Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    Moon - Can you do the great research you do and provide a list of players hiting as poorly as Middlebrooks? I know BJ Upton on the Braves has been awful but he's got a multi year contract. Adam Dunn is also hitting sub .200, but he's got HR's.

    Who is as bad out there with as little service time? Probably no one. It's not Apil anymore. We are almost into July, he's got over 200 at bats and he's hitting .192

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    His swing is fundamentally flawed. His hips are flying open before his hands are through the zone. If I were the hitting coach, I would open his stance slightly so he can close on the pitch, and have him work on hitting the ball the other way to get back on track.









    "You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow.  Tomorrow it may rain."  ~ Leo Durocher

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    His swing is fundamentally flawed. His hips are flying open before his hands are through the zone. If I were the hitting coach, I would open his stance slightly so he can close on the pitch, and have him work on hitting the ball the other way to get back on track.









    "You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow.  Tomorrow it may rain."  ~ Leo Durocher



    Exactly, but the Red Sox can't afford to fix a guys swing at the MLB level. That's what the minor leagues are for. Putting him out there every day to go 0 for is not productive for the team.  But, he'll be out there tonight. Farrell already said as such.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    "Don't bogart that third base job, my friend. Pass it over to me."

    -Xander

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    His swing is fundamentally flawed. His hips are flying open before his hands are through the zone. If I were the hitting coach, I would open his stance slightly so he can close on the pitch, and have him work on hitting the ball the other way to get back on track.









    "You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow.  Tomorrow it may rain."  ~ Leo Durocher



    Your right, but I think it goes even one step further...
    His approach is fundamentally flawed which is causing the bad swing. He has it in his head that he needs to hit the long ball and doubles. Hes trying to pull everything and go yard, opening his hips too early. Hes also very anxious up there. Its pretty noticeable to me.

    He needs to relax, take what they give him and just make contact. His strength, like Jim Ed, will help him hit the ball over the fence to all fields. I think going to AAA and making him earn a spot, like Iggy had to, will benefit this kid and the Sox in the long run.

    See, I wonder if just being handed the 3b job without any competition made him a little complacent. Everyone thought Iggy should have been handed the SS job with a sub 200BA. Not me. Iggy worked unbelievably hard, put on solid muscle weight and earned an MLB job this year. Maybe WMB needs the same thing.

     
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    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority


    Will Middlebrooks has a WAR* of a negative 0.8 in 53 games this season while Seattle catcher Jesus Montero had a WAR of a negative 0.3 in 29 MLB games before being sent down to Triple A and undergoing knee surgery. Minnesota rookie outfielder Aaron Hicks had a WAR of a negative 0.5 in 55 games before landing on the disabled list.

    Those approach "doing as poorly as Middlebrooks."

    WM 53 G, 216 PA, .192/.228/.389/.617, OPS+ 62

    JM 29 G, 110 PA, .208/.264/.327/.590, OPS+ 69

    AH 55 G, 211 PA, .179/.249/.326/.575, OPS+ 58

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    Relax, we got it already. You got to have patience with kids. Upton and Dunn have been in MLB a little longer.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    There are 200 MLB players with 200+ PAs so far this season. (About 7 per team average)

    In WAR, Middlebrooks ranks 191 at -0.8.

    Below him are:

    Prado, Betancourt, Konerko, I Davis, S Castro, M Kemp, VMart, M Izturis, and Keppinger. (Many of these names were players coveted by softy and other clowns from this board.)

     

    BA: 4 are worse than Midds (I Davis, BJ Upton, Hicks and Dunn.

     

    OPS: there are 20 below Middlebrooks, so he is not even in the bottom 10%.

     

    One problem we have is that the only viable replacement we have on the roster is Iggy, who is best suited at SS. To play Iggy at SS means playing a nearly as poor hitter in Stephen Drew.

     

     

     

     

    Sox4ever.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority


    Last night loss, was because of Pitching. Blown save.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:


    Last night loss, was because of Pitching. Blown save.



    Lackey and Uehara's great performances were wasted last night thanks to Bailey.  

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    "Don't bogart that third base job, my friend. Pass it over to me."

    -Xander



    That sentiment is Cecchin-on

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    See, I wonder if just being handed the 3b job without any competition made him a little complacent. Everyone thought Iggy should have been handed the SS job with a sub 200BA. Not me. Iggy worked unbelievably hard, put on solid muscle weight and earned an MLB job this year. Maybe WMB needs the same thing.




    Middlebrooks himself said he lost his fire.  It's hard to understand how a young kid, given a full time starting job on a winning major league team, can lose his fire.

    I agree that Will would benefit from some time at AAA.  IMO, he hasn't been sent down yet because the depth at that position is thin.  Iggy right now deserves to be playing 3B over him, but having Will sitting on the bench isn't going to help his development.

     

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    Moon - Can you do the great research you do and provide a list of players hiting as poorly as Middlebrooks? I know BJ Upton on the Braves has been awful but he's got a multi year contract. Adam Dunn is also hitting sub .200, but he's got HR's.

    Who is as bad out there with as little service time? Probably no one. It's not Apil anymore. We are almost into July, he's got over 200 at bats and he's hitting .192

     




    Middy has been the worst offensively by far and Iggy is a better 3B to my surprise.  I also think Iggy is more athletic and covers more ground so he could stick at the position at some point if Bogy remains at SS.  Middy needs to take all the advice given to him offensively very seriously and learn from it, or he just could end up trade bait at some point. 

    What we lose in power by not playing Middy as much Iggy more thanks makes up for with better defense and a higher OBP at this point.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    WMB is a young player struggling.  Every year we see tons of young players that struggle.  Some of them make the adjustments and become stars, and some of them never do.

    The thing is WMB proved he can hit MLB pitching with almost a half season of all-star production last year.  But the league has obviously adjusted to him, so it is on him to make an adjustment on his end.  He needs to make that adjustment here as there is really nothing left for him to prove at AAA.  He needs to prove he can hit pitches to the opposite field and be more patient at the plate.

    That doesn't mean we give him the free pass to **** all year, especially in a playoff run.

    I'm confident that WMB is going to have a good career, I would bet he makes a few allstar teams....but if he doesn't do something soon then I don't think it will be in Boston. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    WMB is a young player struggling.  Every year we see tons of young players that struggle.  Some of them make the adjustments and become stars, and some of them never do.

    The thing is WMB proved he can hit MLB pitching with almost a half season of all-star production last year.  But the league has obviously adjusted to him, so it is on him to make an adjustment on his end.  He needs to make that adjustment here as there is really nothing left for him to prove at AAA.  He needs to prove he can hit pitches to the opposite field and be more patient at the plate.

    That doesn't mean we give him the free pass to **** all year, especially in a playoff run.

    I'm confident that WMB is going to have a good career, I would bet he makes a few allstar teams....but if he doesn't do something soon then I don't think it will be in Boston. 




    Some things he has said in interviews really worry me though hugh. Saying hes here to hit HR and doubles, that he lost his fire. Those are red flags to me and also say a lot about his approach at the plate. Both are negative. This is why he has the numbers he does.

    A trip to AAA and giving Iggy the 3b job shouldnt be too far away. Maybe it will wake him up and make him take a new approach and get that "fire' back. By the way, how does a 24yr old who just made it to MLB after 5 years in the nimors lose his fire? Thats a scary statement.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    When/Where did WMB make that statement, I must of missed it?

    The HR/2B statement wouldn't really bother me, it's kinda something he might think he is expected to say...but the loss of fire is not something you want to hear. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    When/Where did WMB make that statement, I must of missed it?

    The HR/2B statement wouldn't really bother me, it's kinda something he might think he is expected to say...but the loss of fire is not something you want to hear. 




    Yeah, he said it. Id have to search around for it, but you know I wouldnt make something up like that.

    The HR/2b thing worrys me because thats certainly not a good mindset to have in MLB as a young player. The approach at the plate is not a good one to have and we are seeing why this year.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    When/Where did WMB make that statement, I must of missed it?

    The HR/2B statement wouldn't really bother me, it's kinda something he might think he is expected to say...but the loss of fire is not something you want to hear. 




    Here's a link:

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/rob-bradford/2013/06/13/will-middlebrooks-i-lost-little-spark-fire

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    Do you think he said it in more of way in which he was refering to the short term, expressing his frustrations? sometimes things don't come out right when you are in a low place.  I hope he figures it out....last year he was the #1 rated prospect in our system absolutely destroying AAA/MLB pitching.  

    I think he will hit, but we can't live with a .200 hitter all season either.  Hopefully he picks it up, he looked good last night.  He had zero hits but he easily could have been 3-4 last night.  He hit the ball hard and hit it right at people, and had a couple hits stolen from him.

    Of course he has to do that consistently, and if he does he will break out of this slump.  Sometimes that's how it happens though, you see a guy start to drive the ball but the results don't come immediately, but they will eventually.  

    He's definitely under the micrscope now...that's for sure.  This is a very important time for the youn kid. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    When/Where did WMB make that statement, I must of missed it?

    The HR/2B statement wouldn't really bother me, it's kinda something he might think he is expected to say...but the loss of fire is not something you want to hear.



    Perhaps this February quote is the statement: “I’m very aggressive, that’s the player I am,” he said. “I’m never going to walk a lot. Am I going to strike out? Yeah. But I’m going to get my money’s worth because I’m not up there to hit singles. I’m up there to drive in runs and use the park to my advantage.”

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/14/will-middlebrooks-working-improve-his-approach/h7bKbgXNNIoGr82rZVs5lK/story.html

    In April Middlebrooks was quoted:

    “I’m not going to get too down about it. It’s part of the game,” he said. “We’re 15 games in, 60 at-bats maybe out of about 600. I’m not too worried about it. I’m not going to change my routine; I’m not going to change my approach. I’m not going to change my bats.”

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/04/18/will-middlebrooks-gets-day-off/UegClvXa1dsPqkygj9SrbI/story.html

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    I think a demotion to AAA would be a wake up call.  He needs to prove that he can produce.  Presently , he is not producing. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    Moon - Can you do the great research you do and provide a list of players hiting as poorly as Middlebrooks? I know BJ Upton on the Braves has been awful but he's got a multi year contract. Adam Dunn is also hitting sub .200, but he's got HR's.

    Who is as bad out there with as little service time? Probably no one. It's not Apil anymore. We are almost into July, he's got over 200 at bats and he's hitting .192

     




    Middy has been the worst offensively by far and Iggy is a better 3B to my surprise.  I also think Iggy is more athletic and covers more ground so he could stick at the position at some point if Bogy remains at SS.  Middy needs to take all the advice given to him offensively very seriously and learn from it, or he just could end up trade bait at some point. 

    What we lose in power by not playing Middy as much Iggy more thanks makes up for with better defense and a higher OBP at this point.

     



    There's no way Bogaerts will ever be as good a fielder at SS as Iggy. He should be the one groomed for 3B, like I said over a year ago. If Middy ever gets his act together, he can play 1B after Naps walks.

    Right now, the choice is this:

    Middlebrooks vs Drew.

    Iggys is a better defensive SS than Drew.

    Iggy is a better defensive 3Bman than Middlebrooks.

    Drew has done better than Middlebrooks on offense, except over the last 14 days:

    Last 28 days/14 days OPS:

    Drew .691/.401

    Midd  .469/.469

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    WMB is a young player struggling.  Every year we see tons of young players that struggle.  Some of them make the adjustments and become stars, and some of them never do.

    The thing is WMB proved he can hit MLB pitching with almost a half season of all-star production last year.  But the league has obviously adjusted to him, so it is on him to make an adjustment on his end.  He needs to make that adjustment here as there is really nothing left for him to prove at AAA.  He needs to prove he can hit pitches to the opposite field and be more patient at the plate.

    That doesn't mean we give him the free pass to **** all year, especially in a playoff run.

    I'm confident that WMB is going to have a good career, I would bet he makes a few allstar teams....but if he doesn't do something soon then I don't think it will be in Boston.



    To be precise, Will Middlebrooks provided All Star production for his first 40 games last season, posting a .331/.368/.592/.960 line, before slumping to a .240/.276/.416/.692 line in his final 35 games.

    Middlebrooks has about as much chance of making an All Star team as Seattle farmhand Alex Liddi, who was Middlebrooks' same-age, same-size, same-handedness opposing starting thirdbaseman in the 2011 Futures Game. Liddi's MLB career sample size resembles Middlebrooks' 2013 sample size:

    AL 61 G, 188 PA, .208/.266/.370/.636, OPS+ 80

    WM 53 G, 216 PA, .192/.228./.385/.617, OPS+ 62

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Moon: Please list players doing as poorly as Middlebooks and with his lack of seniority

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    WMB is a young player struggling.  Every year we see tons of young players that struggle.  Some of them make the adjustments and become stars, and some of them never do.

     

     

    The thing is WMB proved he can hit MLB pitching with almost a half season of all-star production last year.  But the league has obviously adjusted to him, so it is on him to make an adjustment on his end.  He needs to make that adjustment here as there is really nothing left for him to prove at AAA.  He needs to prove he can hit pitches to the opposite field and be more patient at the plate.

    That doesn't mean we give him the free pass to **** all year, especially in a playoff run.

    I'm confident that WMB is going to have a good career, I would bet he makes a few allstar teams....but if he doesn't do something soon then I don't think it will be in Boston.

     



    To be precise, Will Middlebrooks provided All Star production for his first 40 games last season, posting a .331/.368/.592/.960 line, before slumping to a .240/.276/.416/.692 line in his final 35 games.

     

     

    Middlebrooks has about as much chance of making an All Star team as Seattle farmhand Alex Liddi, who was Middlebrooks' same-age, same-size, same-handedness opposing starting thirdbaseman in the 2011 Futures Game. Liddi's MLB career sample size resembles Middlebrooks' 2013 sample size:

    AL 61 G, 188 PA, .208/.266/.370/.636, OPS+ 80

    WM 53 G, 216 PA, .192/.228./.385/.617, OPS+ 62

     



    He went into a slump last year yes  But you can't say ignore these 40 games and look at these 35.  If you average them out and look at a 162 game average he was a monster last year.  With that said his struggles have carried over into this season and gotten worse so perhaps that makes his final month stand out more last year.

     

    But all in all....he played like an all star last year....obviously he is not this year.  Also the Hypothetical all-star games that Will Middlebrooks will play in are in the future and will be based on those years statistics.  That is of course if he lives up to his potential, which he showed last year.  The league has adjusted, this is likely one of the last big steps he will ever have to take to become that great player he was supposed to be....either he does or he doesn't.

    I think I've said this 10 times today, I think WMB because a very good player, but it just might not be in Boston. 

     

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