NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Another two or three years like this one, Ellsbury could qualify as a super star. If the standards for that distinction are lowered, he might even qualify on the basis of a single year's performance. Or the whole process could be simplified by inventing a category called "Super Stars of the Year."  

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Brady was juiced up - big time
     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Ellsbury is a likely PED case, as was Erstad.
     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]Brady was juiced up - big time
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    "juiced" for only one year? Maybe. I like Elles and I am unhappy the Sox chose to use Elles money to sign Crawford. However you shoulf expect Elles to tail off on averages going forward. Doesn't mean he won't be excellent.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Boom's original statement that "Bautista looks so tainted" came from him directly not from sportswriters, and can be taken to mean only "looks so tainted" to me. IMO, Boom never made a case for the "taint" when competing explanations are available. Then, when challenged, he invoked support from writers to shift the topic into the larger zone of "suspicions." Then he harped on the fact that suspicions exist, basically ignoring, until challenged, the fact that robust responses to those suspicions have been mounted by many writers. Boon left a description of the issue incomplete, to say the least. 
    Quite apart from the distance between "looks so tainted," in Boom's personal phrase, to the fact of suspicions generally, there is, IMO, an even more important issue. 
    My principle is that all facts, even assuming they can be established as  facts, are not fit for expression in all contexts, in this case the MVP award. The mere existence of a fact does not automatically qualify it for expression. ( "All the news that's fit to print," as the NY Times slogan goes, even if the Times does not always abide by it own governing principle. ) Judgment should come into play. That goes double when a person's reputation is at stake.  What's more, if the fact of suspicions is to be reported at all, it should be lodged in a statement that takes account of all facts relevant to the issue. The Toronto writers tried to do that, one more even-handedly than the other. So did many of the other writers on the matter.
    Boom didn't even come close to that kind of ethical care in his original statement.  That is the one to which I responded.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]

    That MVP year Jimmy Rollins had was incredible 38 doubles, 30 HR and 20 Triples, 41 steals. Playing SS. 88 XBH. The pitching bias against starters in the mvp ballot will preclude Verlander IMO. Granderson's defense isn't in the same league as Ellsbury's this year.

    See: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/curtis-grandersons-defense-and-his-mvp-prospects/

    I think the competition is between Bautista and Ellsbury at this point. Bautista looks so tainted that I think he might not get some votes for that reason alone. He doesn't play for a contender and Toronto is a launching pad. And his defense isn't comparable to Ellsbury's this year. If the vote happened right now, I think it's Ellsbury!

    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Does the above post warrant 2 pages of attacks? I didn't say he was on PEDS but there sure are a lot of people who think he might be. I gave evidence of many sportswriters and bloggers who have discussed the issue. i guess it's ok for them but I can't even allude to it. It was in context of the MVP vote and has been discussed even by the toronto sportswriters, as I gave proof of earlier. It is all over baseball as common knowledge that he is under suspicion. Is Barry Bonds under suspicion? How about Sammy Sosa? Is anybody under suspicion? Expitch is going to be real busy filing statements of principle with hundreds of sportswriters across the US.

    I could have phrased it better. I guess I'll have to check with my publisher "expitch" whose apparently been looking for months to find something to find fault with. The season is almost over. You accomplished your goal expitch. You are just a first class contributor here. 2 pages of insight.
     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    I love the clown who want to take advantage of Ellsbury's super season, to trade him to make room for the biggest bust ever, Crawful, to take over the leadoff spot. This in order to justify his insane contract.
    Very odd logic, to say the least.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter! : Does the above post warrant 2 pages of attacks? I didn't say he was on PEDS but there sure are a lot of people who think he might be. I gave evidence of many sportswriters and bloggers who have discussed the issue. i guess it's ok for them but I can't even allude to it. It was in context of the MVP vote and has been discussed even by the toronto sportswriters, as I gave proof of earlier. It is all over baseball as common knowledge that he is under suspicion. Is Barry Bonds under suspicion? How about Sammy Sosa? Is anybody under suspicion? Expitch is going to be real busy filing statements of principle with hundreds of sportswriters across the US. I could have phrased it better. I guess I'll have to check with my publisher "expitch" whose apparently been looking for months to find something to find fault with. The season is almost over. You accomplished your goal expitch. You are just a first class contributor here. 2 pages of insight.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    Your remark, "I could have phrased it better," is the  understatement of the month on this board. Maybe we should add that award to "Super Star of the Year."  
    What you said in the original post was not a matter of phrasing, which refers to a statement that could have been expressed better. It was a matter of flat statement. YOU declared in your own person that Bautista is "so tainted...." 
    Don't blame others if your sloppy language and overstatement invite a calling out. And if on a topic like this you lead that bald remark to stand, with all its implications, without a context. So, no, it wasn't OK for you to allude to the controversy, as you actually did.
    "Looking for months to find something to disagree with" will serve here as yet another example of your tendency to assign motive carelessly and to resort to inflated verbiage. Truth is, I often agree with what you say or think it reasonable. Sometimes I don't. Why haven't I used one of those occasions to find fault during all those months, presumably going back to the Navarro business?  Don't flatter yourself to think that I've been waiting in the weeds to pounce on you. Wow, what self-regard.
    I found fault on this issue for reasons that I given amply.
    In this post, you deteriorate into infantile sarcasm at the end. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter! : Your remark, "I could have phrased it better," is the  understatement of the month on this board. Maybe we should add that award to "Super Star of the Year."   What you said in the original post was not a matter of phrasing, which refers to a statement that could have been expressed better. It was a matter of flat statement. YOU declared in your own person that Bautista is "so tainted...."  Don't blame others if your sloppy language and overstatement invite a calling out. And if on a topic like this you lead that bald remark to stand, with all its implications, without a context. So, no, it wasn't OK for you to allude to the controversy, as you actually did. "Looking for months to find something to disagree with" will serve here as yet another example of your tendency to assign motive carelessly and to resort to inflated verbiage. Truth is, I often agree with what you say or think it reasonable. Sometimes I don't. Why haven't I used one of those occasions to find fault during all those months, presumably going back to the Navarro business?  Don't flatter yourself to think that I've been waiting in the weeds to pounce on you. Wow, what self-regard. I found fault on this issue  for reasons that I given amply. In this post, you deteriorate into infantile sarcasm at the end. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]
    A person who uses terms like "stupidest" and "dumb" should at least hesitate before accusing another person of insulting him. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter! : A person who uses terms like "stupidest" and "dumb" should at least hesitate before accusing another person of insulting him. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    OK, everyone. Expitch is insulted or disagrees with my statements that Jose Bautista is suspected by many sports writers and fans as being potentially on PEDS. 10 pages of Google listings wasn't enough to show proof that he is in fact suspected by many of using PEDS. When someone doesn't have the apparent reading comprehension to understand 10 pages of Google postings corroborating my statement, what more can one do? A news report from one of his own Toronto beat writers discussing the subject wasn't enough. The fact that he went from zero to to superstar HR hitter in one year wasn't enough, nor that he was in his contract year at the time nor that he was from the PED capital of the world, the Dominican Republic. We all should just assume that he is clean because we don't want to upset our little pea brained buddy expitch. He might call us out for stating the obvious.

    I don't call people dumb or ignorant unless they have a body of work here that proves it to be obvious. I commented IN THE CONTEXT OF THE MVP VOTE that some sports writers may not vote for him for mvp because of those suspicions. Everyone here knows he has been under suspicion for over a year, except possibly you expitch. Thanks again for messing up what was a good thread long ago.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter! : OK, everyone. Expitch is insulted or disagrees with my statements that Jose Bautista is suspected by many sports writers and fans as being potentially on PEDS. 10 pages of Google listings wasn't enough to show proof that he is in fact suspected by many of using PEDS. When someone doesn't have the apparent reading comprehension to understand 10 pages of Google postings corroborating my statement, what more can one do? A news report from one of his own Toronto beat writers discussing the subject wasn't enough. The fact that he went from zero to to superstar HR hitter in one year wasn't enough, nor that he was in his contract year at the time nor that he was from the PED capital of the world, the Dominican Republic. We all should just assume that he is clean because we don't want to upset our little pea brained buddy expitch. He might call us out for stating the obvious. I don't call people dumb or ignorant unless they have a body of work here that proves it to be obvious. I commented IN THE CONTEXT OF THE MVP VOTE that some sports writers may not vote for him for mvp because of those suspicions. Everyone here knows he has been under suspicion for over a year, except possibly you expitch. Thanks again for messing up what was a good thread long ago.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    Phooey. You asked for trouble in your original post, and you got it. That's the long and short of it.
    Gee, I didn't know that one could have a "body of work" on a forum  (damn those nuances ) and end up a "pea brain" in the bargain. But if would like to think that what you post here constitutes a "body of work," go ahead and revel in the label.
    If you could read -- I don't expect you to be able to write, based on your "body of work" -- you would know that I never stated or implied that Bautista is "innocent."  I have said that the case against him is not compelling, which means, as of now, "not guilty."  There's another distinction -- among many -- you don't seem to grasp. 
    This is starting to be no fun. You are a rhetorical clay pigeon.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    I recommend, again, that Boom take Moon's advice, or risk apoplexy.
     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter! : Phooey. You asked for trouble in your original post, and you got it. That's the long and short of it. Gee, I didn't know that one could have a "body of work" on a forum  (damn those nuances ) and end up a "pea brain" in the bargain. But if would like to think that what you post here constitutes a "body of work," go ahead and revel in the label. If you could read -- I don't expect you to be able to write, based on your "body of work" -- you would know that I never stated or implied that Bautista is "innocent."  I have said that the case against him is not compelling, which means, as of now, "not guilty."  There's another distinction -- among many -- you don't seem to grasp.  This is starting to be no fun. You are a rhetorical clay pigeon.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Oh, just maybe the case is more compelling than you realize:

    1) He went from never hitting more than 16-17 HR per year to 54 last year. Now he is leading the league in HR again.
     
    2) Pitchers appear to have decided not to even throw to him this year so he started putting up Bonds type OBP numbers ( sound familiar ). He became off the charts good. His best OBP year ever before the age of 28 was .339. This year it is currently a league leading .449. 

    3) He started doing it at around age 29, after being a nobody his entire career.

    4) He was in his first major contract year. It was a $1-2 mil per year salary and grow old or it was a once in a lifetime chance for a $15-$16 mil per year salary depending upon how many PEDS he potentially took. 

    5) He is Dominican. He has a similar background to other Dominican players; such as David Ortiz, Sammy Sosa, Vlady Guerrero, Alphonso Soriano, Manny Ramirez, Arod, Robinson Cano, Adrian Beltre, Bartol Colon ( another miracle man this year ), Nelson Cruz ( mr hamstring pull himself, amazing career parallel BTW...zero to hero at age 28 ), Miguel Tejeda, Albert Pujols, Hanley Ramirez...etc. If you are a major power hitter in mlb, there is a very good chance you are from the DR. Then again, PEDS like steroids are still legal in the DR!

    6) He is even from Santo Domingo itself, home of that Gym owned by the guy who is banned from baseball. The one Ortiz said everyone there hangs out at. This one:


    Here is an excellent link regarding steroid use in the DR:


    A relevant quote from that piece:

    Dominican Baseball and Steroids 
    Though it is difficult to ascertain exactly when the boom of steroid use among Dominican players began, steroid use amongst ballplayers from the Dominican Republic has been a major issue within Major League Baseball. According to a report by writer Tom Fish, over half of all players (57%) who tested positive for steroid usage were from the Dominican Republic. Accordingly, the DR leads the baseball world in suspended performance-enhancing drug users. Fish writes that “more than half of all pro baseball players who tested positive since the start of the 2005 season -- 169 of 289, or 58.5 percent -- hail from the Dominican Republic"

    EXPITCH...the above is not compelling? Get real. He should not even be suspected right. He's obviously Mr. Clean.


     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Not the slightest indication he is on PEDs right Expitch? I said he was under suspicion and he clearly is, by most knowledgeable observers of the sport. He is tainted by suspicion. It's obvious. If you don't see that from the above indicators what does that say about you Pollyanna?
     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Here is an ESPN article titled: 

    Steroid problem reaches critical mass in the D.R.



    Here is one from NPR. Man, those guys must be irresponsible also huh:


    Here is a report on PED use in the DR from a Doctor at the University of Iowa, saying HGH is readily available in the DR, often even in "bodegas" i.e. general stores:


    The DR is one of the PED capitals of the world. No one wants to talk about it but the evidence is clear.
     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]Not the slightest indication he is on PEDs right Expitch? I said he was under suspicion and he clearly is, by most knowledgeable observers of the sport. He is tainted by suspicion. It's obvious. If you don't see that from the above indicators what does that say about you Pollyanna?
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    There you go again. I never said that there isn't "the slightest indication." I do wish you'd pay attention.  What it says about me is that I am loathe to traffic in guilt by association and circumstantial evidence to support such a serious change when at least one other reasonable explanation lies to hand. ( See Harness, and several of the writers you sent me too. ) What your posts say about you is that you've become hysterical on the subject. Obsessed with it. Driven almost cuckoo by it, as continually evidenced by your manner of expression.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]Here is an ESPN article titled:  Steroid problem reaches critical mass in the D.R. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2763194 Here is one from NPR. Man, those guys must be irresponsible also huh: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101379382 Here is a report on PED use in the DR from a Doctor at the University of Iowa, saying HGH is readily available in the DR, often even in "bodegas" i.e. general stores: http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2009/02/hgh-a-growth-industry-in-the-dominican-republic.html The DR is one of the PED capitals of the world. No one wants to talk about it but the evidence is clear.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    Thanks for sending me to the doctor's article. I read it carefully, and took note of the fact that he did not state or strongly imply that all ballplayers from the Dominican should automatically be placed under suspicion. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter! : Phooey. You asked for trouble in your original post, and you got it. That's the long and short of it. Gee, I didn't know that one could have a "body of work" on a forum  (damn those nuances ) and end up a "pea brain" in the bargain. But if would like to think that what you post here constitutes a "body of work," go ahead and revel in the label. If you could read -- I don't expect you to be able to write, based on your "body of work" -- you would know that I never stated or implied that Bautista is "innocent."  I have said that the case against him is not compelling, which means, as of now, "not guilty."  There's another distinction -- among many -- you don't seem to grasp.  This is starting to be no fun. You are a rhetorical clay pigeon.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Boom, in this business of argument, you're a patsy. A nasty one, at that.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    I'm hanging out in my computer room, listening to Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus", putting away books and stuff and toying with you Pollyanna.

    If I'm going to waste time, I'm glad it's with my new pal Pollyanna.

    You get what you sow expitch. You deserve everything I've thrown at you.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    I try to be a responsible poster and a quality poster. You are about as unimpressive as they come. At this point, I feel nasty. And I have every reason to feel that way. Are you a responsible poster Expitch? Was this a good discussion?

    "Time loves a hero".

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Boom is it not safe to say that Elles more or less went from zero to superstar? Lets face it even the front office as of January 1, 2011 were leaning toward Elles never reaching his ability.


     
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    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Until 2010 Bautista who was then 29 years old only played one full season in the majors and that was still ony 142 games (not really all that full); basically he averaged about 115 games and 15 homers a year until 2010.

    Ellesbury who already had 2 full seasons under his belt in which he had hit no more than 9 homers, is now 27 years old and has blown away his offensive averages.

    I don't for one minute think Elles has done anything funny, but how can anyone not be more shocked by Elles sudden home run and doubles explosion? Jose in all those -120 game seasons hit a fair number of homers for a part-time player.

    Looks far more astonishing on Elles than Jose. 

    Boom maybe you should look at Ortiz if you want to compare hitters of like-caliber. His early years are not unlike Bautista's at all.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: NEWS FLASH - In case you haven't noticed Ellsbury is having one of the greatest years ever for a lead off batter!

    Fact is, none of these players (Bautista/Jake/Papi) have been proven cheats. None of them. Any accusation to the contrary w/o proof is slander.

    We can sit at our keyboards and suspect anyone we choose to suspect, but it means nothing. Even if it's printed a million times in the press, unless someone supplies proof, it's all BS. Press hyperbole. Nothing more.

    FWIW, Boom has backed up his position of suspicion.
    Ex-Pitch has made a clear point in that varying degrees of what might constitute as much  is in totality finger-pointing with no concrete evidence to back up any or all accusations. 

    I personally don't like the label guilty by association, which is why I detest Pike's act on this board. If one is gonna make an allusion of drug-taking, I think it's on the accuser to either substantiate it or take the responsibility for the consequences.

    Fans have a perfect right to be very suspicious of the steroid landscape. Canseco went thru the ringer before his accusations was vindicated. But he had proof.
    We as fans don't. And as tempting as it is to put a noose around a guilty appearance, it's irresponsible...and the innocent suffer as a result.
     

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