Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    Because things often get posted out of context or get misinterpreted, here is a excerpt from the WEEI story that explains that "lost his fire" comment. In it, he also says he didn't get complacent.

    Competition, he explained, wasn't the reason he found himself playing well enough to make Kevin Youkilis expendable a season ago, and isn't what will pull his batting average.

    "Yeah, everyone has different buttons to push. I'm just a competitive person when it comes down to it. It doesn't matter if it's for a job. I feel like I kind of got away from that," Middlebrooks said. "I don't know if I got complacent, I wouldn't call it that. But I just kind of lost that edge for a little bit. I don't know if it was because I was dealing with injuries and thinking about that stuff, and just not locked into, 'I'm going to kick that guy's a ss' every pitch. That's who I am. That's who I've always been. Pitch by pitch, you're not going to beat me this pitch. And if you do, I'm going to get your a ss next pitch. That's it. Move on. I got away from that mentality."

    As Middlebrooks speaks, it's easy to buy what he's selling.

    It's easy to understand that his own internal fire -- the one he said had been inexplicably doused -- is what is now steering him, not the presence of Iglesias. It's what is driving up his blood pressure with each word, and why he felt obligated to write the word "compete" on the inside of his glove.

    It's not like he needs a reminder, but after what transpired earlier in the season, Middlebrooks is leaving nothing to chance.

    "I lost that little spark, that fire, coming in and being pissed for no other reason than they're trying to beat me today. I'm getting that back," he said. "I went 1-for-7 the other day, and I felt [expletive] good because I left the game knowing I was competing. I had that little fire back in me and it's starting to get going again. Does that mean I'm going to go on a streak of hitting .500 the next two weeks? Probably not, because that's hard to do. But those completive juices are back flowing. I cleared my head, and I'm getting healthy again."

    Middlebrooks has only played in two games since coming back from the 15-day disabled list, but he clearly has used those two games as his springboard to fixing what he felt had been broken.

    Perhaps is was the time away from the lineup, or maybe it was getting the chance to observe and reflect while not having results define each day. But he can now admit, and identify, the differences in his approach and his demeanor. It was the kind of self-evaluation that had been percolating with each passing game.

    "I knew it," Middlebrooks said. "I'd sit here after games, be frustrated, beating the crap out of myself about it because I knew it. I would come in here after every game and think about the game. When I'm done with the game, after I come in, I'll spend about five, 10 minutes … I'll come in here and be in my uniform. I just come in, I think about the game and what went on, and when I get up, I'm done with it. That way I can move on to the next day. That's my time, when I come in and evaluate what I did, what I could do different, what they tried to do to me.

    "I think I lost the confidence. I was struggling. I'd struggled, but never really on this stage, dealing with stuff in my body. I just kind of got down and it sucked. It was frustrating. Snowball effect."

    And if there is any doubt about the mindset, the reminder on the inside of his glove serves as a fail-safe.

    "That's who I am. When I'm at my best, I'm just competing and I'm going to kick somebody's a ss," Middlebrooks said. "I'm not worried about Joe [expletive] the barber in the stands, the umpire calling stuff a couple of inches off the plate. ... I'm not even worried about my approach. I'm just seeing the ball and trying to beat his a ss. He's trying to beat me. It's as simple as that."

     

    Contrary to comments on this thread, Middlebrooks wasn't handed the 3B job. He earned it last year in 85 games, which isn't a small sample. It's like any other position, he earned the job with his play so the next year, he goes into the season as a starter. That's not being "handed" the job.

    Now, like any other player, if he doesn't produce, it reaches a point where decisons have to be made. In these situations, being patient tends to pay bigger dividends that having a short leash. Because of his play, Iggy has earned playing time at the expense of Drew and Middlebrooks so Middlebrooks has already seen a cutback in his playing time.

    But Middlebrooks' potentials payoff as a RH power hitter makes it worth staying patient with him. I didn't like his comment earlier about him being a power hitter and ot changing his approach, but lately it seems like he has learned his lesson. His last homer was to right and last night, he went the opposite way at least once. So it looks like he isn't trying to pull everything.

    It will reach a point where th Sox might need to find a replacement for Middlebrooks for the stretch run, but I think it's worth letting it play out a little longer and continue the Iggy-Middlebrooks-Drew platoon.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:


    Last night loss, was because of Pitching. Blown save.



    Middlebrooks was up with the bases loaded and had a chance to bat in some runs. He flied out meekly. He is an automatic out nowadays. Its time for him to go back to Pawtucket for a very long time-maybe all year. I would bring up Drew Sutton who is mediocre at best, but an improvement on Middlebrooks, who is hurting the team.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I think a demotion to AAA would be a wake up call.  He needs to prove that he can produce.  Presently , he is not producing. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.




    I agree with you dgalehouse   Laughing

    Or send him to AA.   LOL

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    Here's what Kimmi was pointing out.

    Quotes from Middlebrooks:

    "Yeah, everyone has different buttons to push. I'm just a competitive person when it comes down to it. It doesn't matter if it's for a job. I feel like I kind of got away from that," Middlebrooks said. "I don't know if I got complacent, I wouldn't call it that. But I just kind of lost that edge for a little bit. I don't know if it was because I was dealing with injuries and thinking about that stuff, and just not locked into, 'I'm going to kick that guy's a**' every pitch. That's who I am. That's who I've always been. Pitch by pitch, you're not going to beat me this pitch. And if you do, I'm going to get your a** next pitch. That's it. Move on. I got away from that mentality." ...

     

    "I lost that little spark, that fire, coming in and being pissed for no other reason than they're trying to beat me today. I'm getting that back," he said. "I went 1-for-7 the other day, and I felt [expletive] good because I left the game knowing I was competing. I had that little fire back in me and it's starting to get going again. Does that mean I'm going to go on a streak of hitting .500 the next two weeks? Probably not, because that's hard to do. But those completive juices are back flowing. I cleared my head, and I'm getting healthy again."...

     

    "I knew it," Middlebrooks said. "I'd sit here after games, be frustrated, beating the crap out of myself about it because I knew it. I would come in here after every game and think about the game. When I'm done with the game, after I come in, I'll spend about five, 10 minutes … I'll come in here and be in my uniform. I just come in, I think about the game and what went on, and when I get up, I'm done with it. That way I can move on to the next day. That's my time, when I come in and evaluate what I did, what I could do different, what they tried to do to me.

    "I think I lost the confidence. I was struggling. I'd struggled, but never really on this stage, dealing with stuff in my body. I just kind of got down and it sucked. It was frustrating. Snowball effect."...

     

    "That's who I am. When I'm at my best, I'm just competing and I'm going to kick somebody's a**," Middlebrooks said. "I'm not worried about Joe [expletive] the barber in the stands, the umpire calling stuff a couple of inches off the plate. ... I'm not even worried about my approach. I'm just seeing the ball and trying to beat his a**. He's trying to beat me. It's as simple as that." ...

    "I feel a lot better than I did the past month, month and a half. So, I don't want to go on the DL," he said. "I hate sitting out. If I'm 75 percent, I feel like I can help us win, and I'm not going to get any better sitting on the bench. I'm not going to dig myself out of a hole sitting on the bench. I'm not going to kick [the opponent's] a** sitting on the bench. I can flick seeds on him. That's about it."

     

     

    On Iggy:  "I'm never competing with my teammates. We're together and we're trying to kick their a**. I'm not trying to kick his a**. He's doing his job. Good. Because we're trying to win."

     

    "I like it," Middlebrooks said of the expectations. "I don't want people to say, 'He might struggle.' I'm good. I'm [expletive] good. I'm a good player. Do I have developing to do and growing to do? Yes, of course. When you stop getting better, you need to quit. Was this a hard two months for me to swallow? Yeah, man. I hate letting my teammates down. There's plenty of times I could have won the game for us and I didn't. Is that going to change? You bet your a**. … I just want to win. That's it. I just want to win, somehow."

     

    Sox4ever

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to hill55's comment:


    Will Middlebrooks has a WAR* of a negative 0.8 in 53 games this season while Seattle catcher Jesus Montero had a WAR of a negative 0.3 in 29 MLB games before being sent down to Triple A and undergoing knee surgery. Minnesota rookie outfielder Aaron Hicks had a WAR of a negative 0.5 in 55 games before landing on the disabled list.

    Those approach "doing as poorly as Middlebrooks."

    WM 53 G, 216 PA, .192/.228/.389/.617, OPS+ 62

    JM 29 G, 110 PA, .208/.264/.327/.590, OPS+ 69

    AH 55 G, 211 PA, .179/.249/.326/.575, OPS+ 58

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs



    Middlebrooks didn't cost the Red Sox Pineda.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Will Middlebrooks has a WAR* of a negative 0.8 in 53 games this season while Seattle catcher Jesus Montero had a WAR of a negative 0.3 in 29 MLB games before being sent down to Triple A and undergoing knee surgery. Minnesota rookie outfielder Aaron Hicks had a WAR of a negative 0.5 in 55 games before landing on the disabled list.

    Those approach "doing as poorly as Middlebrooks."

    WM 53 G, 216 PA, .192/.228/.389/.617, OPS+ 62

    JM 29 G, 110 PA, .208/.264/.327/.590, OPS+ 69

    AH 55 G, 211 PA, .179/.249/.326/.575, OPS+ 58

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

    Middlebrooks didn't cost the Red Sox Pineda.



    Michael Pineda has now pitched all of 8.1 innings since the Jesus Montero trade (all at the Advanced A level ... and the righhander has pitched well in the small sample):

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=501381

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    OK, OK.  I do see the merit in comparing players and working up all those stats.  It's fun and might even justify an opinion or two.

    But to me it's this simple.  Farrell and Cherington have WMB on the roster for a reason.  The guy they let go when letting go needed to happen was Ciriaco. 

    The Sox are leading the AL East and are at or near the top of the AL in wins, and we are rapidly closing in on the midway point of the season.   So they are unlikely to move Middlebrooks anywhere unless and until somebody really good in AA or, more likely, AAA is ready, and right now that guy is not Bogaerts. 

    There can be no question that Middlebrooks is struggling right now, for whatever reason(s).  What is becoming increasingly apparent that he is slipping into Ciriaco's old slot of utility infielder.  He got to play yesterday against a lefty, but is sitting today against a righty, and Iglesias, who also played yesterday, is playing again today against a righty. On the other hand, Middlebrooks does have power and does have the arm and moves to play 3B reasonably well--he's got potential, so the Sox don't want to let him go either.   

    So to me all the talk about what to do about Middlebrooks is just talk. 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

     

    That's what this site is all about... talk.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    Sounds like both Iggy and Middleman are believing and saying the right stuff, they both want to do well because that helps the team to win. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

     

    His swing is fundamentally flawed. His hips are flying open before his hands are through the zone. If I were the hitting coach, I would open his stance slightly so he can close on the pitch, and have him work on hitting the ball the other way to get back on track.









    "You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow.  Tomorrow it may rain."  ~ Leo Durocher

     



    Your right, but I think it goes even one step further...
    His approach is fundamentally flawed which is causing the bad swing. He has it in his head that he needs to hit the long ball and doubles. Hes trying to pull everything and go yard, opening his hips too early. Hes also very anxious up there. Its pretty noticeable to me.

     

    He needs to relax, take what they give him and just make contact. His strength, like Jim Ed, will help him hit the ball over the fence to all fields. I think going to AAA and making him earn a spot, like Iggy had to, will benefit this kid and the Sox in the long run.

    See, I wonder if just being handed the 3b job without any competition made him a little complacent. Everyone thought Iggy should have been handed the SS job with a sub 200BA. Not me. Iggy worked unbelievably hard, put on solid muscle weight and earned an MLB job this year. Maybe WMB needs the same thing.



    I believe it's all related to his wrist. I know first hand that the scaphoid fracture ( I believe that was his injury) take anywhere from 12 to 18 mos to heal and get out of his head. Right now he's trying to compensate with other parts of his body ( like flying open his hips) because his hands can't get there. Pitches that he could handle pretty well last he can't now...hence, bad habits develop. I would NOT GIVE UP on WM ...no way, ease him in here n there against a decent match up....get his confidence going, and maybe by the end of the yr he will catch fire...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

     

    Excellent points. If it's true, it's another case of an injured player hurting himself and his team.

     

    His swing is fundamentally flawed. His hips are flying open before his hands are through the zone. If I were the hitting coach, I would open his stance slightly so he can close on the pitch, and have him work on hitting the ball the other way to get back on track.









    "You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow.  Tomorrow it may rain."  ~ Leo Durocher

     

     



    Your right, but I think it goes even one step further...
    His approach is fundamentally flawed which is causing the bad swing. He has it in his head that he needs to hit the long ball and doubles. Hes trying to pull everything and go yard, opening his hips too early. Hes also very anxious up there. Its pretty noticeable to me.

     

     

    He needs to relax, take what they give him and just make contact. His strength, like Jim Ed, will help him hit the ball over the fence to all fields. I think going to AAA and making him earn a spot, like Iggy had to, will benefit this kid and the Sox in the long run.

    See, I wonder if just being handed the 3b job without any competition made him a little complacent. Everyone thought Iggy should have been handed the SS job with a sub 200BA. Not me. Iggy worked unbelievably hard, put on solid muscle weight and earned an MLB job this year. Maybe WMB needs the same thing.

     



    I believe it's all related to his wrist. I know first hand that the scaphoid fracture ( I believe that was his injury) take anywhere from 12 to 18 mos to heal and get out of his head. Right now he's trying to compensate with other parts of his body ( like flying open his hips) because his hands can't get there. Pitches that he could handle pretty well last he can't now...hence, bad habits develop. I would NOT GIVE UP on WM ...no way, ease him in here n there against a decent match up....get his confidence going, and maybe by the end of the yr he will catch fire...

     




     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    "It's a wonder that [they] still know how to breathe"

    Sox4ever

     
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