Mutiny by players is apparently real..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    Just read this article - many of you may have already seen it.  But apparently there are some of the players who are actively trying to get Valentine fired and are saying they do not want to play for him.

    Funny, they cite a big reason for this is because he left Lester in a game too long and opponents ran up the score on him.  I read posts here often begging Valentine to leave the starters in when they start stinking it up.

    But mosts posts here lately have called for Valentine's head on a stick, so that crowd will be amused to read the article.

    Personally, I've been disappointed in the lack of professional demeaner and effort by our highest paid players all year, so this mutiny is not a surprise - they've shown a lack of respect and cooperation for BV from day one.  I have to ask myself yet again...if you loved Francona so much, why did you let him down so badly in 2011?  These same players who are on a mission to fire BV are the same ones who cost Francona his job.

    They are simply always going to blame someone else for their failure to win ballgames.

    Make note that not all the players were a part of this. The most vocal were Gonazalez and Pedroia and sounds like Pedroia is leading the charge.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bobby-valentine-red-sox-mutiny-text-dustin-pedroia-larry-lucchino-john-henry-adrian-gonzalez-.html
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    "if you loved Francona so much, why did you let him down so badly in 2011".

    Biggest myth in baseball.  The Red sox collapsed last year because they didn't have enough starting pitching.  When Buch went down, the starters taxed the BP, and when the BP plus Beckett plus Lester collapsed, that was it.

    The offense played well enough down the stretch to make the post season.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    Dirty, i agree about the offense, even in the final few games, the Sox scored runs and gave their team a chance to win. Pitching and the pen let them down when they absolutely needed to just pitch even average. They were beyond mediocre in that month. Also, here's another truth for the fans out there--if the Rays had not made their comeback, had Papelbon simply gone 1-2-3, or even CC caught a liner, Francona's Sox would have made the postseason..and been re-signed.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    If you look at Paps season totals, 2011 was an amzing year for him.  You look at his stats for Sept. - not good.  2 saves and 2 blown saves, era of 3.72.

    Pap had 3 blown saves the entire year - 2 of them in September.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    He was having easily one of his best years, and he was getting saves the way you want--in quick style. He had in the previous few seasons been putting a ton of runners on base, but not in 2011. He actually was throwing a ton of strikes and getting guys out and using his splitfinger. Then in the final month, he was back to that shaky Papelbon and sure enough he threw something like 10 straight fastballs before giving up the gap double prior to the liner to LF.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    This is the first time I have been disappointed in Pedey.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    aaaaaaaaaaah, poor drewmitch. et tu Ped-ey? Come on, grow up. Pedroia did. AGON hates his manager, the most evenkeeled, calm player and professional I've ever seen on a baseball field. That's all I need to know about BV.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    And not that it matters, but the 1919 BlackSox scandal happened because the players got so fed up with their owner and his penny-pinching ways that they felt this would be the only way they can make money off of playing MLB. So when a group of players get that frustrated, nothing good comes from it. Fire the manager, and move on. Get a guy next season who will be more a GM-Players guy who can manipulate the media and not look sleepy.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..:
    [QUOTE]aaaaaaaaaaah, poor drewmitch. et tu Ped-ey? Come on, grow up. Pedroia did. AGON hates his manager, the most evenkeeled, calm player and professional I've ever seen on a baseball field. That's all I need to know about BV.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    AGon is the same guy who said the Red Sox didn't make it in 2011 because that is what G-d wanted. Okay.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..:
    [QUOTE]And not that it matters, but the 1919 BlackSox scandal happened because the players got so fed up with their owner and his penny-pinching ways that they felt this would be the only way they can make money off of playing MLB. So when a group of players get that frustrated, nothing good comes from it. Fire the manager, and move on. Get a guy next season who will be more a GM-Players guy who can manipulate the media and not look sleepy.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Pampered underperforming players on a $195M payroll team. Imagine if Rico Petrocelli went to Dick Williams to complain about leaving Jim Lonborg in a game too long. It would never happen. These players don't care and don't take any ownership.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..:
    [QUOTE]aaaaaaaaaaah, poor drewmitch. et tu Ped-ey? Come on, grow up. Pedroia did. AGON hates his manager, the most evenkeeled, calm player and professional I've ever seen on a baseball field. That's all I need to know about BV.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I disagree......AG can't take the pressure cooker of Boston and blames the manager.  These guys seem to just want to punch in, walk through the motions, and punch out - with a few exceptions.........and if you challenge them they cry foul.....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    so you are saying the owners should just give in to the players - fire the manager and get someone the players approve of?  do other mlb owners consult the players before hiring a manager?  I'm not being facetious - that's an honest question.  I seem to remember lot of posts last year blaming Francona for being too much a "player's manager".   Now everyone wants to demonize Valentine and wants to get another "players guy".  For what? For a comment to Middlebrooks that Middlebrooks was okay with - even defended BV?  For leaving Lester in too long?  Seriously?  Did Valentine have anything to do with Pap leaving?  Anything to do with Crawford's injury?  Lackey? Bailey? Ellsbury's injury?  Crawford's setback?  Papi's injury? Did BV make trade decisions?  He isn't even allowed to have his own coaching staff for crying out loud.  Pedroia is lashing out at BV because his buddy Tito got canned.  In the real, rational world, there is no way to make the case that this year is the fault of Valentine.   Pedroia has lead the charge against him in the clubhouse from day one.  He needs to stop and realize this personal vendetta is doing nothing but destroying morale and any hope of having a winning attitude on the field.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from angeroo. Show angeroo's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    They just need to shut the blank up and play ball.  It's starting to become embarassing to be a Sox fan.   Thank someone that football season is coming on fast.  Belichik wouldn't put up with this crap!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    I'd boo Pedroia if I were at the next home game, Gonzalez too. I don't like Valentine but that's ridiculous. Complaining via text message... sad. Poor Lester was left in to mop up his own damn mess and the players feel the need to complain about Valentine.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real.. : Pampered underperforming players on a $195M payroll team. Imagine if Rico Petrocelli went to Dick Williams to complain about leaving Jim Lonborg in a game too long. It would never happen. These players don't care and don't take any ownership.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    You do know that Yastrzemski got Dick Williams fired right? He went to Yawkey because Williams had been on him good for too long when Yaz was having a rash of injuries. He also told him that he couldn't play for him anymore and that it was him or me. So there.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    More on Yaz. When Lee was banished to the pen by the idiot known as The Gerbil, Yaz pleaded with him to let Lee get back into the rotation, knowing the Sox were collasping in 78. Zimmer said no. Nice work there by Zim to let Bobby Sprowl get whacked. He ended using Lee in 2 long relief outings as mop-up. Yeah, managers are the leaders. Lead you right to hell if you let them.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    This is a sad 12 months for Sox, since the unprecedented collapse last September.  That September collapse started with nearly all these same players today minus Paps and Youk, and may be a few other minor changes.  But it was under Tito's management last September, and it continued all of this year since April under BV.  I cannot understand how a bunch of professional, accomplished, proven players like Beckett, Lester and for some time during that stretch even Bucholz, Lackey and DiceK, all would just go down so suddenly.  The batting has carried it's weight through all this.  It's just the pitching.  Ever since John Farrell went up North the pitchers have gone South.

    Well, better days are ahead.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    Little lost his job for one non-decision. That was it. Otherwise, he would have managed the team in 2004. Just like Francona would have been manager this year if not for the Rays comeback combined with Papelbon's meltdown on the final day of the season... Why? Well, Grady would have been in the WS in 2003 and Francona would have been in the postseason of 2011 and you don't fire managers who make the postseason. You can fire guys who don't. Tell me does 2 games under .500 get you into the postseason?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..:
    [QUOTE]so you are saying the owners should just give in to the players - fire the manager and get someone the players approve of?  do other mlb owners consult the players before hiring a manager?  I'm not being facetious - that's an honest question.  I seem to remember lot of posts last year blaming Francona for being too much a "player's manager".   Now everyone wants to demonize Valentine and wants to get another "players guy".  For what? For a comment to Middlebrooks that Middlebrooks was okay with - even defended BV?  For leaving Lester in too long?  Seriously?  Did Valentine have anything to do with Pap leaving?  Anything to do with Crawford's injury?  Lackey? Bailey? Ellsbury's injury?  Crawford's setback?  Papi's injury? Did BV make trade decisions?  He isn't even allowed to have his own coaching staff for crying out loud.  Pedroia is lashing out at BV because his buddy Tito got canned.  In the real, rational world, there is no way to make the case that this year is the fault of Valentine.   Pedroia has lead the charge against him in the clubhouse from day one.  He needs to stop and realize this personal vendetta is doing nothing but destroying morale and any hope of having a winning attitude on the field.
    Posted by michaelsjr[/QUOTE]


    Pedroia must be removed from the equation. Promptly. Then the younger player like Doubront and Morales will realize that "thats not the way we do things around here".
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real.. : Pedroia must be removed from the equation. Promptly. Then the younger player like Doubront and Morales will realize that "thats not the way we do things around here".
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    right, they will learn that they will no longer have a Gold Glove 2b who goes all out on every defensive play to support them anymore. Good fact learned. Maybe they can also learn about history while eating some pizza.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Mutiny by players is apparently real..

    No question Williams was a great manager who did great things in Oakland, San Diego and his tenure with Sox. But my point, of course, is to show that players often do run the show and that players have been doing this for years and years and years. It's not news, and going crazy to save BV's job at this point is like saying you'd rather stay on the Titantic because the Captain is staying at his post. I say, save what's left of 2012 and see what the players do with an interim guy. Maybe they will surprise you all and....perform like a real team.
     
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