More hard evidence for the case against Francona

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    How can Francona continue to let Longoria beat him?

    There was absolutely no reason to pitch to him and let him; does Francona think Zobrist is even in the same league as Longoria?

    He should be walked intentionally every possible AB.  Let Francona get into the Rays heads the way Maddon gets into some of our guys.

    Simply pathetic. 

    OK - I am ready for the Francona sympathizers now - let's hear the defense........
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    I'm not saying you're 100% wrong but I can assure you that few if any mgrs would walk a RH bat to face a switch hitter with a righty on the mound.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from thee---crawful. Show thee---crawful's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    there is no defending the worst field manager in baseball. the guy is clueless.
    when the SOX don't make the playoffs, hopefully 'coma will be fired.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    Zorbist is or was leading the league in extra base hits as of a month ago - he is having a career year. He is a very complete player.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from plinny. Show plinny's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    If the team had been managed to win the division then perhaps this series would not mean so much.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gbman87603. Show gbman87603's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    So you are saying to walk the bases loaded in the SECOND inning to bring up a guy who "this year" is hitting for a higher avg then Longoria and also in the top of the league in doubles? Not smart baseball. Lets stop blaming the coach, while I think Francona sticks with guys to a fault, it was not his doing that the sox could only score 1 run with the bases loaded and 1 out....and lets not forget that the Rays have the best SP staff in the AL.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from thee---crawful. Show thee---crawful's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]So you are saying to walk the bases loaded in the SECOND inning to bring up a guy who "this year" is hitting for a higher avg then Longoria and also in the top of the league in doubles? Not smart baseball. Lets stop blaming the coach, while I think Francona sticks with guys to a fault, it was not his doing that the sox could only score 1 run with the bases loaded and 1 out....and lets not forget that the Rays have the best SP staff in the AL.
    Posted by gbman87603[/QUOTE]


    "not smart baseball" has been 'coma's mantra since he's been here.
    fortunately for tito, he has apologists like you to keep defending him.



    fire theo and tito!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]So you are saying to walk the bases loaded in the SECOND inning to bring up a guy who "this year" is hitting for a higher avg then Longoria and also in the top of the league in doubles? Not smart baseball. Lets stop blaming the coach, while I think Francona sticks with guys to a fault, it was not his doing that the sox could only score 1 run with the bases loaded and 1 out....and lets not forget that the Rays have the best SP staff in the AL.
    Posted by gbman87603[/QUOTE]
    Yep, that's what they're saying. Some stuff you just can't make up.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    You guys can not believe that Zobrist has a better chance to drive in a run than Longoria?  Or can you?????? 

    I would walk Longoria in nearly every AB this entire series and be very open about it.  Think about it - you essentially eliminate their best hitter and you significantly decrease their chances of winning.  He does not have protection in line up.  Go for throat.  Expose the weakness.  If Zobrist beats you then you aren't a good enough team to make the playoffs.  But if you let Longoria beat you then you are too stupid to be in the playoffs.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona : Yep, that's what they're saying. Some stuff you just can't make up.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    wow so here we are again focusing on Batting Averages.  So I take it that guys everywhere from Salty to Kotchman are better hitters than Longoria because they have a higher batting average?

    If I could make this stuff up I'd be writing for NBC and HBO.........
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona : "not smart baseball" has been 'coma's mantra since he's been here. fortunately for tito, he has apologists like you to keep defending him. fire theo and tito!!
    Posted by thee---crawful[/QUOTE]

    You are clueless.  There is not a single manager who would employ that strategy so early in a game.  Sparky Anderson may be the lone exception to this but something like that would probably be employed approximately once a decade!  The problem with this team isn't Francona.  It is a decimated pitching staff which snowballs because you have guys like Kyle Weiland starting games  so that you need to go into the bullpen in the 3rd or 4th inning.  This in turn causes a ripple effect that depletes the entire bullpen because guys are suddenly pitching longer for multiple innings and shouldering much more of the workload then they signed on for.  Furthermore at the end of any 162 game season these guys are already wasted so this further depletes them.  All you bashers haven't the first idea how to manage a team when they're healthy let alone in situations when 40% of the team is beat up or on the DL.  Francona is still one of the top 5 managers in all of baseball.

    John Henry did not make billions throwing money away on stupid business ventures and wouldn't keep a guy like Francona around if he was a lousy manager.  That means a great deal more than trolls like you with 8 freakin' posts!  Where are you  when this team is in a good mode.  Nowhere to be seen like all trolls!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona : wow so here we are again focusing on Batting Averages.  So I take it that guys everywhere from Salty to Kotchman are better hitters than Longoria because they have a higher batting average? If I could make this stuff up I'd be writing for NBC and HBO.........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Mitch, I didn't say anything about the batting averages. But you're making it sound like it's a matter of walking Babe Ruth to face Wally Cox.

    Zobrist leads MLB in doubles with 45 (not to mention six triples). He has 82 RBI to Longoria's 85. He's batting .556 this year (and .405 in his career with 5 HR) with the bases loaded. So yes, he has as good a chance as driving in a run as Longoria.

    I wouldn't have called it a dumb move to walk Longoria, either, because with a young Triple-A pitcher on the hill in that situation, it really was pick your poison. Had he put Longoria on and Zobrist gone deep, you'd have ripped him for that.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    "It's only the 2nd inning"

    and

    "It's only Septmeber"

    These games need to be played with much more a sense of urgency. 

    Is it better than Longoria hits a 3 Run Homer in the 7th inning or the 2nd inning?  Correct me if I am wrong here because I ain't no manager for a billionaire but I believe both equal 3 runs, correct?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from gbman87603. Show gbman87603's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    If its the 6th inning or later, I can see doing it....but not in the second inning, Longoria isn't Barry Bonds or Albert Pujols.....

    I'm not a Francona apologist, but MOST of the time it comes down to the players on the field.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    Zobrist is a decent hitter but he ain't in Longoria's league.  I honestly do not believe this is even a matter of opinion.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]Zobrist is a decent hitter but he ain't in Longoria's league.  I honestly do not believe this is even a matter of opinion.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    A simple check of this year's statistics would prove you wrong.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpikeCunn5. Show SpikeCunn5's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]How can Francona continue to let Longoria beat him? There was absolutely no reason to pitch to him and let him; does Francona think Zobrist is even in the same league as Longoria? He should be walked intentionally every possible AB.  Let Francona get into the Rays heads the way Maddon gets into some of our guys. Simply pathetic.  OK - I am ready for the Francona sympathizers now - let's hear the defense........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Zobrist 144 games 148 hits 45 doubles 6 triples 15 home runs 71 walks and 116 strikeouts vs

    Longoria 120 games 106 hits 25 doubles 1 triple 27 homeruns 66 walks and 88 strikeouts.

    Zobrist Hits = 148/144 = 1.02 per game

    Doubles  = 45 /144 = .313 per game

    Triples = 6 / 144 = .042 per game

    Home runs = 15 / 144 = .104 per game

    Walks = 71 / 144 = .493 per game

    Strike outs = 116 / 144 = .805 per game

    Longoria Hits = 106 / 120 = .883 per game

    Doubles = 25 / 120 = .208 per game

    Triples = 1 / 120 = .008 per game

    Home runs = 27 / 120 = .225 per game

    Walks = 66 / 120 = .55 per game

    Strike outs = 88 / 120 = .733 per game

    After looking at this Longoria is has a better chance of a homerun or a walk but Zobrist has a better chance at a double, triple, or a strike out. I still think it is better to attack Longoria


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    You could look at stats all you want.  Longoria still has a far greater POTENTIAL to drive in a run than Zobrist does. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to More hard evidence for the case against Francona : Zobrist 144 games 148 hits 45 doubles 6 triples 15 home runs 71 walks and 116 strikeouts vs Longoria 120 games 106 hits 25 doubles 1 triple 27 homeruns 66 walks and 88 strikeouts. Zobrist Hits = 148/144 = 1.02 per game Doubles   = 45 /144 = .313 per game Triples = 6 / 144 = .042 per game Home runs = 15 / 144 = .104 per game Walks = 71 / 144 = .493 per game Strike outs = 116 / 144 = .805 per game Longoria Hits = 106 / 120 = .883 per game Doubles = 25 / 120 = .208 per game Triples = 1 / 120 = .008 per game Home runs = 27 / 120 = .225 per game Walks = 66 / 120 = .55 per game Strike outs = 88 / 120 = .733 per game After looking at this Longoria is has a better chance of a homerun or a walk but Zobrist has a better chance at a double, triple, or a strike out. I still think it is better to attack Longoria
    Posted by SpikeCunn5[/QUOTE]

    talk about a massive under-statement

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]You could look at stats all you want.  Longoria still has a far greater POTENTIAL to drive in a run than Zobrist does. 
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    OK, sorry, didn't mean to confuse you with the facts.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wideright. Show wideright's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    No excuse for the Red Sox batting woes, but how would Tampa be doing if they had as many pitchers injured as the Sox. Beckett, Bedard, Bucholz. Lester missed time. Even Dice K who I pretty sure would have decent 5 starter numbers. Pretty tough to deal with that.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona : A simple check of this year's statistics would prove you wrong.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE] Yes. Consider the players are close IF you look at OPS, Zobrist .811 and Longoria .828.

    But let's look at Evan with two men on versus the bases loaded for Ben.

    Longoria two on : .926

    Zobrist base loaded: 1.583


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    Wait a sec, Mitch ... I'm a little slow this morning (not enough coffee yet).

    When Longoria came up, there were runners at FIRST and third and two out. So you're saying they should have walked Longoria, thus moving ANOTHER runner into scoring position, to face Zobrist??
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona

    In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More hard evidence for the case against Francona : OK, sorry, didn't mean to confuse you with the facts.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Nice try.  The point is that you are hung up on CERTAIN stats comparing Zobrist to Longoria.

    If you watch the guys play you should be able to judge who is the more dangerous hitter.

    Further, one key stat is HR's and again, Zobrist ain't in Longoria's league.
     
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