Navarro 2

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    Navarro 2

    On the first Navarro thread, Harness wisely counseled against getting too far ahead of ourselves. Unwisely, here I go.  
    Some posters here and on the Sox message board wondered whether Youkilis was a good bet long term at third base. Even without a chrystal ball, that seems like a legitimate issue.  Some people even see it as an issue this year. 
    Navarro will get some playing time at third, maybe some at SS, in what is surely a look-see call up. If he begins to look like a candidate for third, the Sox might be tempted to let Ortiz walk and slot Youk at DH. That possibility depends, in turn, on how Youk and especially Ortiz perform for the remainder of this season.
    Navarro is a piece of the puzzle. It's up to him to put his name forward as a candidate for third or short.  Whether he ends up starting at one or the other, or neither, is tied to what happens to Iglesias -- and to Youk.  And to Ortiz.
    And perhaps to Lowrie.  
    What's brewing now will impact the future -- maybe this year, certainly next year.
    If they don't all get hurt and have to be replaced by the Portland lineup. 
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    I really don't see him being a viable hitting option to the likes of Papi. Can't go there, my friend. I like is arm and he's shown some range, but that's an early call. His error the other night on an easy gb was costly.

    I think it best to take it day by day with this kid. Right now reliability is more important than flash.
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]I really don't see him being a viable hitting option to the likes of Papi. Can't go there, my friend. I like is arm and he's shown some range, but that's an early call. His error the other night on an easy gb was costly. I think it best to take it day by day with this kid. Right now reliability is more important than flash .
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
    Let's see what Ortiz does at the plate and how Youk handles third for the remainder of the season.  Both could be back at the same stations next year. Or not. If not, the left side of the infield will probably have two new faces. As I said, Navarro will have a chance to show whether he's in the mix, if not day by day, over a stretch of playing time, either in Boston or in Pawtucket. Even the best boot easy ground balls.

     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    i think that navarro is going to have to show more offense to be a starter at third base by next year.

    he may be able to do it, but so far has not.

    right now his bat looks more like a shortstop's bat with occassional power and a .260-.275 BA.   can he handle SS defensively?
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]On the first Navarro thread, Harness wisely counseled against getting too far ahead of ourselves. Unwisely, here I go.   Some posters here and on the Sox message board wondered whether Youkilis was a good bet long term at third base. Even without a chrystal ball, that seems like a legitimate issue.  Some people even see it as an issue this year.  Navarro will get some playing time at third, maybe some at SS, in what is surely a look-see call up. If he begins to look like a candidate for third, the Sox might be tempted to let Ortiz walk and slot Youk at DH. That possibility depends, in turn, on how Youk and especially Ortiz perform for the remainder of this season. Navarro is a piece of the puzzle. It's up to him to put his name forward as a candidate for third or short.  Whether he ends up starting at one or the other, or neither, is tied to what happens to Iglesias -- and to Youk.  And to Ortiz. And perhaps to Lowrie.   What's brewing now will impact the future -- maybe this year, certainly next year. If they don't all get hurt and have to be replaced by the Portland lineup. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Lavarnway figures at DH in the near future IMO.  There is always a place for a guy that can rake, even if he cant field worth a darn

     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    rimrattler:  You're right. Navarro IS on trial both at the plate and in the field. His minor league managers think he has the potential to hit better than .260-.275 in the majors.  He has some pop but maybe not enough to play third regularly. The book is that he has good range and a good arm, so SS might be his best position.
    He's on the radar.
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    Navarro reminds me of Jose Uribe-- same type of body, same type of swing-- he definitely does not get cheated when he swings.
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    Don't get me wrong: I was always for getting AGon, but I did point out that Youk was getting more fragile, and playing 3B would increase the chance for injury. Of course, softy disagreed, saying 1B was more risky and a harder position to play. I'm not blaming Youk's recent injuries on playing 3B, but I will say this: this team woulkd be crushed if Youk gets hurt for the whole season. His RH'd bat is vital to our success.

    Ideally, it would be nice for him to slide to DH next year, and be available as a back-up corner IF'er (could play either at NL parks), but no way can we let Papi walk to the Yanks this winter. Maybe the Yanks will want the DH slot for Jeter (a horrible fielding SS) or ARod (his bat is worth 99% of his contract), but can we risk seeing Papi in pinstripes?
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]Don't get me wrong: I was always for getting AGon, but I did point out that Youk was getting more fragile, and playing 3B would increase the chance for injury. Of course, softy disagreed, saying 1B was more risky and a harder position to play. I'm not blaming Youk's recent injuries on playing 3B, but I will say this: this team woulkd be crushed if Youk gets hurt for the whole season. His RH'd bat is vital to our success. Ideally, it would be nice for him to slide to DH next year, and be available as a back-up corner IF'er (could play either at NL parks), but no way can we let Papi walk to the Yanks this winter. Maybe the Yanks will want the DH slot for Jeter (a horrible fielding SS) or ARod (his bat is worth 99% of his contract), but can we risk seeing Papi in pinstripes?
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
     A club, at the least, needs a third baseman with great range to his left or a SS with great range to his right. The Sox had one of those two last season, neither now.  Even when healthy, Youkilis has lost some range. And his ankles might be ( might be ) reacting to heavier duty at third. If he proves unable to hold down the position, the only alternative is DH.  Maybe he gets through another season after this one, and Ortiz has been signed for two more. Then what?
    ARod more than Jeter seems likely to become the DH eventually. But if the Yanks think he can handle third for two years after this one, they very well might make a play for Ortiz to DH for those two years.  
    Both in Boston and in New York there are several interdependent factors that will have to play themselves out.   


     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]Navarro reminds me of Jose Uribe-- same type of body, same type of swing-- he definitely does not get cheated when he swings.
    Posted by JYaso[/QUOTE]
     

    You just gave me more reason to like Navarro ....  folks have said the same of my golf game .....


       I'm TERRIBLE, but I get the most for my effort and denarii
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Navarro 2 :  A club, at the least, needs a third baseman with great range to his left or a SS with great range to his right. The Sox had one of those two last season, neither now.  Even when healthy, Youkilis has lost some range. And his ankles might be ( might be ) reacting to heavier duty at third. If he proves unable to hold down the position, the only alternative is DH.  Maybe he gets through another season after this one, and Ortiz has been signed for two more. Then what? ARod more than Jeter seems likely to become the DH eventually. But if the Yanks think he can handle third for two years after this one, they very well might make a play for Ortiz to DH for those two years.   Both in Boston and in New York there are several interdependent factors that will have to play themselves out.   
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    If Papi is on the open market, you can bet on that!
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Navarro 2 : If Papi is on the open market, you can bet on that!
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I don't EVEN want to think of Papi in a NYucks uni.....
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]1. Trade Lowrie before the deadline if he comes off the DL, otherwise winter trade  2. expitch is right, if Ortiz seriously declines in 2nd half, DH Youk more in 2012 as that has more value. If that is the case, divide the 3rd base between Youk and Navvy backup 3rd and sign a veteran lefty 4th OF'er to a one or two year deal to split the DH time (Kubel would fit nicely and, if Ortiz seriously declines in 2nd half, would be much better value as the platoon DH/4th OF'er. Would likely take two years, but the use of a player opt out for the big first year works well with players in this phase of the career (see Beltre) Kubel is a high OBP and singles guy v. RHP, which is a good fit for a lefty platoon guy in Fenway. He is a terrible OF'er, but that's why he's a platoon player in the first place. If Ortiz goes south, much better roster value in not having a Vladdy type of DH and getting a guy that is young enough to at least play some split time field. If Ortiz finishes well, offer a one year deal for 5 to 8M with max CBA allowed incentives. If the Yankees offer a 2 year deal, match it with a career services deal of some kind.      3. Navvy is a terrific athlete who is raw and not polished on plate work but has a lot of bat speed. Hard to say where his hitting ceiling is, but he's more than adequate as a UIF"er and 5th corner OF'er for 2011 and 2012. 4. Iggy should be the 2012 SS plan, with Scutaro or other veteran signed to a cheap one year deal to be Iggy training wheels bridge transition.  The Red Sox need a star young slugging RH OF'er, more than any other position player. The Dodgers are floudering and now is the perfect time to try and acquire Kemp (3 team deal would most likely get it done if a 2 team deal doesn't match up) and officially make Crawford, Ellsbury's expensive replacement and Reddick or Kalish as Ellsbury's cheaper recapture value long term replacement.    
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    A half-decent post until you got on UR Kemp fantasy kick.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Navarro 2 :  A club, at the least, needs a third baseman with great range to his left or a SS with great range to his right. The Sox had one of those two last season, neither now.  Even when healthy, Youkilis has lost some range. And his ankles might be ( might be ) reacting to heavier duty at third. If he proves unable to hold down the position, the only alternative is DH.  Maybe he gets through another season after this one, and Ortiz has been signed for two more. Then what? ARod more than Jeter seems likely to become the DH eventually. But if the Yanks think he can handle third for two years after this one, they very well might make a play for Ortiz to DH for those two years.   Both in Boston and in New York there are several interdependent factors that will have to play themselves out.   
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Doubt it; half the Yankee team is already broken down fielders vying for DH Duty.
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Navarro 2 : Doubt it; half the Yankee team is already broken down fielders vying for DH Duty.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    Do you mean Jeter and Posada? Do you consider ARod broken down? Ortiz would be a better bet at DH than either Jeter or Posada.  

     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    All of the above, plus those gazelles Swisher and A. Jones; and they're stuck with those contracts; so, no Ortiz I believe.
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]All of the above, plus those gazelles Swisher and A. Jones; and they're stuck with those contracts; so, no Ortiz I believe.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Funny, steve, funny.


    I can only hope you're right.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]On the first Navarro thread, Harness wisely counseled against getting too far ahead of ourselves. Unwisely, here I go.   Some posters here and on the Sox message board wondered whether Youkilis was a good bet long term at third base. Even without a chrystal ball, that seems like a legitimate issue.  Some people even see it as an issue this year.  Navarro will get some playing time at third, maybe some at SS, in what is surely a look-see call up. If he begins to look like a candidate for third, the Sox might be tempted to let Ortiz walk and slot Youk at DH. That possibility depends, in turn, on how Youk and especially Ortiz perform for the remainder of this season. Navarro is a piece of the puzzle. It's up to him to put his name forward as a candidate for third or short.  Whether he ends up starting at one or the other, or neither, is tied to what happens to Iglesias -- and to Youk.  And to Ortiz. And perhaps to Lowrie.   What's brewing now will impact the future -- maybe this year, certainly next year. If they don't all get hurt and have to be replaced by the Portland lineup. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Middlebrooks looks like 3B of the future.  He is absolutely killing it at Portland.

     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]All of the above, plus those gazelles Swisher and A. Jones; and they're stuck with those contracts; so, no Ortiz I believe.
    Posted by nhsteven


    R U serious? With that short porch?
    They'd have him signed before Papi made plane reservations.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Navarro 2

    In Response to Re: Navarro 2:
    [QUOTE]All of the above, plus those gazelles Swisher and A. Jones; and they're stuck with those contracts; so, no Ortiz I believe.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    Neither Swisher nor A. Jones is DH material.  Nor is Jeter. That leaves ARod but not, probably, for at least two years. Who might fill in those two years? Theo knows, and will have first dibs -- if he wants them.

     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    First of all, everyone is dreaming to expect Navarro to be a starting level player for the Sox, ever. I may be wrong but I don't think so. At best, he's a Bill Hall type supersub with a little bit better bat. Both the HR and the double he has hit recently, were very fat pitches anyone at his level should be able to consistently hit. He has consistently had problems with off speed stuff. There is every reason to think that will continue.

    2nd, I think we make a good offer to Papi but if he is going to get more than a 30 mil, 3 year deal, I hope to God we let him go.

    At one time I was very concerned about Papi in Yankee stadium, and of course I still am, but no one throws him inside pitches much at all any more and Papi is not going to be that effective taking the ball to LF in Yankee stadium. And he may well tank again at any time.

    If he leaves we get 2 picks probably and play Lavarnway or a rotation of other players. We get increased roster flexibility and we save a bunch of cash. We can get another, quality player for 10 mil a year. 

    He is hitting extremely well this year. I hope it continues.
     
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    Re: Navarro 2

    Agreed on Middlebroooks and we have others coming up like Cecchinni who also could be factors.

    Lavarnway is on pace to hit 39 HR over a full 600 AB season. Hitting around .300. 2 time Redsox offensive player of the year and might be again this year. NCAA batting champ in college. You know, this guy might just be a good hitter at the mlb level. And his stroke is perfect for Fenway and he already can hit well to the opposite field and take a walk. Every indication is that he will be a solid OPS hitter at the mlb level and be cheap as heck. A middle of the order bat as a potential catcher/DH.

    He, Head, Brentz, Jacobs, Hassan and a few others really saved the farm this year. A whole new crop of studs. 
     
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