In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

I'm really on the fence with Hamilton, hes a great ballplayer but may not have enough initial support for his addiction if he leaves Texas.  This could make it very difficult for Josh to get acclimated.  The Sox need to play it smart in my opinion by attempting to trade for the same type of player, but a bit more stable like Ryan Braun.

But trading for Braun would cost several top prospects AND a ton of money, whereas Hamilton would only cost the huge money.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

You are correct ... in July FanGraphs columnist Dave Cameron ranked Ryan Braun with the sixth-highest trade value in baseball:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-10-6/

IF the Red sox want Ortiz back, the qualifying offer will be somewhere around $16 mil.  At his age and coming of an Achilles injury that has cost him more than a third of the season, it seems unlikely any other team would offer him a multi year deal or more than $16 mil.  So unless he decides to cut off his nose to spite his face by taking less money to leave Boston, IF the Red Sox want him back they will have to pay him $16 mil or take a chance and let him test the market..

 

But it is also hard top see the 2013 Red Sox being more than an 80-85 win team without a major infusion of talent.  More likely, it may take a year or more for kids to develop.  Free agents could result in marginal talent tying up big bucks or talent could be swapped for talent like Lester and Ellsbury.  If management thinks that the red Sox really project to 80-85 wins, would it really make sense to tied up $16 mil in a DH?

 

Of course, letting Ortiz walk would be very unpopular.   But never underestimate this ownership’s ability to be tone deaf to the fans.

In response to lives2ski's comment:

I seriously doubt anyone will offer him $16M. They didn't last year, so why now?

The Sox should offer him $12.5M or whatever the minimum is to get a comp pick if he turns it down and signs elsewhere.

I just can't see Leyland, Scocia, Hamilton (definetely not Hamilton) Lee, or Felix Hernandez willing to go walking into this circus...

 

See, this is the point so many have tried to make. If there's another city/team willing to pay the Hamitons and Hernandez's of the world (and there WILL BE).... For a few years, till the bad taste is gone, Boston just may be waaaaaay down on the list of choices ......

 

Manager:  Dave Martinez

CF: Ellsbury (high possibility Ells being dealt around the break and JBJ callup)

RF: Nick Swisher (he's going to be loved in Boston)

LF: Cody Ross (gets 2 + 3rd yr option extention)

4th & 5th OFs: Sweeney and Sands

1B: Loney gets 1 yr contract (he's been good at 1B)

2B: Pedey

3B: WMB

C: Salty and Lava

DH: Ortiz (2 + 3rd yr option)

SS: Ivan DJ

UTIL: Ciriaco

SP:

Lester

Bucholz

Dan Haren

Doubront

Lackey

BP:

Morales, Taz, Miller, Wilson, Breslow, Carpenter, Bailey

Lineup:

Ells CF

Pedey 2B

Swisher RF

Ortiz DH

WMB 3B

Ross LF

Loney 1B

Salty C

Ivan DJ SS

 

 

 

CF: Ellsbury (high possibility Ells being dealt around the break and JBJ callup)

 

Trading him in July loses the value of the comp draft pick to the team that gets him. If we trade jacoby, it should be before the season begins, so we can get maximim return.

Wait, I can't belive Moon and Notin missed this one!

Sloman actually proposed the Sox deal Middlebrooks for Miguel Carera!!!!!

I realize he wants to trade Middlebrooks for anyone, which is mostly insane,but Detroit is going to give up THE BEST HITTER IN MLB who is only 29 years old, for a rookie who played 75 games? WOW! I want what he's smoking!

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I did not say I thought anyone would actually offer him either $16 mil for one year or a multi year deal.  But I think $16 mil will be the minimum qualifying offer to get the comp pick.  I'm not sure spending $16 mil on a DH unless significant improvements are made to the team as a whole makes any sense.  And if he felt disrespected at $14 mil, imagine how he will feel at $11 - $12 on a another one year contract 

In response to lives2ski's comment:

The required qualifying offer is expected to be in the range of $13.3 million to $13.4 million, according to this August tweet from ESPN's Buster Olney:

https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/230727361673428992

I did not say I thought anyone would actually offer him either $16 mil for one year or a multi year deal. But I think $16 mil will be the minimum qualifying offer to get the comp pick. I'm not sure spending $16 mil on a DH unless significant improvements are made to the team as a whole makes any sense. And if he felt disrespected at $14 mil, imagine how he will feel at $11 - $12 on a another one year contract .

I'd offer him the minimum amount need to make it a "qualifying offer". That is supposed to be about $12-13.

He may feel disrespected, and if he refuses  and signs elsewhere, we get a nice draft pick and perhaps use the money elsewhere. I'm pretty sure his agent will tell him he won't get more anywhere else. Perhaps he will agree to a two year deal, but that would be for less than $12M per year for sure.

I want Papi to retire in Boston. He is the legend. I'd be willing to pay a little more than the minimum, if that's what it takes to make it happen. I realize from a business sense, we should let him walk, since we will not be a serious WS contender in 2013, but this is Papi we are talking about. I'm not sure how many fans come to see Papi play, but if he walks, it might cause a few not to come or watch on TV next year.

In response to rightymclefty's comment:

If you're Detroit, would you rather have Josh Hamilton & Will Middlebrooks or Miguel Cabrera and $3M?  Despite Hill's list, there aren't a ton of teams who can afford a $22M 1B, and even fewer who can give you a young, cheap, potential all-star 3B in return.

I agree with you Cabrera may be the best hitter in baseball, but he's also the worst 3B defensively by a mile.  On net, fangraphs values 3Bs David Wright and Chase Headley above Cabrera.

I'm not trying to get rid of Middlebrooks, but this is deja-vu for me from last off-season.  We can only trade pieces of value - last year it was Jacoby Ellsbury, and nobody wanted to trade him because he was a stud superstar who was only going to build on his near-MVP season.  Well, he hasn't even sniffed the power from a year ago, and we missed the opportunity for real return.  You've got to give something to get something; it doesn't help to keep thinking we can trade Lackey for Matt Cain.  If you want to fix this team, you have to at least entertain the thought of parting with pieces you don't want to.

 

Chris Nelson, Trevor Plouffs, Wilkson Betemit, Jordan Pacheco and Chris Joihnson are worse fielding 3Bmen than Miggy, according to UZR/150. A few others are pretty close.

Id rather keep Middlebrooks. Hes better defensivly and will probably hit around .280-.300 with 25HR and under team control for 5-6 more years...Ill take that...

In response to southpaw777's comment:

I'd rather keep Middlebrooks too, but Miggy is the closest thing to what Manny was, offensively, today. Between Aviles, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, Cecchini, Gomez, Shaw, & Valancia, I think the 3B job could be filled pretty well both short-term and long-term.

 

I do not think Miggy will be traded.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Chris Johnson I'll give you, but the rest of the list are part-time 3B, or guys who have already lost their jobs.  Detroit can't be happy with their defense going into 2013, but if they did go after Hamilton, it might make more sense for them to trade Fielder and move Cabrera back to 1B.  I wouldn't trade Middlebrooks for Fielder straight up.

I would trade Middlebrooks to AZ for Paul Goldschmidt (I would even throw in another top ten org prospect) or to Chicago for Anthony Rizzo.  Primarily because I have a lot of confidence in Bogaerts, and think that 3B is the best position for him, and because these are cheap, young, guys, poised to be the next superstar slugging 1Bs. 

I think Middlebrooks could be terrific, but we need more patience from this lineup.  Our lineups in the past were not just talented hitters - they could work the count, which means we would get on base, and we could get tough starters in trouble, and out early.  Even before the trade, this lineup had very little success against quality pitching, though they could put up crooked numbers against mediocre pitching.

Here goes Sloman, wanting to trade Middlebrooks .

He says he doesn't want to trade him, only he mentions trading him in every post he makes.

He wants to trade a potential star 3rd baseman for a 1st baseman. Wow!

1st basemen are a dime a dozen. 3rd base? There's a reason why there are less 3rd basemen in the Hall of Fame, than any other position. GOOD ONES ARE HARD TO FIND!

Plus, he wants to throw in a top prospect for Paul Goldschmidt, who is 2 years older than Will, and has roughly the same stats as Will.

I love Anthony Rizzo. I wish the Sox had never traded him for Sourpuss Gonzo. I still wouldn't trade him for Middlebrooks.

Sure glad Sloman isn't running this team!

In response to seannybboi's comment:
[QUOTE]

Manager:  Dave Martinez

CF: Ellsbury (high possibility Ells being dealt around the break and JBJ callup)

RF: Nick Swisher (he's going to be loved in Boston)

LF: Cody Ross (gets 2 + 3rd yr option extention)

4th & 5th OFs: Sweeney and Sands

1B: Loney gets 1 yr contract (he's been good at 1B)

2B: Pedey

3B: WMB

C: Salty and Lava

DH: Ortiz (2 + 3rd yr option)

SS: Ivan DJ

UTIL: Ciriaco

SP:

Lester

Bucholz

Dan Haren

Doubront

Lackey

BP:

Morales, Taz, Miller, Wilson, Breslow, Carpenter, Bailey

Lineup:

Ells CF

Pedey 2B

Swisher RF

Ortiz DH

WMB 3B

Ross LF

Loney 1B

Salty C

Ivan DJ SS

   Seanny, you were doing quite well until you made the unforgivable blunder of penciling James Loneybaloney for first base and Ivan De Jejerkoff for shortstop.  Both were Dodger rejects and both are rotten ballplayers.  Ivan Jr. couldn't made the Bums for three seasons and every time he was called up he failed miserably.  He also is a poor fit for Boston because he has rabbit ears and has a tendency to loaf.  As for Loney, he has no power, no speed, totally lacking in charisma and leadership ability and and can no longer hit for a decent average.  Those two bums have to be the first ones to go this off season---and no more signing or trading for Dodger players.  They overhype their prospects and very few of them wind up being anything more than a stumbling bum.  New first baseman and shortstop for absolute certainty.

BTW, I live in the Los Angeles area and I've seen these guys enough on TV to have made me sick.  I don't want to watch these two cruds on my conputer screeen wearing the uniform of the team I  root for. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to seannybboi's comment:
[QUOTE]

Manager:  Dave Martinez

CF: Ellsbury (high possibility Ells being dealt around the break and JBJ callup)

RF: Nick Swisher (he's going to be loved in Boston)

LF: Cody Ross (gets 2 + 3rd yr option extention)

4th & 5th OFs: Sweeney and Sands

1B: Loney gets 1 yr contract (he's been good at 1B)

2B: Pedey

3B: WMB

C: Salty and Lava

DH: Ortiz (2 + 3rd yr option)

SS: Ivan DJ

UTIL: Ciriaco

SP:

Lester

Bucholz

Dan Haren

Doubront

Lackey

BP:

Morales, Taz, Miller, Wilson, Breslow, Carpenter, Bailey

Lineup:

Ells CF

Pedey 2B

Swisher RF

Ortiz DH

WMB 3B

Ross LF

Loney 1B

Salty C

Ivan DJ SS

   Seanny, you were doing quite well until you made the unforgivable blunder of penciling James Loneybaloney for first base and Ivan De Jejerkoff for shortstop.  Both were Dodger rejects and both are rotten ballplayers.  Ivan Jr. couldn't made the Bums for three seasons and every time he was called up he failed miserably.  He also is a poor fit for Boston because he has rabbit ears and has a tendency to loaf.  As for Loney, he has no power, no speed, totally lacking in charisma and leadership ability and and can no longer hit for a decent average.  Those two bums have to be the first ones to go this off season---and no more signing or trading for Dodger players.  They overhype their prospects and very few of them wind up being anything more than a stumbling bum.  New first baseman and shortstop for absolute certainty.

BTW, I live in the Los Angeles area and I've seen these guys enough on TV to have made me sick.  I don't want to watch these two cruds on my conputer screeen wearing the uniform of the team I  root for. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to seannybboi's comment:
[QUOTE]

Manager:  Dave Martinez

CF: Ellsbury (high possibility Ells being dealt around the break and JBJ callup)

RF: Nick Swisher (he's going to be loved in Boston)

LF: Cody Ross (gets 2 + 3rd yr option extention)

4th & 5th OFs: Sweeney and Sands

1B: Loney gets 1 yr contract (he's been good at 1B)

2B: Pedey

3B: WMB

C: Salty and Lava

DH: Ortiz (2 + 3rd yr option)

SS: Ivan DJ

UTIL: Ciriaco

SP:

Lester

Bucholz

Dan Haren

Doubront

Lackey

BP:

Morales, Taz, Miller, Wilson, Breslow, Carpenter, Bailey

Lineup:

Ells CF

Pedey 2B

Swisher RF

Ortiz DH

WMB 3B

Ross LF

Loney 1B

Salty C

Ivan DJ SS

   Seanny, you were doing quite well until you made the unforgivable blunder of penciling James Loneybaloney for first base and Ivan De Jejerkoff for shortstop.  Both were Dodger rejects and both are rotten ballplayers.  Ivan Jr. couldn't made the Bums for three seasons and every time he was called up he failed miserably.  He also is a poor fit for Boston because he has rabbit ears and has a tendency to loaf.  As for Loney, he has no power, no speed, totally lacking in charisma and leadership ability and and can no longer hit for a decent average.  Those two bums have to be the first ones to go this off season---and no more signing or trading for Dodger players.  They overhype their prospects and very few of them wind up being anything more than a stumbling bum.  New first baseman and shortstop for absolute certainty.

BTW, I live in the Los Angeles area and I've seen these guys enough on TV to have made me sick.  I don't want to watch these two cruds on my conputer screeen wearing the uniform of the team I  root for. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to seabeachfred's comment:

How do you delete two of these posts.  How the h@ll did it post three times?

In response to moonslav59's comment:

mmon,

You and hill are correct, Braun has one of highest trade values and would us a cost a bundle but probably still not as much as Hamilton.  Ryan also brings less baggage and has been one of the most durable/dependable players since joining the league.  I'm not saying we could pry him away or at what cost, but I at the very least feel the Brewers out. 

I just don't think hamiltons career will go "long term" without injuries, or falling back on old habits. 

 

In response to rightymclefty's comment:

Thanks Paul Ryan, but your post is inaccurate once again.  Goldschmidt is one year and a day older than Middlebrooks, and while they have equal power potential IMO, Goldschmidt has far better plate discipline, an obvious weakness for this team.  And a top ten org prospect means Henry Owens or Blake Swihart - is that really going to stop you in your tracks?

OK, so Middlebrooks is untouchable because he plays 3B.  Let's fast-forward to mid 2013 and say Iglesias is doing a solid job as our starting SS, and Middlebrooks is at third, but Bogaerts is tearing the cover off the ball at AAA.  Where do you put him?  LF?  1B?  If your argument is that 3B is more valuable than these 'dime a dozen' positions, then aren't you wasting talent by putting a capable 3B in one of them?  Who plays 1B in the meantime?  Mike Napoli?  Jerry Sands?  Mauro Gomez?

You started another thread about dealing for Tulowitzki - Middlebrooks is untouchable, so tell me exactly who you would offer for Tulo.  Are you going to be specific, or are you going to wait for somebody else to come up with an idea, so you can crawl out of your hole and berate how stupid it is?

Not worreid. Inglesias will never hit. Next point!

I guess in your Sloman mind, Will Middlebrooks is the ONLY guy to include in any proposed trade. I think Moon and Notin covered the Tulo rade subject very well, and I agree with their lists. I only chime in if I think an idea is moronic,. like constantly wanting to trade Middlebrooks, at age 23, for your percieved lack of plate discipline, despite all that he brings to the table.Not the least of which, is his instant adaptability to playing in Boston.

So, who on this team except Ortiz grinds out at bats? Pedroia is second among regulars at .349, which isn't exactly world beating.

As for Tulo, Moon and Notin covered the trade possibilities very well. I'll chime in when I see something I disagree with, and I fully agree with their prosposals.

!B? Tons of people to think about, without trading our best home grown position player since Pedroia,