No team has Ellsbury as their "#1 priority"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

     

    My guess is that the Mariners will make a big splash and sign Ellsbury.   

    How many of us picked the Angels to sign Hamilton last year?  The Angels came out of nowhere.  

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattc355. Show mattc355's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    _

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to seannybboi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Boras is saying it wasn't Ellsbury's fault on those injuries.  He's right.  But Ellsbury has to be more careful on his shoulder and his ribs because of those injuries. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Broken bones grow back stronger.....if he had a soft tissue injury such as a ligament or a tendon then yes...I'd say he'd be at a greater risk of re-occurance. 

    [/QUOTE]


    a sublexion of the shoulder is exactly that (soft tissue). I know what thats like and the long term effects it can have. Then again, hes only 28 when it happened and has the best doctors available to him.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its not just the inuries.  I am sure there is a franchise out there that would roll the dice on the two season-wrecker injuries being freak accidents and not Ellsbury being fragile.  But, to go along with the injury history, who is Ellsbury?  Is he a speed-demon lead off guy with decent on-base ability and a little bit of gap power (this year, 2008-2009), or is a singular phenomenon of hitting acumen, power and speed (2011)?  I imagine that it will be too difficult for any GM to go with the latter, even if the possibility is there.  So, the mega pay-day probably isn't coming.

    [/QUOTE]

    He missed 28 games this year, what was that "freak" accident this time?

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    Bradley's not ready. In fact, he's overated! If Ells stays, Bradley stays in Pawtucket. If Ells goes, Victorino is in Center and, Bradley stays in Pawtucket.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to soxdawg08's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bradley's not ready. In fact, he's overated! If Ells stays, Bradley stays in Pawtucket. If Ells goes, Victorino is in Center and, Bradley stays in Pawtucket.

    [/QUOTE]

    You know it's funny,  back when everyone was declaring JBJ god in ST I was one of the few voices of reason in here trying to get people to pump the brakes a bit.  I also said that I think he is going to be the type of player that will do all those little things that will never show up on a stat sheet,  He will be the player that DOESN'T make ESPN's web gems one night because he made a difficult play look easy, he will be the player that make it to 3rd from 1st on a single that many other players would have been held up on at 2nd, and he will be that guy that sees a lot of pitches and helps drive pitchers out of games.

    That's why it has long been a position of mine to assume that JBJ is not only going to be a very good player, he is going to be VERY under rated here in Boston because he's not going to hit .320 and 30 HR's or steal 50 bases....but compared to the money he will make and Jacoby will make I'll take JBJ every time.

    .....just wait and see. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    You know it's funny,  back when everyone was declaring JBJ god in ST I was one of the few voices of reason in here trying to get people to pump the brakes a bit.  I also said that I think he is going to be the type of player that will do all those little things that will never show up on a stat sheet,  He will be the player that DOESN'T make ESPN's web gems one night because he made a difficult play look easy, he will be the player that make it to 3rd from 1st on a single that many other players would have been held up on at 2nd, and he will be that guy that sees a lot of pitches and helps drive pitchers out of games.

    That's why it has long been a position of mine to assume that JBJ is not only going to be a very good player, he is going to be VERY under rated here in Boston because he's not going to hit .320 and 30 HR's or steal 50 bases....but compared to the money he will make and Jacoby will make I'll take JBJ every time.

    .....just wait and see. 

    [/QUOTE]

    This all may very well be true, and if it is it's a good reason to not buy a shirt with his name on it because he won't be around here long.  This FO is very offense-minded.  We all learned in August what happens to a player who does those things you said but doesn't put up offensive numbers you can hang your hat on.  Except that guy DID make the web-gem plays too. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

     

    I like Victorino, but history will show that an Ellsbury/Victorino outfield will still allow JBJ to play between 40 and 60 games next year. Victorino's back will get better?? Ellsbury won't be in a contract year, so he will revert to his old ways.

    Actually, in order of free-agent signings, I would like to see

    Salty (3-4 years at reasonable rate, trade in 3rd year if someone else steps up)

    Napoli (2 years, possible buy-out option for 3rd)

    Drew

    Ellsbury

    in that order. I like Ellsbury, but even at 5/100, I think that he will be out of the line-up a lot.

    I would be happier signing Salty and Napoli and trading Dempster for Iggy, but that is not going to happen.

     

     



    What "old ways" are those?

     

     

    Getting run over by another player?

    Seems like that would be tough to plan.




    I agree. He slid into 2nd to try and break up a DP and 205lb Ried Brignac fell on his shoulder. Beltre runs him over while he was playing out of position in LF, then he tries to come back aftere the Sox staff denies him an xray only to get run over by 260lb tommy hunter on a play at 1b. Some may blame him for staying out too long, but I have no issue with a guy wanting to make sure hes 100% before coming back. Especially if he hasnt had his big payday yet.

    The "soft" moniker for Ells with some fans is ridiculous. (General statement, not directed at anyone inparticular)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    You know it's funny,  back when everyone was declaring JBJ god in ST I was one of the few voices of reason in here trying to get people to pump the brakes a bit.  I also said that I think he is going to be the type of player that will do all those little things that will never show up on a stat sheet,  He will be the player that DOESN'T make ESPN's web gems one night because he made a difficult play look easy, he will be the player that make it to 3rd from 1st on a single that many other players would have been held up on at 2nd, and he will be that guy that sees a lot of pitches and helps drive pitchers out of games.

    That's why it has long been a position of mine to assume that JBJ is not only going to be a very good player, he is going to be VERY under rated here in Boston because he's not going to hit .320 and 30 HR's or steal 50 bases....but compared to the money he will make and Jacoby will make I'll take JBJ every time.

    .....just wait and see. 

    [/QUOTE]

    This all may very well be true, and if it is it's a good reason to not buy a shirt with his name on it because he won't be around here long.  This FO is very offense-minded.  We all learned in August what happens to a player who does those things you said but doesn't put up offensive numbers you can hang your hat on.  Except that guy DID make the web-gem plays too. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Let it go 5, let it go WinkTongue Out

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to seannybboi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Boras is saying it wasn't Ellsbury's fault on those injuries.  He's right.  But Ellsbury has to be more careful on his shoulder and his ribs because of those injuries. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Broken bones grow back stronger.....if he had a soft tissue injury such as a ligament or a tendon then yes...I'd say he'd be at a greater risk of re-occurance. 

    [/QUOTE]

    True. Its also true that some people have congenitally weaker bones. Ellbury may be one of them. Look up "osteogenesis imperfecta". I am not saying Ellsbury has this condition at all, but there ARE all kinds of variations of expression of it. He may simply not form bone tissue as well as other people. Not his fault, but its not the team's fault either. At contract time that issue gets addressed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    Who is going to throw 140 mill at a guy who will miss 30 games every year.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    I do not recall anyone here proclaiming JBJR to be a 'God" in spring training. The debate was over team control and due to Elles being injured (shocker) most of us were not going to let team control get in the way of JBJR rightfully starting the season in Boston. He gained a lot of experience that will only help him be better in 2014.

    Nobody with a straight mind said JR was going to come out of the gate and be the next Fred Lynn or Elles or even Ellis Burks (which would be awesome if JR is anything like Burks in terms of skill).  I to look forward to watching this man play centerfield.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    Ellsbury comes in around $115 mil with the Yanks, Mariners or some other team. Not the Redsox but I do think they would like him back. They just can't afford him back and they do have other options. The Redsox are back in value shopping mode and Ellsbury can only be found at Nordstroms.

    A huge consideration is just that Ellsbury actually would be a better player in another ball field than Fenway. He isn't optimized for Fenway and is probably even hurt some by Fenway. He's more of a small ball player. I think he'd be a great fit in Seattle or another small ball location, particularly one with a large LF and a small RF. Yankee stadium, Philadephia or another team. One with an expansive CF would be appropriate also and Fenway does fit that bill defensively for him.

    As much as I like JBJ I don't think he's optimized for Fenway either. But he's dirt cheap and he will get on base fine and be at least average defensively in Fenway, above average most every other place. 

    I think Ellsbury is almost defintely gone, and wish him the absolute best, as long as he is not a Yankee.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    ellsbury and boras will get what they want.  I doubt they are nervous and who really knows what is going on.

    JBJ stays either way, if he is as bad as some think, how is he tradeable?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ellsbury and boras will get what they want.  I doubt they are nervous and who really knows what is going on.

    JBJ stays either way, if he is as bad as some think, how is he tradeable?

    [/QUOTE]

    Why?  Boras doesn't always get what he wants.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    I think the OP is accurate...Ells in not anyone's top priority....and the money Boras thinks Drew is worth would mean Ells' asking price would be over 200 mill

     

    simply not worth it - i will take my chances with JB

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    It has been reported that Ells is likely to sign with the Sox at 6 years $18.5

     

    I can live with this deal.  One year too many, but I think he's worth it. The guy is in phenomenal shape, & is likely to be a very fit 37 yr old.  He'll be a bargain at years 3, 4, & probably 5.

     

    sounds ok.  Go for it Ben!  I think you're getting One over on Borras!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It has been reported that Ells is likely to sign with the Sox at 6 years $18.5

     

    I can live with this deal.  One year too many, but I think he's worth it. The guy is in phenomenal shape, & is likely to be a very fit 37 yr old.  He'll be a bargain at years 3, 4, & probably 5.

     

    sounds ok.  Go for it Ben!  I think you're getting One over on Borras!

    [/QUOTE]

    Got a link to prove that? Sounds absurd....about twice what he is worth.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    It has been reported that Ells is likely to sign with the Sox at 6 years $18.5

    Where was that reported?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    It has been reported that Ells is likely to sign with the Sox at 6 years $18.5

    Where was that reported?

    [/QUOTE]

    My guess is that he saw the 6/18.5 for Ellsbury in a beat writer like Paul White's free agent "prediction" column, and didn't actually mean it was being reported.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    It has been reported that Ells is likely to sign with the Sox at 6 years $18.5

    Where was that reported?

    [/QUOTE]

    My guess is that he saw the 6/18.5 for Ellsbury in a beat writer like Paul White's free agent "prediction" column, and didn't actually mean it was being reported.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Well I have said that the highest Id go is a 6/108 deal for Ells, so I would only be off by 3M if it actually happened.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from one-for-the-road. Show one-for-the-road's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Last three years, despite missing loads of 2012, 16.3 WAR has him as the third best OF in MLB.

    [/QUOTE]

    yeah, but that´s mainly for a freakish and flukish 2011 season, he had like 9 WAR then, do you expect him to be a 9 WAR player from now on?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    "It has been reported that Ells is likely to sign with the Sox at 6 years $18.5"

    I actually had a talk with the reporter who got the story. 

    He says the article is coming soon, he is tied up on assignment but then he will file it: 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: No team has Ellsbury as their

    In response to one-for-the-road's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Last three years, despite missing loads of 2012, 16.3 WAR has him as the third best OF in MLB.

    [/QUOTE]

    yeah, but that´s mainly for a freakish and flukish 2011 season, he had like 9 WAR then, do you expect him to be a 9 WAR player from now on?

    [/QUOTE]

    No, past performance does not guarantee future results.  Almost any player who uses Boras should be avoided when a FA.  Ells will probably not live up to his next contract, few do.  Werth, Crawford, Fielder,.....

    I was poking fun at Dr. Hill, who often post cumulative WAR.   He sadi Ells was a "good" player, after mostly pointing out flaws in ells in years past.  My point is that Ells has been great, not good.  Dr. Hill failed to own up to his mistake on Ells.  

    You point out the 2011 fluke but fail to mention the 13th highest WAR in MLB in 2013.  Give ells his due over the last three years.   Even if his his 2011 was just like his 2013 he has been great.  Here is age 27 - 29 years ranked by WAR:

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-slow-decline-of-speedy-outfielders/

    NamePABB%K%ISOAVGOBPSLGwOBAwRC+BsROffDefWAR Rickey Henderson 1788 14% 11% 0.165 0.285 0.387 0.450 0.374 133 28 99 6 17 Jacoby Ellsbury 1691 7% 14% 0.166 0.303 0.356 0.469 0.359 123 19 64 34 16 Ichiro Suzuki 2191 6% 8% 0.111 0.328 0.374 0.440 0.350 118 15 64 22 16 Kenny Lofton 1788 9% 11% 0.150 0.324 0.381 0.474 0.372 118 18 60 31 15 Tim Raines 1733 14% 8% 0.163 0.297 0.395 0.461 0.371 135 15 86 -8 14 Andy Van Slyke 1761 10% 18% 0.180 0.271 0.341 0.451 0.352 126 5 56 18 14 Devon White 1914 8% 20% 0.149 0.253 0.314 0.402 0.322 98 10 7 58 13 Derek Bell 1926 7% 18% 0.165 0.285 0.340 0.450 0.343 111 6 32 23 11 Aaron Rowand 1769 6% 18% 0.170 0.283 0.344 0.453 0.346 105 11 22 29 11 Steve Finley 1688 7% 11% 0.127 0.279 0.331 0.406 0.328 106 6 16 29 10 Marquis Grissom 1850 7% 11% 0.148 0.286 0.337 0.435 0.336 100 7 7 36 10 Average1,8419%13%0.1530.2890.3540.4420.34911512452413
     
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