Murderer's Row?
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Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:29 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
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The 1927 Yankees are the gold standard of offense in MLB. The 1978 Red Sox are still the greatest offensive team in Red Sox history. I don't think I've seen another Red Sox team with the offensive capability of this one though, since 1978. This team is an offensive machine. And the pitching is much better than the 1978 team which had Eckersley, Stanley, Tiant, Lee, Campbell and not much else. We also didn't have any speed in '78. Overall I think this year's team might be the best Red Sox team in my lifetime. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:43 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
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The Red Sox have feasted on the weaker pitching of the AL East ... here are the Red Sox OPS against American League opponents so far this season:
BAL .781
NYY .854
TAM .788
TOR .856 (before today's blowout)
CHW .742
CLE .703
DET .739
MIN .785
LAA .742
OAK .816
SEA .670
TEX .609
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=BOS&year=2011
The Red Sox have an impressive lineup the benefits from facing softer pitching in the division. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:47 PM EDT
- GL'SFRANK
- Posts: 61
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Good evening to my good friend Carnie. Thanks for bringing back great memories of 1978.1978 Boston Red Sox
Your Red Sox led my Yankees by 14½ games in July but my Yankees pulled even Sept. 10 with a four-game sweep known as the Boston Massacre. The teams played evenly over the last three weeks and met for a one-game playoff in Boston. Bucky Dent's three-run homer in the seventh powered the Yankees past the Sox to win 5-4.
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Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:47 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
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I'm surprised the OPS vs the White Sox is so high. I think the next time we play Texas the numbers against them will improve. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:51 PM EDT
- Boomerangsdotcom
- Posts: 10147
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In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:The Red Sox have feasted on the weaker pitching of the AL East ... here are the Red Sox OPS against American League opponents so far this season: BAL .781 NYY .854 TAM .788 TOR .856 (before today's blowout) CHW .742 CLE .703 DET .739 MIN .785 LAA .742 OAK .816 SEA .670 TEX .609 http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=BOS&year=2011 The Red Sox have an impressive lineup the benefits from facing softer pitching in the division.
Posted by hill55
Nonetheless, the AL East keeps winning in the playoffs, with the recent exception of Texas and the Angels once in a while. The better teams are in the AL East, the strongest division in baseball. In my humble opinion! -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:53 PM EDT
- Boomerangsdotcom
- Posts: 10147
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In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:Good evening to my good friend Carnie. Thanks for bringing back great memories of 1978. 1978 Boston Red Sox Your Red Sox led my Yankees by 14½ games in July but my Yankees pulled even Sept. 10 with a four-game sweep known as the Boston Massacre. The teams played evenly over the last three weeks and met for a one-game playoff in Boston. Bucky Dent's three-run homer in the seventh powered the Yankees past the Sox to win 5-4.
Posted by GL'SFRANK
Had to bring that up didn't you!
BTW, how are the Yanks working out for you right now! They look like tired old donkeys to me. On the downward plane!
OK, my trash talking is done! Someone might think I'm Wade and Lebron talking about Nowitski! -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 7:54 PM EDT
- fancy-shamanski
- Posts: 763
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The '03 '04 teams could score some runs! -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:01 PM EDT
- DaffyDan
- Posts: 1181
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
The 1950 Red Sox were by far the best offensive team in the history of the franchise scoring 1027 runs in 154 games.03 and 04 are second and third with 961 and 954 in 162 games.1978 is 31'st. I thought it would be higher too.-Daf. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:01 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
- Last: 10/28/2011
In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:The Red Sox have feasted on the weaker pitching of the AL East ... here are the Red Sox OPS against American League opponents so far this season: BAL .781 NYY .854 TAM .788 TOR .856 (before today's blowout) CHW .742 CLE .703 DET .739 MIN .785 LAA .742 OAK .816 SEA .670 TEX .609 http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=BOS&year=2011 The Red Sox have an impressive lineup the benefits from facing softer pitching in the division.
Posted by hill55
What those numbers don't expose is the infrequency & lack of familiarity from the unbalanced schedule.
Teams that face the same pitcher more often are going to have more success. Exceptions are the league's elite arms. The A's just found this out.
Furthermore, the line-ups in the A.L. East are quite potent. Which means A.L. East pitching is exposed to them far more often.
An interesting study might be gauging this "weak"A.L. East pitching against teams outside their division, both this year and over the last 5 years. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:13 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
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In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:Good evening to my good friend Carnie. Thanks for bringing back great memories of 1978. 1978 Boston Red Sox Your Red Sox led my Yankees by 14½ games in July but my Yankees pulled even Sept. 10 with a four-game sweep known as the Boston Massacre. The teams played evenly over the last three weeks and met for a one-game playoff in Boston. Bucky Dent's three-run homer in the seventh powered the Yankees past the Sox to win 5-4.Yeah, 1978 turned out to be a tough year to be a Sox fan. The downfall of that team was the pitching. Eckersley and Tiant were great starters, as was Spaceman before Nettles tore his shoulder out of its' socket. Stanley and Campbell in the bullpen were good too. The Sox really didn't have anything on the mound beyond those guys though. The offense though, was astounding. Goose Gossage vs. Yaz for all the marbles was a matchup for the ages. Your team came out on top that time.
Posted by GL'SFRANK -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:16 PM EDT
- Boomerangsdotcom
- Posts: 10147
- First: 11/17/2008
- Last: 4/20/2013
Loved the 78 Sox but think this team puts up even better numbers. Rice was huge on that team but we have 2 guys who might well have a better OPS at the end of the year ( Gonzalez and Ortiz ). We have more team speed and a much higher OBP. They probably have a few more HR when we are through. I bet we score about as many runs and maybe more. The train is rolling!
In the year of the pitcher no less.
It seems like we had a year around 2003 or 2004 which scored a bunch of runs also, in the Ortiz / Manny era. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:20 PM EDT
- Boomerangsdotcom
- Posts: 10147
- First: 11/17/2008
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Interesting stat. Who led the AL in runs scored in 2008 and 2009?
The Laser show himself! -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:21 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
- First: 5/26/2008
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I don't know if the 7, 8 & 9 spots can match up with Boomer, Dewey and Hobson. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:22 PM EDT
- DaffyDan
- Posts: 1181
- First: 5/30/2008
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And the 1931 Yankees are the "best" offensive for their franchise. Scoring 1067 runs in 155 games.1927 is 6th, with 975 in 155. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:24 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
- First: 5/26/2008
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It's interesting we're having this discussion after so many were writing this team off in April though, isn't it? -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:29 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:In Response to Re: Murderer's Row? : What those numbers don't expose is the infrequency & lack of familiarity from the unbalanced schedule. Teams that face the same pitcher more often are going to have more success. Exceptions are the league's elite arms. The A's just found this out. Furthermore, the line-ups in the A.L. East are quite potent. Which means A.L. East pitching is exposed to them far more often. An interesting study might be gauging this " weak" A.L. East pitching against teams outside their division, both this year and over the last 5 years.
Posted by harness
The unbalanced schedule so far this season has resulted the Red Sox playing 23 games against AL East opponents and 19 games each against AL Central and AL West opponents. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:32 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:In Response to Re: Murderer's Row? : Nonetheless, the AL East keeps winning in the playoffs, with the recent exception of Texas and the Angels once in a while. The better teams are in the AL East, the strongest division in baseball. In my humble opinion!
Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
The AL East had a recent history of postseason success, although AL West teams have won three of the last four postseason series against AL East teams (starting with the Angels' sweep of the Red Sox in 2009). -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:35 PM EDT
- DaffyDan
- Posts: 1181
- First: 5/30/2008
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In 78, Boomer's OPS was .684.Dewey's .784Hobson's .720.in 2003 Bill Mueller, who routinely hit 8th was .938.Trot Nixon and Tod Walker were .975 and .760Butch and Dewey both had better years in 79 and Boomer was replaced by a much better Bob Watson.Of course there is the question of "enhancement", but it looks like just based on numbers, 03 and 04 were much better than the 78-79 version. As were a quite a few other Red Sox teams.As of today the 2011 Red Sox are on pace to score 850 runs.-Daf. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:38 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10933
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I guess my judgement must be clouded by having been a teenager at the time. I will say Bill Mueller was one of the best #9 hitters ever. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:45 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
- Last: 10/28/2011
Hill, is the season over? Let's see what the numbers are then.
Let's see what this weak A.L. East pitching does in larger western venues - and against the weak A.L. Central.
As I said, a five year study is far more concrete than a 2 & 1/2 months... -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:16 PM EDT
- maxbialystock
- Posts: 4477
- First: 6/8/2010
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Not that far-fetched. The Sox currently are the highest scoring team in MLB and could well get better. Youk and Pedroia are below their norms. Crawford was awful in April, much better in May, and still better in June--he could be a terrific #6 in the lineup. Drew is way below his norms, and could improve--he's almost exactly the same age as Ortiz. Both catchers have put April behind them and are contributing. Lowrie at SS hit well for awhile, but is sliding, so maybe Scutaro can pick up the slack. -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:26 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:Hill , is the season over? Let's see what the numbers are then. Let's see what this weak A.L. East pitching does in larger western venues - and against the weak A.L. Central. As I said, a five year study is far more concrete than a 2 & 1/2 months...
Posted by harness
Please double-check my math, but since the start of the 2007 season my calculations show that Red Sox hitters have averaged 5.35 runs a game in 311 games against AL East opponents, 5.22 runs a game in 159 games against AL Central opponents and 4.94 runs a game in 167 games against AL West opponents:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2011-schedule-scores.shtml -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:30 PM EDT
- ctredsoxfanhugh
- Posts: 3699
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The Sox have steem rolled through good pitching this year. They beat up on Weaver (I believe his first lost), Hernandez, and they seem to ALWAYS get the best of Sabathia.And to think that Youkilis and Pedrioa haven't really even gotten started yet.......when they get hot LOOK out!!! -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:39 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
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In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:The Sox have steem rolled through good pitching this year. They beat up on Weaver (I believe his first lost), Hernandez, and they seem to ALWAYS get the best of Sabathia. And to think that Youkilis and Pedrioa haven't really even gotten started yet.......when they get hot LOOK out!!!
Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh
Which Hernandez was that?
Seattle's Felix Hernandez limited the Red Sox to two runs over seven innings, striking out 10, as the Red Sox narrowly escaped a sweep at Fenway Park:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201105010.shtml -
Re: Murderer's Row?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:40 PM EDT
- soxmeister
- Posts: 1281
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In Response to Re: Murderer's Row?:The Sox have steem rolled through good pitching this year. They beat up on Weaver (I believe his first lost), Hernandez, and they seem to ALWAYS get the best of Sabathia. And to think that Youkilis and Pedrioa haven't really even gotten started yet.......when they get hot LOOK out!!!
Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh
+10000