Re: money ball
posted at 9/16/2013 2:10 PM EDT
In response to S5's comment:
I've defended Iggy and been critical of the trade to the point where I'm SURE nobody wants to hear from me again, but since the OP is about Moneyball and included a reference to Iggy and the long term affect of that trade I guess I need to make (I hope) one more comment about it.
Will someone PLEASE tell me what I'm missing here?
We traded away a GG SS under team control for five years for short money in exchange for a respectable pitcher for 1 1/2 years . I just don't see how that was a good trade. Especially now, since his four wins are only half the lead we have in the division race. The argument can solidly be made that we'd have won the AL East without Peavy, especially when the need at the time was for a reliever. I understand that the FO wanted to make a move to prove to the team that they (the team) had the FO support but I think trading Iggy for ANYONE was an overreaction.
Now I see multiple threads posted talking about what the Sox are going to look like NEXT year, and suddenly this "can't miss SS prospect" isn't included in the SS plans. Did those plans change in the past month, or did the FO always not see Bogarts as the SS of the future?
Am I the only one who sees that Iggy WASN'T blocking Bogarts - the only thing Iggy was "blocking" was the need to sign a FA SS for 2014? Am I the only one who sees that now that we have to pay a FA SS we're going to have less money to sign people like Ellsbury, Salty and maybe Napoli? ? This team was SOLID and quite possible affordable for 2014 with the only major change needed being to slip Iggy into Drew's spot. If they wanted to go cheaper yet they could have moved Middy to 1B and put Bogarts at 3B. That could have given them enough money to sign Ells and Salty and we could have gone forward with a minimum of disruptions.
People think I'm in love with Iggy. I'm not. I just think this trade has screwed up a pretty good 2014 team without appreciably helping the 2013 team. I know this trade is a done deal and I have to live with it. I just wish there was someone else who could see what I'm seeing here and maybe questioning the validity of what happened.
Thanks for reading my (redundant) rant. :-)
Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.
To say that the Sox still would have won the Division w/o the Iggy trade is something of a leap. Maybe they would have but it's not a given. It's not as simple as taking Peavy out and putting Workman in and saying everything else would have been he same.
First, even though Workman has been up and down in the pen, he's still been an arm out there. So if he wasn't pitching, someone would have had to pick up his innings.
Second, Workman was pitching well as a starter, but who knows if he would have hit a wall like Doubrant and other young pitchers do. And it's not whether or not he won the game, it's how deep in the games would have he gone if he hit the wall. The fact is, Peavy has gone deep into games, which has helped the bullpen. If Workman hit the wall and didn't go deep into games, there's a domino affect in regard to the bullpen. Maybe the Sox still would be in first place but a bullpen that is in more dissarray and burnt out.
Third, the Sox pulled away in part because of great pitching and also because of hitting. And both Middlebrooks and Drew have played a big part in that and both were the key reason the Sox won some games. Since the trade:
Middlebrooks: 116 PA, 18 R, 4 2B, 6 HR, 17 RBI, .308 BA, .371 OBP, .519 SLG, 890 OPS.
Drew: 158 PA, 19 R, 12 2B, 5 HR, 24 RBI, .283/.361/.478/.839
Iggy: 127 PA, 11 R, 6 2B, 2 HR, 10 RBI .288/.328/.390/.718
So while Iggy has been OK at the plate, both Middlebrooks and Drew have been more productive at the plate, and Igg's defense isn't enough to make up for it. So if Iggy has stayed, the lineup wouldn't have been as strong at the bottom.
It's not a simple as keeping everything the same and simply putting Workman in for Peavy.
RIGHT NOW, the Sox are stronger with Peavy as the No. 4 starter as Dempster has been inconsistent and Doubrant has hit a wall. And the lineup is stronger with Middlebrooks and Drew on the left side rather than Drew/Iggy or Middlebrooks/Iggy.