Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    easy, marco scutaro without a doubt. ss is arguably the most important defensive position on the baseball field. scutaro is currently a below average defender with limited range and a weak arm. in reality he should be playing second base. Jose iglesias on the other hand could be a future gold glover. yes iglesias has his struggles with the bat but he did manage to hit .333 in the 10 games he played in this past season with the sox. but the reality of situation is that iglesias would be batting 9th. so any offense he contributes would be a bonus. plus he would save many runs with his defense. If it is indeed true that roy oswalt is asking for 8 mill for 1 year then the 6 mill the sox would save by trading scutaro for a prospect would eat up a big chunk of that. and its not like scutaro provides a lot with the bat. he is a career .270 hitter.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of? : I can't see Beckett or Scutaro getting traded. I don't think they are looking to upgrade RF at the moment.  They might bring in a platoon guy to play right that bats right handed, but signing a starting RFer probably won't happen. 
    Posted by Skadude22[/QUOTE]

    I am only thinking of a platoon RFer, since that is all that is out there in FA now anyway.  A Ludwick or Spillbourghs type, who hits righties well and can play Rf at Fenway.  You get a guy like that for around $3 million, Oswalt for the $8 million he seeks and you have to at least:  1) rework Ortiz's numbers before some arbitrator gives him a pay raise; 2) Trade Scutaro or Iggy; and 3) trade Beckett and shed at least 7-8 million of his contract.  Otherwise, the numbers just don't add up.  If you also trade Salty you end up with enough salary relief that you can add some salary in July and still not go over the threshold, if that is your goal.

    I am not necessarily asking the Sox to do any of this, just suggesting that these are the best, if not only, options to free up a significant enough amount of payroll to sign Oswalt.

    Looked at in total, you get Garza, Oswalt and Ludwick or Spillbourghs, along with a few lower level minor leaguers to bolster you farm system, and you stay under the tax threshold.  Your rotation is Lester, Garza, Buchholz, Oswalt and Bard, with Aceves, Padilla, Silva, Cook, Tazawa, Doubront, Miller and Wilson all there to cover the 6th and 7th starter spots.  Not bad at all.  You end up with Iggy at SS, reducing your offensive production, but really shoring up the leaky left side of the infield.  You get a L/R platoon in RF with Sweeney and the right-handed hitter you sign.  That should increase offensive production enough over last season, to compensate for the lost production of having Iggy in the lineup instead of Scutaro.  Something to consider.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from cgmiles75. Show cgmiles75's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Any proposal that includes trading Beckett needs to be immediately discarded. I get it, we're all mad about September but remember, what we're talking about here is how to remedy our lack of pitching depth. So let's not be ridiculous here.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    I'm going to save softy the time, and say "trade Ellsbury for prospects". There, it's out there now, don't we all feel better?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to save softy the time, and say "trade Ellsbury for prospects". There, it's out there now, don't we all feel better?
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    I think Softy is sticking to this: 'trade Ellsbury as part of a package for a superstar profile RH slugger.'
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of? : Lavarnway will not be the starting catcher for the Boston Red Sox this year. He needs a ton of work defensively. You mancrush is the inverse of what is happening with Softy and Ellsbury.
    Posted by BosoxJoe5[/QUOTE]

    I never said Lava would be the starting catcher in 2012. Ben wouldn;t have signed Shoppach if that were the case; he'd have signed a catcher who hits RHPs better than LHPs.

    It's not that I am 100% sure Lava will be great, but instead, it is based on how little I think of Salty. I do not see much of a step down on defense at all with Lava over Salty, but I do see a much higher upside offfensively, particularly vs LHPs.

    I do not see trading Salty as a big solution to our finances. He's only getting paid $2.5M. If by some chance we can get a very good starter and stay under the tax limit if we could free up $2.5M, then I'd think of trading Salty (if trading Scutty was not an option). 

    I have no "mancrush" on Lava. You must be confusing me with someone else, much like softlaw always does.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Your rotation is Lester, Garza, Buchholz, Oswalt and Bard, with Aceves, Padilla, Silva, Cook, Tazawa, Doubront, Miller and Wilson all there to cover the 6th and 7th starter spots.  Not bad at all.

    I'd rather have Beckett, even if he is still drinking in the clubhouse on his off days, vs Garza & Oswalt. 

    Maybe it's just me.

    Babe drank.

    Mickey drank.

    Beckett almost single-handedly won us a ring in 2007. That has to mitigate some of all this manushia over his attitude.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    I think trading for a pitcher would benefit the red sox more. They could trade Scutaro (1 year 6 mil) Youk (12 mil with 2013 option) and a prospect for Matt Cain (1 year 15 mil) of the Giants. They could use an offensively productive shortstop and Youk would be a huge upgrade at 1B and a prospect could get the deal done. Plus it saves 3 mil. And with that we have a solid 4 in the rotation with Bard, Aceves, Padilla, Cook, Silva and Doubront fighting for the 5th spot

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    It's not about the drinking for me.  Though I admit, I see a potential for clashing egos between Beckett and Bobby V. that would be avoided by a trade.  It is about getting your money's worth.  Beckett, if he has his best season, will maybe win 20 games and pitch 200 or so innings.

    Oswalt and Garza will easily win 20 games between them, and pitch more than 300 innings pitched, even if both have less than average years.  And the two together will earn about what Beckett will make.  If you can get Garza and a low-level prospect for Beckett and Ranaudo (in whom I have little faith, but Theo drafted and may have a soft spot for) without having to eat any of Beckett's contract, you do it, IMO. 

    I am not going to be disappointed if this does not happen.  I don't expect it to happen at all.  I just think that Beckett and his contract are the most plausible way to shed significant payroll, if that is the need or objective.  He has enough left in the tank to be of interest to other teams, and his contract is quite a hinderance, especially when combined with Lackey's, to improving the starting pitching, since he takes up such a big chunk of the starting rotation budget.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Cain would certainly be worth asking about, but Scoot, Youk and a prospect don't get that deal done.  Posey is expected to see more time at 1B this year and one of their top prospects is a 1B (Brandon Belt).  Cain would be about as easy as Oswalt to fit into payroll with an AAV of  $9.1M (3 years / $27.25M).
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    soxforlife,

    I would offer Ranaudo in that deal.  Don't know if SF would go for it, but it would help them out.  I would consider it, too, but then you have the bigger issue of replacing the entire left side of our IF.  I like the idea of Iggy and Middlebrooks on the left side of the infield, defensively.  Offensively, this could be a disaster.  And I do not see the Sox doing it at all.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]Any proposal that includes trading Beckett needs to be immediately discarded. I get it, we're all mad about September but remember, what we're talking about here is how to remedy our lack of pitching depth. So let's not be ridiculous here.
    Posted by cgmiles75[/QUOTE]

    If trading Beckett nets a solid starter and allows you to sign Oswalt, you are adressing the pitching depth issue.  Beckett will not start as many games, or pitch as many innings, nor win as many games, as Garza and Oswalt would.  And this has nothing to do with September.  It is just my trying to imagine how to afford Oswalt without going over the tax threshold.

    If there is a trade that can net a starter as good as Garza without giving up Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Barnes, Boegarts and Bradley, while staying under the tax threshold AND keeping Beckett, then that would be great.  Do that instead of signing Oswalt.  Just not sure that trade is out there.  Meanwhile, Oswalt will not be out there much longer.  My guess is he is gone by Friday of this week.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In response to "Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of? : If trading Beckett nets a solid starter and allows you to sign Oswalt, you are adressing the pitching depth issue.  Beckett will not start as many games, or pitch as many innings, nor win as many games, as Garza and Oswalt would.  And this has nothing to do with September.  It is just my trying to imagine how to afford Oswalt without going over the tax threshold. If there is a trade that can net a starter as good as Garza without giving up Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Barnes, Boegarts and Bradley, while staying under the tax threshold AND keeping Beckett, then that would be great.  Do that instead of signing Oswalt.  Just not sure that trade is out there.  Meanwhile, Oswalt will not be out there much longer.  My guess is he is gone by Friday of this week. Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE] Oswalt's options seem to be running low at the moment. His preference (Cards) are said to prefer him as a reliever at a much lower number, the Yankees are out, if the Rangers come to terms with Darvish by the Wednesday deadline, they're out, and that would leave the Sox, Phillies and maybe a sleeper team or two, but I don't see anyone giving him the rumored 8 million. There are also rumors he will consider retirement...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    We'll see.  I would be shocked by retirement.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Trade Scutaro.  I've been saying it for 3 months now.

    Atthis point, only maybe Colorado and St. Louis might be interested.  And I expect Colorado might be a bit more interested, since they might not mind getting an actual 2B while dumping $4.75mill worth of Jason Hammel.

    This does work for Boston, since Hammel's AAV is closer to $1.8mill.  He still frees up a good chunk to get under the luxury tax threshhold.

    Just don't let him pitch.  At least not as a starter.

    How much more cash do they need to free up?  Sign Ortiz to a 2 year $20mill deal and free up $4-5mill more in AAV.

    That ought to be enough to squeeze Oswalt in.  Let's just hope no one gets hurt before July 31. 

    Of 2013...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Nice to see the boston Red Sox acting like they're the Pittsburgh Pirates.
    I'm sure all Sox fans will be thrilled at the money saving dumpster diving, and not having to pay any luxury tax, when they're in 3rd or 4th place in August.
    This team has not improved one iota, and crying poormouth makes them even less likeable than last season.
    I wonder how long the phony attendence streak will hold up?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]Nice to see the boston Red Sox acting like they're the Pittsburgh Pirates. I'm sure all Sox fans will be thrilled at the money saving dumpster diving, and not having to pay any luxury tax, when they're in 3rd or 4th place in August. This team has not improved one iota, and crying poormouth makes them even less likeable than last season. I wonder how long the phony attendence streak will hold up?
    Posted by GhostofTito[/QUOTE]

    I don't think they're acting like the Pirates or crying poormouth.  I think they've got themselves into a box financially and personnel-wise, because of Dice-K, Lackey, Crawford, and maybe above all, a lack of good pitching coming up from the farm system.

    I think Cherington is working hard and I see signs of a good GM there.  It's unfortunate for him that he doesn't have much cash to work with.

    I do get your point about fans being unhappy and I think the FO knows that.  I'm pretty sure that one way or another they will acquire a 'name' starting pitcher. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Free up money, this is Boston not Tampa. Want to be under cap for 2014 most important. Oswalt 1 yr all his potential landing spots are drying up Rangers signed Darvish / Yanks Kuroda/Pineda no need. St.Louis still a possibility but did sign Beltran but $ left from not signing Pujols, but may want to save for another hitter? Oswalt 1 yr [8-9 mil for 25+ starts] incentive laden deal based on starts. Pay the tax and be done w/ it, don't start trading players and create holes elsewhere to fill another.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]Free up money, this is Boston not Tampa. Want to be under cap for 2014 most important. Oswalt 1 yr all his potential landing spots are drying up Rangers signed Darvish / Yanks Kuroda/Pineda no need. St.Louis still a possibility but did sign Beltran but $ left from not signing Pujols, but may want to save for another hitter? Oswalt 1 yr [8-9 mil for 25+ starts] incentive laden deal based on starts. Pay the tax and be done w/ it, don't start trading players and create holes elsewhere to fill another.
    Posted by garyhow[/QUOTE]

    +1
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of? : Oswalt is far from garbage.  His career numbers are among the best of all active pitchers.  Health concerns are why he's still out there.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    That is correct about that his health concerns are the main reason why he is still out there.  If we look at his last three years stats, he havent pitched more than 23 games a season.  Also his asking price is still ridiculous too high.  Since Kuroda signed with the Yankees for 10 million dollars a year not too long ago, and now Oswalt is not going to drop his price.

    Well, I know for sure that no one isnt going to sign him for 8 million a year.  I dont want to see Boston to just trade someone and free up the payroll money to sign him for 8 million dollars a year.  Boston can just wait and make him to drop the price.  He could sign elsewhere.  But that is not going to be a huge loss!!!   Boston can just go after someone else like Haren or Webb for a cheaper price.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of? : That is correct about that his health concerns are the main reason why he is still out there.  If we look at his last three years stats, he havent pitched more than 23 games a season.  Also his asking price is still ridiculous too high.  Since Kuroda signed with the Yankees for 10 million dollars a year not too long ago, and now Oswalt is not going to drop his price.  
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    Oswalt made 30 starts in 2009 and 32 starts in 2010 (211 innings), between Houston and Philly.  2011 was the first year since 2003 he had less than 30 starts.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]Jenks to the Cubs as Theo comp.  I'd also be open to dealing Scoot. Not sure why you included Miller and Salty on this list, combined they're only making $3.5M.  
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    Trade Scoot and who plays shortstop, Manny !!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of? : clearly it must be a different oswalt ;-) sox don't need to free up payroll or get rid of anyone to sign Oswalt John henry needs to acknowledge that having a budget is fine but once 2/5 of your rotation  & $ 25mill goes on the DL for the yr the budget must be adjusted if some of that money doesn't need to be replaced why ok it being spent in the 1st place
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    I agree totally. I have argued that I understand why the Sox would want to reset the Luxury Tax by being under this year, but it looks like even without signing a Bonfide starter like Oswalt, they may break through the Cap anyway this year, with Potentially big Arb awards for Ortiz and Ellsbury.....and then the fact that at some point during the season you always have to add some piece or another. If they may break the cap anyway, even if only by 1MM.....then the reset doesnt happen and now it is only costing you $ for this year to go over....and this ownership should not be quibbling about the difference between a $171MM and a $180MM dollar payroll cost. Not if that difference is what keeps you competetive against your main rivals and not when you own a team that has about 300MM in revenue.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Need to free up payroll to sign Oswalt, who do they get rid of?

    Nice to see the boston Red Sox acting like they're the Pittsburgh Pirates.

    I wasn't aware of pittsburgh extending anyone in April at over $20M/yr. Maybe I missed something. (The money spent then did not count on the 2011 tax limit: it does now. That's where Drew and papelbon's money went. (AGon and Buch extensions)

    We've been very near the cap for several seasons now, this policy is not new, except that we are trying to stay just under the cap instead of just over it. The differential is not great.

    Think of it this way. We just signed AGon to a long-term contract and extended buch. If it had happened this January, would it have made you feel any better?
     
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