Move Crawford up and Drew down?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Maybe not right away, but probably soon.  Crawford is, I think most of us agree, almost impossible to fit into the Sox lineup.  If his hitting is indeed picking up--and it certainly has been during the month of May--he should be moved up in the lineup. 

    The two most logical places for CC are leadoff and #2, but Ellsbury and Pedroia pretty much have those nailed down, plus Francona won't want to lead off with three lefties--Ellsbury, CC, and AGon.  I could see some logic in letting CC lead off, but Ellsbury has done pretty well there this year and leadoff might put too much pressure on CC.

    But 6th, batting right after Ortiz, could make a lot of sense.  The #6 slot is good for rbi guys, and Crawford has done that pretty well in the clutch, whereas as J.D. Drew is pretty close to the worst rbi guy on the team.  In four prior seasons with the Sox, during which his OPS was around or over .900, he never got more than 68 rbi's.  This year his hitting and especially rbi's make the previous four years look like the golden age of J.D. production, at least in Boston.  Plus more and more he gets to rest against lefties, plus periodically he gets vertigo or pulls a muscle or something.  Bat him 8th or 9th. 

    That would put Lowrie 7th, which would be a demotion, but not a big one.  Besides, he has to be pretty happy simply starting everyday at SS.  Plus I think Crawford is probably better against righties than Lowrie. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    I hate to have papi in front of CC.  I can't think of a better way to negate CC's speed than to put papi on the base in front of them.  I'd rather hit cc IN FRONT of Papi, of let lowrie hit in between.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    That is a good point about Papi hurting CC's speed but the way the center of the line-up is going right now, I don't think it makes much sense to mess with it.

    During inter-league road games maybe they can get CC comfortable in the 5 spot and then when it is back to facing A.L. teams, they can put Papi at 6, which because of the speed issue, make more sense.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    I wouldn't tinker with it very much. As much as it hurts to be low in the order, he's coming up after the meat of much of the lineup, and therefore getting good RBI opertonities, while still being in a position to have his speed affect the game, Salty's job of scoring runs is certainly easier the Crawford in front of him.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Personally I think where a hitter hits has less effect on how he hits than people think.  I understand that sometimes hitting in front of a great hitter can get you more fastballs etc...and I do agree with that but in terms of hitters overall slumping, hitting streaks etc etc etc.

    What I'm trying to say here is this, Crawford should be moved up in the lineup not necessarily to reward his hitting of lately...but to take advantage of it.  for millions and millions of dollars a year you shouldn't complain about where you hit.  I had no problem moving him to the 7th, 8th spots I don't care how much money he is getting paid I'm not going to bat a guy who is hitting .100 2nd or third.   However, now is the time to move Crawford up, for one reason or the other. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    I've heard lots of former players who now are commentators discussing Crawford's struggles and I think all of them have said that where you hit in the line-up does matter to a players comfort level. 

    I agree that Crawford shouldn't continue hitting at the bottom of the line-up all year but they also can't move him just for the sake of moving him.  The heart of the order is clicking right now, so maybe for the time being Crawford stays in the 6-7 spot. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    If Crawford is in fact out of his terrible slump he likely moves up in the line-up. Now today probably doesn't mean too much, except Cleveland started a guy who shouldn't have been taken off the DL yet.

    That said while Carl is hot and Drew not, their OBP for May is about the same. So switching the two has pros and cons. Personally I like Lowrie sandwiched somewhere between Ortiz, Drew and Crawford because he is so good versus LH pitching that in the later innings it does mess with the opposing managers pitching changes.

    I think that once you get past the first 5 spots in a batting order you construct that order to avoid creating easy situational pitching changes for your opponent and put guys in order of their probabilty to not make outs (OBP) tie goes to the SLG ie OPS. 

    Personally I would do something like this versus RH starters:

    Ellsbury
    Pedroria
    Gonzalez
    Youk
    Ortiz
    Lowrie
    Crawford
    Drew
    Salty/Tek

    Versus LH
    Ellsbury
    Pedroia
    Gonzalez
    Youk
    Ortiz
    Lowrie
    Cameron
    Crawford
    Salty/Tek

    While the salary is counter intiuative to where he is the line-up, that toothpaste is out of the tube and what "looks" worse. Playing your $142M OF in bottom third of your order and winning or losing with him in the top 5 spots in the order? Job security alone suggests that both Epstein and Francona opt for the former rather than the later.



     
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    CC should be second...makes no sense to NOT pair Ells and Craw one-two...Pedey is better suited these days 5-6 as he swings for the fences every at bat
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Crawford has been batting 8th for well over a month now.  He batted 6th today because Youk and Drew were both out. 

    Drew will apparently be out for a week or more, but Youk will play tomorrow night at Detroit, so now is the time to make a move. 

    Let me say categorically that Drew is absolutely not the key to the "middle of the order" as some seem to think.  He has 10 rbi's to Crawford's 16--case closed.  And don't tell me Crawford has more rbi's because he has more AB's, because that's part of my point--you can't depend on Drew. 

    You can maybe make a case that Lowrie should bat 6th and Crawford 7th.  I guess it boils down to who will better support Ortiz at #5.  Lowrie has a much better OPS than Crawford, but it is steadily eroding. 

    As for the previous batter slowing Crawford down on the basepaths, Ellsbury has normally followed the catcher--Tek or Salty--for at least a month, but he is still tied for the AL lead in SBs.  Tek and AGon are both slower on the basepaths than Ortiz, and Lowrie isn't much quicker.  I'm not sure about Salty. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]CC should be second...makes no sense to NOT pair Ells and Craw one-two...Pedey is better suited these days 5-6 as he swings for the fences every at bat
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]Tired argument. But here we go...

    Crawford doesn't walk and is poorly suited for hit and run. This is scary and frankly fuels one of BDCs pet arguments, which is Theo's FA signing judgment but the career stats show that Pedroia was  the better offensive player.
     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]CC should be second...makes no sense to NOT pair Ells and Craw one-two...Pedey is better suited these days 5-6 as he swings for the fences every at bat
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Not true.  Going LH-LH-LH at the top of the line-up is a sensible reason to not hit CC 2. 


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down? : Tired argument. But here we go... Crawford doesn't walk and is poorly suited for hit and run. This is scary and frankly fuels one of BDCs pet arguments, which is Theo's FA signing judgment but the career stats show that Pedroia was  the better offensive player.  
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Fivekatz, where would you bat CC right now, especially with Drew missing a few games?  And why? 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Ellsbury v. LHP  BA .240  OBP .309  OPS .669  K:BB  4 to 1

    Crawford should stay in the 8th spot until he starts hitting better v. RHP. When CC starts hitting RHP, trending closer to his career average, he should leadoff v. RHP.

    v. most RHP starters

    1. L Crawford
    2. R Pedroia (MVP should not be moved because of a mini-slump with high OBP)
    3. L AGon (Never, ever put Crawford in as the 3 hitter)
    4. R Youk
    5. L Ortiz
    6. L Drew (Lowrie pinch hit)
    7. R Lowrie (Scutaro when he returns from DL)
    8. L Salty (Cameron pinch hit)
    9. L Ellsbury

    v. most LHP starters

    1. L Ellsbury
    2. R Pedroia (MVP should not be moved because of a mini-slump with high OBP)
    3. L AGon (Never, ever put Crawford in as the 3 hitter)
    4. R Youk
    5. L Ortiz
    6. R Lowrie
    7. R Cameron (despite age decline, career numbers and 2 HR in one game v LHP)
    8. L Crawford
    9. R Salty or R Varitek  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]Crawford has been batting 8th for well over a month now.  He batted 6th today because Youk and Drew were both out.  Drew will apparently be out for a week or more, but Youk will play tomorrow night at Detroit, so now is the time to make a move.  Let me say categorically that Drew is absolutely not the key to the "middle of the order" as some seem to think.  He has 10 rbi's to Crawford's 16--case closed.  And don't tell me Crawford has more rbi's because he has more AB's, because that's part of my point--you can't depend on Drew.  You can maybe make a case that Lowrie should bat 6th and Crawford 7th.  I guess it boils down to who will better support Ortiz at #5.  Lowrie has a much better OPS than Crawford, but it is steadily eroding.  As for the previous batter slowing Crawford down on the basepaths, Ellsbury has normally followed the catcher--Tek or Salty--for at least a month, but he is still tied for the AL lead in SBs.  Tek and AGon are both slower on the basepaths than Ortiz, and Lowrie isn't much quicker.  I'm not sure about Salty. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    With Jake leading off the game, and subsequaint innings, as well as the poor OBP of the catchers, nobody is in front of him the vast majority of the time.  Papi has a .400 obp, so it isn't the same...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down? : Fivekatz, where would you bat CC right now, especially with Drew missing a few games?  And why? 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]7th. Lowrie is great bait between Ortiz and Crawford and a lot of managers have and will bring in a LH reliever to face Ortiz and LH to follow and allow Lowrie to go to his strong side. Crawford is historically very vulnerable to LH pitching so having Lowrie as a break and Cameron behind him who also historically hits LH well makes situational managing late very tough.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down? : With Jake leading off the game, and subsequaint innings, as well as the poor OBP of the catchers, nobody is in front of him the vast majority of the time.  Papi has a .400 obp, so it isn't the same...
    Posted by adam4522[/QUOTE]

    Good point. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Fivekatz, that makes sense--Lowrie 6th and Crawford 7th.

    I'm betting that's what Francona does tomorrow night. 

    As for Drew's return to the lineup, I'm thinking he just might be 8th or even 9th.  In the movie, Twelve O'Clock High, they designated one plane crew as the "leper colony," which is where the commander, played by Gregory Peck, sent all the slackers.  That crew ended up being his best.  For the Sox, the leper colony might be the 7th-9th hitters, and lately they have been pretty effective.  Didn't the 2004 Sox have Mueller, hitting over .300, batting 9th?   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    think outside the daMnn managing for dummies mode

    ells
    cc
    agon
    youk
    papi
    pedey
    drew
    lowrie/scutaro
    salty/tek

    of course our lame manager wont ever abandon his precious l-r scheme until he runs out of righties
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    The L-R bean counter move is one of the tried and true results producer. The Red Sox, even last year, have always been an elite MLB offensive season long producing team. It's all about the law of averages, and a starting pitcher and pen moves that keep having to see L and then R are more likely to make a mistake.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Without intending to drag out the endless Drew argument....I would say he is the sort of person with a (relatively) low ego (like Wakefield) that will perform to or close to their best regardless of the (swirling, biased mania) around them.  At a higher talent level, Manny Ramirez also seemed to be above the fray.

    ...and while I believe Drew's been overpaid, review his WAR vs salary value before going all TIS ("That Idiot Softlaw") on him.

    My favourite current Sox players? By "attitude" or "approach" to baseball?  Pedroia & Youkilis by far.....but a team of only guys like that would abjectly fail.  25 Chris Chambliss'?  25 Tony Perez'?  25 Joe Rudis?  They would fail too.

    If only JD Drew would spit in TIS's face, even once....I can only live in hope.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Today Crawford is betting 6th, but Lowrie is getting a day off.  If Crawford continues to hit, I think he will keep the 6 slot, but do like fivekatz's logic on Lowrie 6 and Crawford 7.  I do seem to remember that Jason Bay, in his one full season with the Sox, batted 7th many times. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    Up to this point I have liked CC batting eigth and the cather position batting ninth b/c I thought when Crawford gets on base, his baserunning presence could be helping our catchers.  Plus, I don't see how he could really help in the top of the order with Jackie Ellsbury and Pedrioa in the best spots for them. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    I now regret saying that Drew should be moved lower in the lineup.  If this keeps up--two back to back breakouts on offense on the road with Drew not playing--he should be kept out of the lineup.  Reddick just struck out against a lefty, but got a big single in a stunning 2d inning against a very good Tigers starter.  Oh, and Crawford is 2 for 2 batting sixth with two rbi's and a run scored. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

    In Response to Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?:
    [QUOTE]Up to this point I have liked CC batting eigth and the cather position batting ninth b/c I thought when Crawford gets on base, his baserunning presence could be helping our catchers.  Plus, I don't see how he could really help in the top of the order with Jackie Ellsbury and Pedrioa in the best spots for them. 
    Posted by lightningbrain[/QUOTE]
    I agree. I was thinking of the same thing. It keeps the speed close, but not back-to-back. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Move Crawford up and Drew down?

     I don't care where Crawford hits in the order, although when a guy has a hot-bat you want to get him to the plate as often as possible. That said, I wouldn't mind Drew riding the pine for as long as possible. Not only can he not hit,  his vaunted defense as has been less than impressive recently. I remember 2 gaffes in the recent Tiger series: one where Cabrera (hardly the fastest of runners!) went from 1st to 3rd on a sharp liner to right and Drew fell asleep on the play, the other a sliding attempt to catch a line drive that hit him in the wrist above his glove. Let the best players on the field regardless of what you're paying them.
     
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