember at the beginning of the year we were told this is a chronic condition. Its obvious that he is not running well at all. I would rather have him not run out easy grounders and have him around for the rest of the year.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?


    Mole hill.

     

    I am going to give you credit for thinking.  I am even going to go as far as saying it's too bad the play happened.  But if anybody in the whole wide world could have the play back, it would be Zander ...

    The ball didn't come out of his glove cleanly ... as I watched the play, it was a simple matter of not getting the grip right.  Just a flinch, and a settling to make sure he had the ball, then the throw.  I know the announcers said he double pumped, but I didn't see it that way.  HOW MUCH BETTER that he didn't throw wildly to first and cost a bigger problem.

    Rookie mistake.

    That I have seen seasoned pros make time and again.

    Simple as that.

    I'll give Lawrie credit for hustling.  Who can fault him for that.

    Error on the kid.  The 20 year old kid.

     

     

    Oh, the Jays playing more intensely?

    Good for them.  Must mean there are some serious pros there too. 

    Our guys had a combination of unusual positions - SS at 3B, 3B at 1B ....

    Our guys had just celebrated their brains out ... becoming only the 4th team in history to lose 93 games one year and win at least 93 the next ...

    They had clinched the first division crown since '97 .... and ...

     

     

    MOLE EFFIN' HILL!!!  Dadgummit. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

     

    Which it why I appreciate veterans like Drew on the field. It does make a difference. However, I bet the next time he catches a ball, he will likely not take as many steps. Live and learn.

    As for running out balls, I agree. So many things can happen in seemingly easy plays -- even pop flies. You see guys all standing around thinking the other one has the ball, and it just drops. Balls that seem foul are then called fair.

    All balls hit should be run out. You never know what can happen. You can win or lose a game on one mistake.

     




    As do I. To add..the OP makes an excellent point about what I feel is an important role for the veterans on the team - setting a good example. If as the OP suggested Bogie double pumped because he felt no sense of urgency then that is on the team..but if it was just a rookie error..or nerves..then it is on him.

     

    That being said..if the outcome of a game is going to hinge on a rookie player..then we are at sea. One play should not be a difference maker in a game. Teams win and lose because of the actions( or inactions) of every single player on the team throughout the entire game.

    My number one pet peeve in baseball is watching guys trot to first base on routine ground balls..anything can happen and even little league coaches tell kids to run out every ball.




    And like tonight, you never know what can happen. Dropped ball, safe at first, run scored on a bad throw. Plays at first, the ones usually not run out, sometimes involve the pitcher. And the pitcher makes a lot of mistakes in those cirumstances due to panic in the situation.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: mole hill or mountain?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:


    Personally , I am sick and tired of Ortiz dogging it.

    Here's a guy who doesn't need to conserve energy becauce he sits on his behind most of the game, but yet he hits a flyball, a grounder or a popup and he runs slower than granny from the Beverly Hillbillies chasing Jethro with a frypan. He simply gives up too soon. Every groundball does not get fielded clean, every infielder is not a gold glover. You simply can't assume an out. Ortiz has been spoiled by fame and success, he forgets that even slugger need to show soem hustle, he needs to watch video of Pedroia....lots of it. 

    "Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."- George Orwell



    cept pedroia doesn't have the heel problem that poppi has does he.

     
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