Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

      His swings are always cosistent & solid.... A keen student of the game/trade !!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm not sure "overachiever" is a good description of Nava. Yes, he slipped through the cracks, but once he made it to prefessional ball, he has achieved very well and consistently for many years. It should not be a big surprise that he is doing well here and now.



    I was calling him an overachiver because he has consistently performed and progressed further than anyone ever imagined.  I chose that label based on how he was perceived versus what he has done so far.  Is he that guy that continues to push the envelope? is he in the midst of a career year? or about to come back down to earth?

    I mean this in a great way by the way, I'm not trying to knock Nava in any way.  But he is having a career year at 30 years old.  Then again maybe he is late developer as well.  Look at what Jose Bautista did for his first 6 seasons.  I'm not saying he is the next Jose Bautista but that's how it happens.

    So is this just a hot start? or does Nava continue to defeat his doubters?  I'm hoping for later. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    This season Daniel Nava ranks 26th among qualified American League outfielders in Wins Above Replacement (39th among all AL outfielders):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=40&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    I like underdogs such as the 30-year-old former independent leaguer, but I keep his accomplishments in perspective.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I'm not sure "overachiever" is a good description of Nava. Yes, he slipped through the cracks, but once he made it to prefessional ball, he has achieved very well and consistently for many years. It should not be a big surprise that he is doing well here and now.

     



    I was calling him an overachiver because he has consistently performed and progressed further than anyone ever imagined.  I chose that label based on how he was perceived versus what he has done so far.  Is he that guy that continues to push the envelope? is he in the midst of a career year? or about to come back down to earth?

     

    I mean this in a great way by the way, I'm not trying to knock Nava in any way.  But he is having a career year at 30 years old.  Then again maybe he is late developer as well.  Look at what Jose Bautista did for his first 6 seasons.  I'm not saying he is the next Jose Bautista but that's how it happens.

    So is this just a hot start? or does Nava continue to defeat his doubters?  I'm hoping for later. 




    Could be a "late bloomer" thing.

    I prefer to think he saw an opportunity looming this spring and did everything he could to take advantage of it.

    From what I've read, he's been worked his butt off, even after being sent back to AAA (Iggy, take note).

    Either way, it's great so see him doing so well. I hope it continues.

    It's tough not like the kid.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I'm not sure "overachiever" is a good description of Nava. Yes, he slipped through the cracks, but once he made it to prefessional ball, he has achieved very well and consistently for many years. It should not be a big surprise that he is doing well here and now.

     



    I was calling him an overachiver because he has consistently performed and progressed further than anyone ever imagined.  I chose that label based on how he was perceived versus what he has done so far.  Is he that guy that continues to push the envelope? is he in the midst of a career year? or about to come back down to earth?

     

    I mean this in a great way by the way, I'm not trying to knock Nava in any way.  But he is having a career year at 30 years old.  Then again maybe he is late developer as well.  Look at what Jose Bautista did for his first 6 seasons.  I'm not saying he is the next Jose Bautista but that's how it happens.

    So is this just a hot start? or does Nava continue to defeat his doubters?  I'm hoping for later. 



    I underastand what you meant, and I'm not disagreeing with anything here, but for how long does this kid have to do great, before it's not a surprise anymore?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    This season Daniel Nava ranks 26th among qualified American League outfielders in Wins Above Replacement (39th among all AL outfielders):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=40&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    I like underdogs such as the 30-year-old former independent leaguer, but I keep his accomplishments in perspective.



    26th out of 90 starting ML  OF'ers is pretty good... better than pretty good.

    His OPS is top 30 out of all players in MLB with 140+ PAs.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I'm not sure "overachiever" is a good description of Nava. Yes, he slipped through the cracks, but once he made it to prefessional ball, he has achieved very well and consistently for many years. It should not be a big surprise that he is doing well here and now.

     



    I was calling him an overachiver because he has consistently performed and progressed further than anyone ever imagined.  I chose that label based on how he was perceived versus what he has done so far.  Is he that guy that continues to push the envelope? is he in the midst of a career year? or about to come back down to earth?

     

    I mean this in a great way by the way, I'm not trying to knock Nava in any way.  But he is having a career year at 30 years old.  Then again maybe he is late developer as well.  Look at what Jose Bautista did for his first 6 seasons.  I'm not saying he is the next Jose Bautista but that's how it happens.

    So is this just a hot start? or does Nava continue to defeat his doubters?  I'm hoping for later. 

     




    Could be a "late bloomer" thing.

     

    I prefer to think he saw an opportunity looming this spring and did everything he could to take advantage of it.

    From what I've read, he's been worked his butt off, even after being sent back to AAA (Iggy, take note).

    Either way, it's great so see him doing so well. I hope it continues.

    It's tough not like the kid.



    How is he really a "Late bloomer" when he had these numbers?

    Age 24: 1.100 OPS in IND

    Age 25:  .948 in A+ 

    Age 26:  .991 for 2 teams (A+ and AA)

    Age 27:  .830 for AAA

    Age 28:  .778 for AAA

    Age 29:  .950 for AAA

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    Those are great numbers but the 1.100 was also in the "gold" league as an independent player.

    He was also very age advanced at EVERY level.  Maybe Daniel Nava has had a hard time shaking that underdog label because every time he performs very well at a level it's perceived that he was doing so because of his age, and everyone assumed he couldnt do it at the next level.  But Nava keeps on proving people wrong.  

    And while his numbers where good at Pawtucket, they haven't exactly screamed MVP either.  Nava had a few big hits but otherwise he's been a .240's hitter in the bigs. UNTIL this year, and if he keeps it up then I'd say having his first sustained MLB season at an all star level at the age of 30 could be sufficient enough to label him a late bloomer.

    Maybe in another lifetime Nava gets drafted, and moves up the ranks of the system faster and he's had this talent all along but if we've learned anything here it's that you can't scout everyone.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    This season Daniel Nava has posted a .298/.392/.504/.896 line in 148 plate appearances.

    In his first 147 plate appearances in 2012, Nava posted a .339/.452/.517/.969 line. In his remaining 170 plate appearances in 2012, Nava posted a .168/.266/.289/.555 line.

    ZIPS projects a .252/.341/.395/.736 line for the remainder of the 2013 season while Steamer projects a .260/.351/.402/.753 line.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5450&position=OF

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    Suddenly, fangraph's WAR and UZR mean something to softy. What a coincidence it happens to be the only time those numbers agree with a softy position.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Projected slash lines isn't "WAR". 



    The 26th place line was.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    I underastand what you meant, and I'm not disagreeing with anything here, but for how long does this kid have to do great, before it's not a surprise anymore?

     ,  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In May 2011, he was DFA and removed from the 40 man

    Nava recently admitted to considering retiring when he got the news. That he was not invited to the big league camp in 2012.

    SLG%  

    '10  .360 in MLB

    '11   .406

    '12    .390

    '13    .504

     

      I'd say it is still a surprise 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    Nava has started 75% of the time.  Farrell has been using him perfectly.  Mostly against RH starters with some starts against lefties thrown in. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    This season Daniel Nava In his remaining 170 plate appearances in 2012, Nava posted a .168/.266/.289/.555 line.

     

     



    Was it due to injury?

     

    Things did not go nearly as well the rest of the year, as his line started to slip in July, and he ended up spending time on the disabled list later that month with a cyst in his wrist -- one that would eventually be removed in the off-season -- that was causing him pain when batting from the left side. As a large portion of Nava's value is wrapped up in his performance against right-handed pitchers ---- it's not surprising that his OPS from July 1 onward was just 568

     

    I like underdogs such as the 30-year-old former independent leaguer, but I keep his accomplishments in perspective.

    2013  OPS   Cano  .899     Nava  .896    Trout   .880     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    I underastand what you meant, and I'm not disagreeing with anything here, but for how long does this kid have to do great, before it's not a surprise anymore?

     ,  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In May 2011, he was DFA and removed from the 40 man

    Nava recently admitted to considering retiring when he got the news. That he was not invited to the big league camp in 2012.

    SLG%  

    '10  .360 in MLB

    '11   .406

    '12    .390

    '13    .504

     

      I'd say it is still a surprise 

    Things did not go nearly as well the rest of the year, as his line started to slip in July, and he ended up spending time on the disabled list later that month with a cyst in his wrist -- one that would eventually be removed in the off-season -- that was causing him pain when batting from the left side. As a large portion of Nava's value is wrapped up in his performance against right-handed pitchers ---- it's not surprising that his OPS from July 1 onward was just 568

     

    I like underdogs such as the 30-year-old former independent leaguer, but I keep his accomplishments in perspective.

    2013  OPS   Cano  .899     Nava  .896    Trout   .880     

     

    The power has been a surprise, but the OBP isn't that much to me:

    .475 ind

    .427 A+

    .479 AA

    .379 AAA

    .415 minor leagues combined (1934 PAs)

    .361 OBP in MLB, including .380 vs RHPs.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    This season Daniel Nava ranks 26th among qualified American League outfielders in Wins Above Replacement (39th among all AL outfielders):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=40&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    I like underdogs such as the 30-year-old former independent leaguer, but I keep his accomplishments in perspective.




    Sorry!  This is typical of the 'stat geeks' guide to a ballplayer.  No offense Hill.  It just is!

     

    The guy is flat out CLEANING UP on the offensive end of the game.  Top 25 most productive hitters per at bat in ALL of MLB!  PERIOD!

     

    on D.....  He's been solid!  Not great, but only because he simply doesn't have the speed.  MUCH better arm than Ells!!!!  but I concede that Ells is all around a much better OF'r.

     

    ct's extrapolated stats are spot on.  Any way you slice it, he's been one of the best in the MLB on O per at bat!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    This season Daniel Nava ranks 26th among qualified American League outfielders in Wins Above Replacement (39th among all AL outfielders):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=40&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    I like underdogs such as the 30-year-old former independent leaguer, but I keep his accomplishments in perspective.

     




     

    Sorry!  This is typical of the 'stat geeks' guide to a ballplayer.  No offense Hill.  It just is!

     

    The guy is flat out CLEANING UP on the offensive end of the game.  Top 25 most productive hitters per at bat in ALL of MLB!  PERIOD!

     

    on D.....  He's been solid!  Not great, but only because he simply doesn't have the speed.  MUCH better arm than Ells!!!!  but I concede that Ells is all around a much better OF'r.

     

    ct's extrapolated stats are spot on.  Any way you slice it, he's been one of the best in the MLB on O per at bat!



    I have always contended that fangraphs overvalues LF defense (see Crawford's inflated WAR numbers with TB).

    Nava is not a great fielder, but he has improved over the past few years and has not been as bad as the UZR numbers indicate.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Nava: Very little love, respect, or recognition for an absolutely stunning All-Star 1/4 season start?

    Nava Love.

    It's got a ring to it.

     
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