napoli...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: napoli...

    I wonder what the offers will be on Salty (or Lava).  

    If we get Naps, will we then look desperate to trade Salty?

    Will this lessen the return?

    If yes, maybe we should just trade Salty now.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    Mike Napoli - C - Rangers

    Jim Bowden of ESPN.com and Sirius XM reports that Mike Napoli is holding out for a four-year deal from the Red Sox.

    If Napoli can't get it from Boston, he's going to look for alternatives. With that in mind, Bowden hears that Napoli will meet with the Mariners, who may be willing to give a fourth year. The 31-year-old is coming off a down year, but has plenty of pop and could be used at catcher, first base or DH.

    Great ! Just what we need ,a guy who bats 200 but he has power... just f....n great




    Since his career average is .259, why wouldn't you call him a .300 hitter, using your rounding logic?



    better yet Notin, you can base someone's pitching value in their 9 seasons of excellece (cy young pitcher) on 2 starts in the postseason...sound familiar?

     




    Yes it does sound familiar.  THat was part of JoeBreidey's analysis of Greinke, found on page 2 of the "Mike Napoli and FOUR YEARS" thread.   Is there a reason you are pointing this out to me and not, say, JoeBreidey? 

     

    Or is it because I supported using statistical analysis, and therefore all of that voodoo is the same to you?   Any one stats is as bad as any other stat, and if you like one.  Right?   It would not be the first time you have shown disdain for numbers and stated you wanted done everything on gut feeling.

     

    And there is nothing wrong with gut feelings, beyond the actual answers you get about half the time, if you are lucky enough.  The real issue here is your narrow-minded contempt for anyone who does not think like you.  "ROM NO LIKE STATS! ROM WANT BASH STAT PEOPLE!! ROM LIKE AWARDS!! GET ROM AWARDS!! AND FEED ROM SOUP!!!"

     

    OK, maybe that isn't the most accurate interpretation.  Heck, I do not even know if you like soup.

     

    By the way, have you ever compared the careers of Greinke and Lester?  Would you pay Lester $110-120mill?



    Notin -that might be the most inane thing you have ever written - and that is saying something....and as far as Lester goes, if he were on another team and a free agent, the bootlickers would tear him apart despite his stellar career record/averages....I would be the one saying he is worth 4 years at 15-20 mil a yr based on his age and record....you on the other hand would be citing his 2012 season and dwelling on cancer remission rates stating he couldnt "hack" Boston...thats the difference between you an I...I have no agenda and speak honestly...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I wonder what the offers will be on Salty (or Lava).  

    If we get Naps, will we then look desperate to trade Salty?

    Will this lessen the return?

    If yes, maybe we should just trade Salty now.




    I just read MLB.com that napoli will be back in texas on Wednesday to talk with rangers mngt. a couple of quick quotes mention:

    May be an unproductive meeting cause the Ranger areonly interested in a 2 year contract and that the Rangers also have interest in FA Pierzynski.

    Who knows about Salty when/ if this deal will happen. The Red Sox are more interested Napoli playing first I assume.

    Looking from Napoli's circumstances and age he wants long term deal to for retirement reasons.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: napoli...

    FanGraphs columnist Jeff Sullivan takes a look at Mike Napoli:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/answers-to-questions-about-mike-napoli/

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: napoli...

    Napoli's meeting is now Tuesday, so we should see resolution on this issue soon.  Jen Royle, Red Sox reporter and close friend of Napoli, says that if the Sox offer 4 years, they will likely sign him.  For the record, she puts the Sox chance at signing him at 60%.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: napoli...

    If the Red Sox offer Napoli 4 years it will be among the stupidest things ever done by management in the history of teh franchise.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: napoli...

    I think Cherington is right to hold out for 3. It's take it or leave it time for the Napster-and my gut tells me he's gonna take it. I see him playing  for us this season.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: napoli...

    Has anyone notice that Napoli batted .227 last season?

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    If the Red Sox offer Napoli 4 years it will be among the stupidest things ever done by management in the history of teh franchise.



    Please!

    CC for 7 years.

    Lackey for $85M.

    Trading Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater.

    Babe Ruth for cash.

    Not sending Fisk a contract.

    Baqwell for L Anderson.

    And on and on...

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: napoli...

    "Napoli's not good enough for a 1st rate contract. It sounds like he doesn't want to play for the Red Sox but will do so if they will pay a premium. Pull the plug on the guy at 2 years and 20M.  "

    Holy moly I fully agree with Softy, what is this world coming to? 

    It doesn't matter if the Sox have cap room, they should NOT offer more than 2 years to just about anyone over 30 in the post roids era. It's the long term nature of these contracts that have hurt the Sox so badly in the past. 

    Overpay a bit for two years - ok. Beyond two - no. Not unless it's a mid-twenties barnburner.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "Napoli's not good enough for a 1st rate contract. It sounds like he doesn't want to play for the Red Sox but will do so if they will pay a premium. Pull the plug on the guy at 2 years and 20M.  "

    Holy moly I fully agree with Softy, what is this world coming to? 

    It doesn't matter if the Sox have cap room, they should NOT offer more than 2 years to just about anyone over 30 in the post roids era. It's the long term nature of these contracts that have hurt the Sox so badly in the past. 

    Overpay a bit for two years - ok. Beyond two - no. Not unless it's a mid-twenties barnburner.

    You might as well pack up the tent then, because available mid-twenties barnburners are a rather scarce commodity.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Has anyone notice that Napoli batted .227 last season?

     

     



    Has anyone noticed that batting average is a 1980's statistic?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    If the Red Sox offer Napoli 4 years it will be among the stupidest things ever done by management in the history of teh franchise.



    I think 4 years of Napoli would not be as bad as giving JD Drew a 5-year, $70 million contract back in 2007.  

    But anyways, four years is too much for Napoli.   

    I hope the Mariners get desperate and sign him instead.  

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    In response to Teakus's comment:

    I think Cherington is right to hold out for 3. It's take it or leave it time for the Napster-and my gut tells me he's gonna take it. I see him playing  for us this season.




    greetings Teakus

    I think he gets and takes a 4 yr deal from seatle

    I don't think 4 yrs should be a deal breaker in todays market

    if you want the guy you pay the price




    Hiya Zac. We shall see my friend! Lordy knows my guts been wrong before. I think the real issue is whether the Red Sox will be committed to winning this season, and that of course means willing to spend. If not then nobody will want to play here anyway...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: napoli...

    seems as if ben is standing firm at 3 years. which is perfect. if the rangers and/or the mariners don't offer him a 4 year deal then i think he will end up in boston for sure

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: napoli...

    2009-2012:

    Out of the top  33 1Bmen with 1350+ PAs since 2009, the average 1Bman's OPS (#16 & 17) was .835/.822 (Morneau & Helton).

    The above average 1Bmen by OPS were:

    1) Miggy  1.003 (3B now)

    2) Votto   .994

    3) Pujols  .969  (In decline)

    4) Fielder .952 (May be a DH soon)

    5) AGon    .906

    6) Konerko .896 (Keep waiting for this guy to decline as he ages)

    7) Berkman .885 (Clearly not above average anymore)

    8) Youkilis   .877 (In decline)

    9) Napoli     .867  (Catcher/DH as well)

    10) Teixeira .863 (Has declined for 4 straight years)

    11) M Morse  .857 (One year of team control)

    12) K Morales .857 (One year of team control)

    13) Howard    .856

    14) B Butler   .854  (More of a DH type)

    15) D Lee        .844  (Not a better than avg 1Bman anymore)

     

    Going by OPS only, it appears that Napoli, Morse, and Morales are pretty close.

    Getting Napoli would not cost prospects, as Drewski poiints out, and he can slide to catcher at NL parks to allow Papi to play 1B, and also provides for a 3rd catcher that will allow us to PH for our catcher late in games.

    Getting Morse or Morales and extending him might have more potential upside in terms of offense, and Morse can play LF, but both will cost us nice prospects.

    If you take away Miggy (3B now), Berkman & Youk (declined), then Naps, Morse and morales are all top 10 now by OPS. They may all now be better offensively than Teix & Konerko as well, making them #5-7.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: napoli...

    I say avoid Napoli!

    OPS+ 2006 -2012:   110  107  148  120  115  173  110

    Looks to me like he had two great years.

    I agree with Dave Cameron's take:  Napoli’s not exactly a sure thing himself. The massive spike in his strikeout rate should scare you. The fact that he only hit nine doubles last year should scare you. The fact that he’s a catcher on the wrong side of 30 should scare you. Maybe he goes Josh Willingham on the league and shows everyone that the strikeout rate wasn’t a trend, but there’s some legitimate downside to giving him a long term deal. Given his age, his body type, his skillset, and the fact that he’s already logged 4,000+ big league innings behind the plate, counting on him to be a productive player in 2014 and beyond is a gamble. At the right price, it might be a gamble worth making, but if you’re outbidding the Red Sox, it’s probably not the right price anymore.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    I say avoid Napoli!

    OPS+ 2006 -2012:   110  107  148  120  115  173  110

    Looks to me like he had two great years.

    I agree with Dave Cameron's take:  Napoli’s not exactly a sure thing himself.



    a) How many sure thing players are there.

    b) How many of them are available.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    I say avoid Napoli!

    OPS+ 2006 -2012:   110  107  148  120  115  173  110

    Looks to me like he had two great years.

    I agree with Dave Cameron's take:  Napoli’s not exactly a sure thing himself. The massive spike in his strikeout rate should scare you. The fact that he only hit nine doubles last year should scare you. The fact that he’s a catcher on the wrong side of 30 should scare you. Maybe he goes Josh Willingham on the league and shows everyone that the strikeout rate wasn’t a trend, but there’s some legitimate downside to giving him a long term deal. Given his age, his body type, his skillset, and the fact that he’s already logged 4,000+ big league innings behind the plate, counting on him to be a productive player in 2014 and beyond is a gamble. At the right price, it might be a gamble worth making, but if you’re outbidding the Red Sox, it’s probably not the right price anymore.




    I see 2 great years, and 5 good years.  If you saw 5 great years, then we would be talking about a Mauer contract. 

    I find it much more likely that a well documented hamstring injury that lingered through the season was the reason for the K spike.  He was 30 years old last year.

    From 2008-2011, his OPS was top 5 among firstbaseman.  Thats with the wear and tear of catching.  He's one of the best power hitters in the league and he's 31 years old.  He draws a ton of walks.  There's a reason why he's target #1.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    I say avoid Napoli!

    OPS+ 2006 -2012:   110  107  148  120  115  173  110

    Looks to me like he had two great years.

    I agree with Dave Cameron's take:  Napoli’s not exactly a sure thing himself.



    a) How many sure thing players are there.

    b) How many of them are available.



    Moon's list should tell you everything you need to know!  Miggy no longer qualifies, as he's a 3B.  Konerko is 37 so the drop off is coming.  Youk is in free fall.  Berkman is 100.

    So you can expect the production of these three to plummet.  Also cross Miggy off the list so he no longer qualifies as a 1B.

    Lets see the adjusted list:

    1. Votto

    2. Pujols

    3. Fielder

    4. AGON

    5. Napoli

    6. Tex

    Out of the six best hitting 1B in the league, one has put up the numbers despite having to deal w/ the riggors of catching.  one can be had for less than 20M/yr.  one can slide into the C spot during interleague games.  one absolutely rakes at Fenway.  one has never had any lineup protection in his life.

    People dont want to give this guy 12M/yr?  Just turned 31 (young for a FA), wont take any prospects (or draft picks) to acquire.  All comparables are 20M+ guys!!  Naps is a righty pull hitter who draws a ton of walks.  He's a positive clubhouse guy.

    12M/yr for Naps is a steal.  If we have to go four years, then we'll go four years.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: napoli...

    It is a question of whether you want Napoli or not.  If you really want him , the difference between three years and four years should not be that big of a deal.  Some of the posters like to think a little too deeply into things.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    I say avoid Napoli!

    OPS+ 2006 -2012:   110  107  148  120  115  173  110

    Looks to me like he had two great years.

    I agree with Dave Cameron's take:  Napoli’s not exactly a sure thing himself.



    a) How many sure thing players are there.

    b) How many of them are available.



    Moon's list should tell you everything you need to know!  Miggy no longer qualifies, as he's a 3B.  Konerko is 37 so the drop off is coming.  Youk is in free fall.  Berkman is 100.

    So you can expect the production of these three to plummet.  Also cross Miggy off the list so he no longer qualifies as a 1B.

    Lets see the adjusted list:

    1. Votto

    2. Pujols

    3. Fielder

    4. AGON

    5. Napoli

    6. Tex

    Out of the six best hitting 1B in the league, one has put up the numbers despite having to deal w/ the riggors of catching.  one can be had for less than 20M/yr.  one can slide into the C spot during interleague games.  one absolutely rakes at Fenway.  one has never had any lineup protection in his life.

    People dont want to give this guy 12M/yr?  Just turned 31 (young for a FA), wont take any prospects (or draft picks) to acquire.  All comparables are 20M+ guys!!  Naps is a righty pull hitter who draws a ton of walks.  He's a positive clubhouse guy.

    12M/yr for Naps is a steal.  If we have to go four years, then we'll go four years.



    You've made a great case for Napoli, Drewski.  It also sounds like Sox scouting department feels the same way.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: napoli...

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    I say avoid Napoli!

    OPS+ 2006 -2012:   110  107  148  120  115  173  110

    Looks to me like he had two great years.

    I agree with Dave Cameron's take:  Napoli’s not exactly a sure thing himself.



    a) How many sure thing players are there.

    b) How many of them are available.



    Moon's list should tell you everything you need to know!  Miggy no longer qualifies, as he's a 3B.  Konerko is 37 so the drop off is coming.  Youk is in free fall.  Berkman is 100.

    So you can expect the production of these three to plummet.  Also cross Miggy off the list so he no longer qualifies as a 1B.

    Lets see the adjusted list:

    1. Votto

    2. Pujols

    3. Fielder

    4. AGON

    5. Napoli

    6. Tex

    Out of the six best hitting 1B in the league, one has put up the numbers despite having to deal w/ the riggors of catching.  one can be had for less than 20M/yr.  one can slide into the C spot during interleague games.  one absolutely rakes at Fenway.  one has never had any lineup protection in his life.

    People dont want to give this guy 12M/yr?  Just turned 31 (young for a FA), wont take any prospects (or draft picks) to acquire.  All comparables are 20M+ guys!!  Naps is a righty pull hitter who draws a ton of walks.  He's a positive clubhouse guy.

    12M/yr for Naps is a steal.  If we have to go four years, then we'll go four years.




    +1

    can't argue with those numbers. although i'm hesisitant to offer him 4 years.. 3 year deal with a vesting option on a 4th year would be ideal but if he have to go 4 to aquire him then so be it. he can DH in a couple years when papi retires

     
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