no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

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    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]I can honestly say that 'true' Sox fans still relish the 2004 series and really are satisfied.  Don't get me wrong, I want to see them win every single year but a complete void was filled that year and any other World Series is just icing.  We are fans of the best organization in any sport and I truly believe that.  Red Sox Nation (and I hate that) are a bunch of complainers and bandwagon fans that really never felt the heartache prior to the 2004 series.  If they were fans prior......they just became spoiled and forgot that sick feeling year in and year out.  2004 series...yep...I am still good!
    Posted by Gracers1225[/QUOTE]


    A most excellent post.   Exceedingly well said with a tremendous perspective.

    :o)

    We loved the Sox before.  We revelled in 2004 ... in a way few can understand or appreciate. (If the Cubbies ever win, they will be on par or maybe better.) 2007 was that icing ... all the rest is gravy, gravy, gravy .....

    I'd like to win each year, of course.  But you said it very well.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : Prior to new management taking over in 2003, the Red Sox had won 5 playoff games in 16 years. Prior to that, we had made the playoffs 4 times in 68 years. The structure has changed obviously, but we've won a lot more playoff games since 2003 than we did in the previous 85 years.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Prior to 2004, I remember telling my friends and relatives that I'd sacrifice 10 years of last place finishes for just one ring. Do whatever it takes, go cheap for 5 years, spend big for one and win it, then go cheap for 5 more...fine with me....JUST WIN ONE RING!

    The frustration of coming so close so many years, and not so close so many more piled up. For some Sox fans who haven't been around for as long as some of us (me since 1971), maybe it's hard to truly feel the immense gratitude most of us long-timers felt in October 2004. It was amazing. Joy, jubilation, and relief from years of dejection. 

    Of course once we won the ring, my feeling about being OK to be terrible for 10 years vanished. I wanted more, but deep inside felt that 2004 was enough to last a lifetime. 2007 was a blessing and strengthened the feeling that perhaps we could keep winning every 2-5 years or so. We kept some strong teams "on paper", and were perhaps somewhat disappointing the last 4 years, but the 2 rings are still strongly implanted in my heart. There's just no way the "collapse" of 2011 rivals the "collapse of 1978", the heartbreaks of '75, '86 and '72. I wanted a ring and thought we were good enough to strongly contend for the 2011 Championship, but it just wasn't there. I'm not going to moan and cry about it. We played great for 4 months and horribly for 2. It was an exciting year to watch the Sox and baseball altogether. 

    I certainly want another ring, sooner rather than later, but am willing to not be locked into a "we better win next year or else" attitude. I see our chances being better in 2013 than 2012. I don't want to give up on 2012; I still think we are a top 7 team as is, and could get better with a couple minor moves, but I don't want to sacrifice the future to try and win it all in 2012 by over-reaching and making some bad long-term decisions for the sake of just giving us a slightly better chance in 2012. There are some strong teams lined up for 2012. We could spend $30-40M more this winter and still not be favorites.

    We spent a lot this April to keep us stronger for several more years by extending AGon and Buch. That money did not count towards the 2011 luxury tax limit, but will begin counting in 2012. That's where this winter's money went. Henry and Ben are not being "cheap", they spent a boatload of money to keep these two guys in Boston. Does anyone not want them here? 

    I think keeping under the cap makes sense this year. It will give us a great shot to remain competitive for years to come (including 2012). Plus, there's always July to make a big splash if it looks like we are a player away...

    We are nicely placed for the next 3-5 years. That's a nice Christmas present to me. Yes, I want a ring in 2012, but knowing we should have a good chance to win one over the next 5 years, is a pretty good feeling. Greed is not a virtue. Hope is.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thomasmtom. Show Thomasmtom's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    I fully realize that a number of $$$$$$$$ were spent the last two seasons on free agents.

    However, the Sox are lacking in major league ready prospects and have only two choices available to them if they want to improve this club. Sign free agents or trade away the few top prospects they have for Pitching. If they fail to do either before the season starts, let’s hope that they don’t make another July move for a rent a pitcher they could have signed now.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?


    Well said, Moon.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    There's just no way the "collapse" of 2011 rivals the "collapse of 1978", the heartbreaks of '75, '86 and '72. I wanted a ring and thought we were good enough to strongly contend for the 2011 Championship, but it just wasn't there. I'm not going to moan and cry about it. We played great for 4 months and horribly for 2. 

    Last year wasn't even close to the other years.  While I always assumed we'd make the playoffs, I also knew that we had virtually no shot in the playoffs with Beckett and Lester pitching like they did, with Buchholz out.  My assumption all along was to make the playoffs, and then rely on the big 3.  We probably needed all three, but you can by with 2.  With one, you're a long shot.  With one out and the other two stinking, we had almost no shot no matter what happened in the last few days.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : Prior to 2004, I remember telling my friends and relatives that I'd sacrifice 10 years of last place finishes for just one ring. Do whatever it takes, go cheap for 5 years, spend big for one and win it, then go cheap for 5 more...fine with me....JUST WIN ONE RING! The frustration of coming so close so many years, and not so close so many more piled up. For some Sox fans who haven't been around for as long as some of us (me since 1971), maybe it's hard to truly feel the immense gratitude most of us long-timers felt in October 2004. It was amazing. Joy, jubilation, and relief from years of dejection.  Of course once we won the ring, my feeling about being OK to be terrible for 10 years vanished. I wanted more, but deep inside felt that 2004 was enough to last a lifetime. 2007 was a blessing and strengthened the feeling that perhaps we could keep winning every 2-5 years or so. We kept some strong teams "on paper", and were perhaps somewhat disappointing the last 4 years, but the 2 rings are still strongly implanted in my heart. There's just no way the "collapse" of 2011 rivals the "collapse of 1978", the heartbreaks of '75, '86 and '72. I wanted a ring and thought we were good enough to strongly contend for the 2011 Championship, but it just wasn't there. I'm not going to moan and cry about it. We played great for 4 months and horribly for 2. It was an exciting year to watch the Sox and baseball altogether.  I certainly want another ring, sooner rather than later, but am willing to not be locked into a "we better win next year or else" attitude. I see our chances being better in 2013 than 2012. I don't want to give up on 2012; I still think we are a top 7 team as is, and could get better with a couple minor moves, but I don't want to sacrifice the future to try and win it all in 2012 by over-reaching and making some bad long-term decisions for the sake of just giving us a slightly better chance in 2012. There are some strong teams lined up for 2012. We could spend $30-40M more this winter and still not be favorites. We spent a lot this April to keep us stronger for several more years by extending AGon and Buch. That money did not count towards the 2011 luxury tax limit, but will begin counting in 2012. That's where this winter's money went. Henry and Ben are not being "cheap", they spent a boatload of money to keep these two guys in Boston. Does anyone not want them here?  I think keeping under the cap makes sense this year. It will give us a great shot to remain competitive for years to come (including 2012). Plus, there's always July to make a big splash if it looks like we are a player away... We are nicely placed for the next 3-5 years. That's a nice Christmas present to me. Yes, I want a ring in 2012, but knowing we should have a good chance to win one over the next 5 years, is a pretty good feeling. Greed is not a virtue. Hope is.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    That was a beautiful post, Moon. And I agree, we may not have won last season, but there were a lot of great games. Even some the Sox weren't in. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    There's just no way the "collapse" of 2011 rivals the "collapse of 1978", the heartbreaks of '75, '86 and '72. I wanted a ring and thought we were good enough to strongly contend for the 2011 Championship, but it just wasn't there. I'm not going to moan and cry about it. We played great for 4 months and horribly for 2. 

    Last year wasn't even close to the other years.  While I always assumed we'd make the playoffs, I also knew that we had virtually no shot in the playoffs with Beckett and Lester pitching like they did, with Buchholz out.  My assumption all along was to make the playoffs, and then rely on the big 3.  We probably needed all three, but you can by with 2.  With one, you're a long shot.  With one out and the other two stinking, we had almost no shot no matter what happened in the last few days.

    I disagree. Once in, anyone has a shot. I know we were not favorites, but there was always the hope that Beckett and lester got back on track for about 5 starts. Who gave StL any shot at all, especially after Wainwright went down.

    My point was more about how I felt about the collapse. While I did think if we made the playoffs we had a chance (small as it would have been), the frustration level in 2011 was so much lower than pre-2004. Once we got the ring(s), I can never be as dissapointed as I was beforehand.

    I'm happy being a top 7 team in 2012. I think we have a chance to win it all in '12, and probably a better chance in '13. I like our future beyond 2013 as well.

    Merry Christmas!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING? : That was a beautiful post, Moon. And I agree, we may not have won last season, but there were a lot of great games. Even some the Sox weren't in. 
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Thanks, kim. Being a Sox fan is about as exciting as it gets... some highs... some lows, but always lots of action.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gracers1225. Show Gracers1225's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    What I have realized from being in the Navy for 12+ years and enduring an array of different leadership is that people will follow what the leader allows and how the leader leads.  This is not to take away from what Francona has done but what he lost in the last 3+ years.  I give my Sailors 'slack' but never enough that will hinder their performance or become a detriment to the commands mission.  The issue with the Red Sox IS NOT lack of talent and it is not who is playing right field or closing each game; it is that they hung themselves through complacency, unguided comfort, bad luck and a hot team coming from behind.  The RED SOX need the ‘dirt dog’ mentality and going into the season as the underdog…….that is what we are good at! Remember, the season does not start tomorrow!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]What I have realized from being in the Navy for 12+ years and enduring an array of different leadership is that people will follow what the leader allows and how the leader leads.  This is not to take away from what Francona has done but what he lost in the last 3+ years.  I give my Sailors 'slack' but never enough that will hinder their performance or become a detriment to the commands mission.  The issue with the Red Sox IS NOT lack of talent and it is not who is playing right field or closing each game; it is that they hung themselves through complacency, unguided comfort, bad luck and a hot team coming from behind.   The RED SOX need the ‘dirt dog’ mentality and going into the season as the underdog…….that is what we are good at! Remember, the season does not start tomorrow!
    Posted by Gracers1225[/QUOTE]

    And, what if all 30 teams have great leadership and a "dirtdog" mentality? Do all 30 teams win a ring? When 29 don't, do 29 fan bases invent psychological babble to explain away their losses? After all, it can't be because of injuries, other teams having more healthy talent, or any other of several other legitimate reasons, the Sox must have lost because they lost their way and went soft.  That way, it's all so easy to explain away why the highly skilled team we love and root for ended up losing in a bad way. We rooted for the most highly skilled and best team. There's just no way we shouldn't have won, except for "complacency".

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]What I have realized from being in the Navy for 12+ years and enduring an array of different leadership is that people will follow what the leader allows and how the leader leads.  This is not to take away from what Francona has done but what he lost in the last 3+ years.  I give my Sailors 'slack' but never enough that will hinder their performance or become a detriment to the commands mission.  The issue with the Red Sox IS NOT lack of talent and it is not who is playing right field or closing each game; it is that they hung themselves through complacency, unguided comfort, bad luck and a hot team coming from behind.   The RED SOX need the ‘dirt dog’ mentality and going into the season as the underdog…….that is what we are good at! Remember, the season does not start tomorrow!
    Posted by Gracers1225[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes I find it amusing when I think how sports fans forget what a big deal a little luck is.  In 2004, if Roberts is called out at 2nd (worse calls have been made against the Sox in the post season), if a Yankee ball doesnt bounce oddly in the stands for a ground rule double, if several other little things dont go JUST right... the Sox are "losers" and Tito never has his legendary career.

    If the Bruins had one bounce go the wrong way in OT in Game 7 against Montreal last year... the cult hero Tim Thomas, the Gerius Claude Julien and the Architect Peter Chiarelli are all applying for jobs in the 2011 off season.  Now they are set for life.

    If the Sox in Game 162 last year can hold a 2 run lead in the 9th behind a closer that everyone thinks losing equates to Armaggeddon, they make the playoffs and none of this garbage is even discussed, and they still have Tito and Theo in charge. And no one in their right mind would have bet 1 penny on the Cardinals' chance at a WS win in September 2011.

    So, take a breath and just sign on for the ride...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    Posters read the Sunday Globe, there are tons of options ou there for 4th and/or 5th starters, bullpen depth, closers and OF depth.  They are waiting to see who will fall to them.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rgmfick. Show rgmfick's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    Let's not presume, should wait, at least until the team leaves Ft. Myers for the regular season.  In past seasons, many transactions have happened between Christmas and the start of the season.  Also, IMHO, it often takes more time with a somewhat established roster.  Most of us fans could write out a lineup right now for the batting order and at least for the the first 3 starting, maybe first 5, starting pitchers.  When a team is that set, it is much more important to see how things happen than just do transactions out of panic.  We have LF, CF, 3B, SS, 2B, 1B, 3 x Cs, and 6 starting pitchers, bullpen is being worked but that is almost always the case, and even though Papelbon had been Closer for a number of seasons, we all sort of knew Jonathan would be gone.  I can think of a lot of successful seasons, where at this point in time, things looked pretty bleak.  If you don't think we already have a competitive team, probably will never be satisfied. 
    I take real issue saying a rotation with Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Bard and Aceves is unstable, and with young outfielders Kalish, Reddick and Linares, most teams would be drooling so much.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    Sometimes I find it amusing when I think how sports fans forget what a big deal a little luck is.  In 2004, if Roberts is called out at 2nd (worse calls have been made against the Sox in the post season), if a Yankee ball doesnt bounce oddly in the stands for a ground rule double, if several other little things dont go JUST right... the Sox are "losers" and Tito never has his legendary career.

    I try to explain this to people when I tell them that even 'just 2' WSCs in 8 years is a lot.  If a team makes the playoffs every year for 8 straight years, then the chances are that they will win one WSC.  The NYY, with the largest payroll in BB every year, has only won once in the past 11.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    I fully realize that a number of $$$$$$$$ were spent the last two seasons on free agents.

    However, the Sox are lacking in major league ready prospects and have only two choices available to them if they want to improve this club. Sign free agents or trade away the few top prospects they have for Pitching. If they fail to do either before the season starts, let’s hope that they don’t make another July move for a rent a pitcher they could have signed now.


    Right, July trades should only be to fill a hole caused by injury or unexpected decline by an important player. The cost is always too high.


    Look at what Bedard fetched in trade. He only cost $1M to sign during the winter.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?

    In Response to Re: no "named" closer, right field is a guessing game, the rotation is unstable...WHAT IS BEN DOING?:
    [QUOTE]Ben is doing as he is told my mgmt who trusted theo the pig when he said signing lackley and cc were good deals. Now team is is horrific condition as theo give the whole org the finger as he has been doing for years. Now mgmt does not want to pay luxury tax and I suspose you would. Mgt has to live with theo mismgt for years to come. Get used to sox finishing third or forth til both these theo the pig pigs are gone. In the meantime rays have almost no payrol and will beat sox again and again. And again, thanks to theo the pig. Ben is being asked to be the fall guy for theo the pig. theo is not often blamed for giving up the store for AGon but what did he contribute. We would have been better off without him. So another bad deal by theo the pig. Why none of you guys pays theo a visit I do not know.



    Posted by teddybaseball009[/QUOTE]
     
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