no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gracers1225. Show Gracers1225's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 1:11 PM EST

    Who was the Cardinals closer last year? Who played the Giants outfield positions the year before?  You do not need an All Star at every position and the only way for a player to get a name for themself.....is......to......play and be given the opportunity.  What we have here is one SPOILED NATION!

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 1:29 PM EST

    It's the Yankees fault for ruining baseball and now we are the Yankees. Cry
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 1:40 PM EST

    In response to "Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?":
    Who was the Cardinals closer last year? Who played the Giants outfield positions the year before?  You do not need an All Star at every position and the only way for a player to get a name for themself.....is......to......play and be given the opportunity.  What we have here is one SPOILED NATION! Posted by Gracers1225
    Great post...If any Sox fan who died before '04 could see what "Reason nation" has become, they'd throw up in their mouth. I realize some posters are trolls, some just like to complain by nature, some won their fantasy baseball league and now think they have a clue, and many just have no idea how a baseball operation works yet question every Front Office transaction that isn't shiny. Pathetic...
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 2:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    In response to "Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?": Great post...If any Sox fan who died before '04 could see what "Reason nation" has become, they'd throw up in their mouth. I realize some posters are trolls, some just like to complain by nature, some won their fantasy baseball league and now think they have a clue, and many just have no idea how a baseball operation works yet question every Front Office transaction that isn't shiny. Pathetic...
    Posted by jasko2248


    Ahhh, 2004.  Back when we started Millar, Bellhorn, Reese, Kapler, with a bench of Belli, and some kid from AAA famous for walks.  With our/ SPs crap pile pickups named Wake and Arroyo.

    That team needs a lot more stars if they want any shot at making the playoffs. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 2:54 PM EST

    In response to "Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?":
    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : Ahhh, 2004.  Back when we started Millar, Bellhorn, Reese, Kapler, with a bench of Belli, and some kid from AAA famous for walks.  With our/ SPs crap pile pickups named Wake and Arroyo. That team needs a lot more stars if they want any shot at making the playoffs.  Posted by Joebreidey
    Lol, Joe...maybe that team should trade one of their superstars to get a couple of guys known for their glove work..
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gracers1225. Show Gracers1225's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 3:23 PM EST

    I can honestly say that 'true' Sox fans still relish the 2004 series and really are satisfied.  Don't get me wrong, I want to see them win every single year but a complete void was filled that year and any other World Series is just icing.  We are fans of the best organization in any sport and I truly believe that.  Red Sox Nation (and I hate that) are a bunch of complainers and bandwagon fans that really never felt the heartache prior to the 2004 series.  If they were fans prior......they just became spoiled and forgot that sick feeling year in and year out.  2004 series...yep...I am still good!
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 3:35 PM EST

    Is this from that book "Things that losers Say"? Haha! Kidding, but couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. Winning organizations strive for victory each and every season. Of course we're happy for victories past, but it's the continuing drive for success that motivates fans in all sports all over the world. Hope you agree! :-)




    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    I can honestly say that 'true' Sox fans still relish the 2004 series and really are satisfied.  Don't get me wrong, I want to see them win every single year but a complete void was filled that year and any other World Series is just icing.  We are fans of the best organization in any sport and I truly believe that.  Red Sox Nation (and I hate that) are a bunch of complainers and bandwagon fans that really never felt the heartache prior to the 2004 series.  If they were fans prior......they just became spoiled and forgot that sick feeling year in and year out.  2004 series...yep...I am still good!
    Posted by Gracers1225

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 3:48 PM EST

    Right.....Papi has to agree to the binding arbitration amount, or retire, OR sign a multi yr deal whose average salary lowers our luxury tax hit. Allowing Papi to agree to an arbiters likely $14 million salary for 2012 does the opposite of what we want. If we can extend the contract to 3yrs, we could then average it and come out to a lower amount annual average for tax purposes for this season. Plus it could be a bargain for us, as I think he's got 3 good yrs left.




    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : Papi has to agree to the binding arbitration amount ( 1 year deal) or retire.
    Posted by moonslav59

     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gracers1225. Show Gracers1225's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 3:50 PM EST

    I am not loser in any sense.  However, I do agree with you in that winning is very important.  I was simply saying that today's primary fan base is pretty damn spoiled and a complaining bunch of bandwagoners (not sure if that is a word).  I was also making an attempt to say that I still relish in past wins and their accomplishments but don't feel the world caving in our team when they don't win it all. A lot of this game is luck and timing.....we have very little of each in the past couple of years.  
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 5:07 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    I can honestly say that 'true' Sox fans still relish the 2004 series and really are satisfied.  Don't get me wrong, I want to see them win every single year but a complete void was filled that year and any other World Series is just icing.  We are fans of the best organization in any sport and I truly believe that.  Red Sox Nation (and I hate that) are a bunch of complainers and bandwagon fans that really never felt the heartache prior to the 2004 series.  If they were fans prior......they just became spoiled and forgot that sick feeling year in and year out.  2004 series...yep...I am still good!
    Posted by Gracers1225


    Prior to new management taking over in 2003, the Red Sox had won 5 playoff games in 16 years.

    Prior to that, we had made the playoffs 4 times in 68 years.

    The structure has changed obviously, but we've won a lot more playoff games since 2003 than we did in the previous 85 years.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 5:07 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    Who was the Cardinals closer last year? Who played the Giants outfield positions the year before?  You do not need an All Star at every position and the only way for a player to get a name for themself.....is......to......play and be given the opportunity.  What we have here is one SPOILED NATION!
    Posted by Gracers1225


    I wouldn't mind the Red Sox landing that rightfielder this offseason.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 5:09 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    Is this from that book "Things that losers Say"? Haha! Kidding, but couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. Winning organizations strive for victory each and every season. Of course we're happy for victories past, but it's the continuing drive for success that motivates fans in all sports all over the world. Hope you agree! :-) In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? :
    Posted by Teakus


    You always want to win, but if you always want to be in a position to win, you need to be able to sacrifice a couple of wins this year for a whole bunch of wins in subsequent years.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 5:20 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    Right.....Papi has to agree to the binding arbitration amount, or retire, OR sign a multi yr deal whose average salary lowers our luxury tax hit. Allowing Papi to agree to an arbiters likely $14 million salary for 2012 does the opposite of what we want. If we can extend the contract to 3yrs, we could then average it and come out to a lower amount annual average for tax purposes for this season. Plus it could be a bargain for us, as I think he's got 3 good yrs left. In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? :
    Posted by Teakus


    It's a guessing whether he will continue to produce for three more years vs. getting a bargain contract for three years. These are the decisions that a GM has to make. The armchair contingent might be right but then we have only opinions and the FO probably has better information. But go ahead and act like you have superior knowjedge if it makes you feel better. Rant on.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxnutinMn. Show SoxnutinMn's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 6:26 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    In response to "Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?": You can't really explain it any better than that, Spaceman, but it still doesn't register with some. I haven't seen a deal made this off season (Trade or signing) that I wished the Sox would have made.
    Posted by jasko2248


    I didn't think Cherrington had to check in with you.    If the other 22,000 posts you've made are like this one, I'm glad I don't come on here much.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 10:17 PM EST

    no way papi stays productive for 3 more years. the most i would give him is 1 year plus a team option for a second year. 
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/24/2011 11:46 PM EST

    But isn't TEAKUS sure that Papi is good for another three years. He sounds completely confident and apparently guarantees it? You must give some credence to an armchair expert with such confidence  in himself. LOng live TEAKUS, the God of the absolute truth on RED SOX matters.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 12:27 AM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    In response to "Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?": Lol, Joe...maybe that team should trade one of their superstars to get a couple of guys known for their glove work..
    Posted by jasko2248

    We have a couple guys known for their "glove work" who may start in AAA (Iggy and Kalish).

     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 3:47 AM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : I just want smart decisions.  Speed means nothing to me.  I'd rather make a good deal for a #4 SP 3 weeks from now than make a bad deal for a #3 SP tomorrow.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    joe, missing a point. you are competing against other teams. getting it right and BEFORE THE OTHER TEAMS  is critical.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 8:58 AM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : joe, missing a point. you are competing against other teams. getting it right and BEFORE THE OTHER TEAMS  is critical.
    Posted by brdbreu


    Most teams who sign long term contracts for Free Agents at this time of year

    GET IT WRONG

    Look at all of the $$$$ that franchises have squandered on such contracts.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 10:41 AM EST

    In response to "Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?":
    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : We have a couple guys known for their "glove work" who may start in AAA (Iggy and Kalish). Posted by moonslav59
    Moon, I was talking about the Nomar trade in 04...
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SUZUKIGSXR. Show SUZUKIGSXR's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 1:36 PM EST

    If only the Sox could have been this patient, taken their time, and thought about it longer before signing John Lackey,Dice K, Crawford and Drew etc. I kind of like this approach for a change.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 1:42 PM EST

    Wow! To have such warm thoughts wafted my way on Christmas day...it just warms these bones Utester! Gracias hombre!! But while it's tempting to assign deific properties to my thoughts,ideas,and posts here, we must always remember I am, alas, but a man. As for your statement ..."But isn't TEAKUS sure that Papi is good for another three years. He sounds completely confident and apparently guarantees it?" . I must confess to some confusion. Did I guarantee something in this simple statement I made?   Let's compare it to what I actually said, shall we? "Plus it could be a bargain for us, as I think he's got 3 good yrs left."  Hmmm...I don't see any guarantees there. Do you Utester? Please tell me you weren't fibbing during the holiday season!! Well, I want you to know that I forgive you. :o)





    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    But isn't TEAKUS sure that Papi is good for another three years. He sounds completely confident and apparently guarantees it? You must give some credence to an armchair expert with such confidence  in himself. LOng live TEAKUS, the God of the absolute truth on RED SOX matters.
    Posted by UticaClub


     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 2:20 PM EST

    Teakus also claims that Papi could have been signed in October for two years at $10 mil. per year. He called the FO inept for not doing so. He was asked for the source of this information. The FO has decided to only sign Papi for one year. They have their reasons. Who am I to claim that they should sign him for three years. Forgive my impatience with those in the forum who feel as if the FO is wrong 99% of the time. Sorry to be so testy. Merry Christmas.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 2:28 PM EST

    Right.....Papi has to agree to the binding arbitration amount, or retire, OR sign a multi yr deal whose average salary lowers our luxury tax hit. Allowing Papi to agree to an arbiters likely $14 million salary for 2012 does the opposite of what we want. If we can extend the contract to 3yrs, we could then average it and come out to a lower amount annual average for tax purposes for this season. Plus it could be a bargain for us, as I think he's got 3 good yrs left.

    I'm not sure it's worth saving $2-4M on the cap this year and then have 2 more years of Papi on future payroll budgets. As you know, there will be more interleague play after 2012, and having Papi on the roster when playing in NL parks lessens his value. Also, if we ever make the WS in the next 3 years (all of ours hope), he sits in a few games. That lowers his value as well. The one position he plays (1B) is blocked by a superstar, so we basically have a DH who can only DH for 3 years. An argument can certainly be made to take the one year hit on the tax limit effect, and see what happenes next winter (offer arb again, sign him again, or let him walk with no comp).

    We have a lot of salary coming off the books next year, but having Papi on the "tax limit" AVV at about $10M for 2013 and 2014 might be worse than the benefit of having a lower tax amount for 2012.

    Salaries off the books for 2013:
    Dice-K:  $8.67M  (Contract average salary) 
    Jenks:   $6M
    Scutty:  $6M
    Shopp: $1.35M
    Total:   $22M

    (We will probably take Youk's option for 2013 at $13M rather than pay the $1M buyout)

    That's a nice amount to use to patch up some holes without really losing anything that valuable to our 2012 success (none of these guys are crucial).
    However, add $14M by losing Papi after 2012. We'd have $36M to spend on filling holes, including a new one at DH. I think taking the $13M option on Youk and making him the DH in 2013 makes more sense. When we play in a NL park, Youk can play 3B or 1B. That's a huge plus. Youk at DH, also allows us to not have to carry a back-up corner IF'er on the roster. Follow this chart below:

    ($36M spent in red)

    2013:
    SP Beckett
    SP Lester
    SP Buch
    SP $18M to Cain or other
    SP Bard or Aceves
    RP Aceves or Bard
    RP Melancon
    RP $5M to a FA RP
    RP $3M to a FA RP
    3-RP Morales/Doubront/Tazawa/Albers/Miller/Atchison/Bowden/Wilson/Ranaudo
    DH  Youkilis
    C  Salty
    C  Lavarnaway
    1B AGon
    2B Pedroia
    3B $6M to FA 3Bman (who can move to OF when Youk 3B plays in NL parks)
    SS Iggy
    SS Punto (UIF)
    UIF/OF Aviles
    LF Crawford
    CF Ellsbury
    RF $10M for FA RF'er
    2-OF Reddick/Kalish/Linares/DMac/Brentz/Jacobs/Bradley

    ** If Middlebrooks or Cecchini are ready for MLB by 2013, we could save the $6M spent on a 3B FA and spend huge on RF or Pitching or get a SS.

    ** If Reddick, Kalish or another OF'er show they are MLB ready by 2013, we could use the $10M spent there to get a supertar 3Bman, SS, or add to pitching depth.

    ** If Ranaudo, Barnes, Doubront, Tazawa, Bowden, and or Morales, etc... prove to be MLB ready and decent enough to trust to a major 2013 role, we could not spend as much on pitching and upgrade elsewhere.

    Now, plug in Papi at DH and have just $22M to fill the open slots:

    2013:
    SP Beckett
    SP Lester
    SP Buch
    SP $18M to Cain or other
    SP Bard or Aceves
    RP Aceves or Bard
    RP Melancon
    RP $2M to a FA RP
    RP $2M to a FA RP
    3-RP Morales/Doubront/Tazawa/Albers/Miller/Atchison/Bowden/Wilson/Ranaudo
    DH  Papi
    C  Salty
    C  Lavarnaway
    1B AGon
    2B Pedroia
    3B Youkilis
    SS Iggy
    SS Punto (UIF)
    UIF/OF Aviles
    LF Crawford
    CF Ellsbury
    RF Reddick/Kalish/Linares/DMac/Brentz/Jacobs/Bradley
    2-OF (2 from RF list)

    I think I'd rather take the $4M extra hit on the 2012 payroll budget, see how Papi does in 2012, and have much more options for 2013 and 2014.



     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    posted at 12/25/2011 4:00 PM EST

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    It is as if people have never experienced this strange and mysterious phenomenon called the off season.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Quite.

    Amazes the hang out of me ...

    Trips to the psychiatrists must be "in season"