A couple of innings is too soon to tell.
One thing I do know watching the game is, Francona is a mutch better sunflower seed spitter than Valentine.
Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
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Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/10/2012 8:38 PM EST
- tbs2007
- Posts: 355
- First: 10/19/2004
- Last: 5/8/2013
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Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/10/2012 8:52 PM EST
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34532
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 5/24/2013
I am sure of one thing: I like him as a set-up man. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/10/2012 8:59 PM EST
- TheExaminer
- Posts: 12125
- First: 12/30/2010
- Last: 5/24/2013
Neh, too early to tell, but I think he'll be fine. Could be a big surprise actually.... -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/10/2012 10:46 PM EST
- redsoxdirtdog
- Posts: 4510
- First: 8/14/2010
- Last: 5/24/2013
I can guarantee you one thing. Bard ABSOLUTELY WILL BE worlds better than Lackey or Dice-K!!!!
Ok, that's not saying much, but I really have high hopes for this kid! His change up is a sick contrast to his fast ball, and his slider is flat out one excellent major league pitch. :) There will certainly be growing pains, but I honestly think this kid has the stuff to be an excellent starter. Bard is so much more valuable to this team as a starter! -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/11/2012 5:34 AM EDT
- SinceYaz
- Posts: 5219
- First: 5/31/2008
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In Response to Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:A couple of innings is too soon to tell. One thing I do know watching the game is, Francona is a mutch better sunflower seed spitter than Valentine.
Posted by tbs2007
3 more excellent innings ... still too soon, but not a bad start! Much easier to be hopeful with this beginning than if he got rocked twice.
(Please don't remind me it was against that powerhouse line-up of TB.... hehe!) -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/11/2012 6:07 AM EDT
- Beantowne
- Posts: 3467
- First: 6/30/2008
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In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:In Response to Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : 3 more excellent innings ... still too soon, but not a bad start! Much easier to be hopeful with this beginning than if he got rocked twice. (Please don't remind me it was against that powerhouse line-up of TB.... hehe!)
Posted by SinceYaz
Hey Yaz,
Bard's stuff alone makes him a legit contender. The question that remains to be answered is can he command it for 100 pitches, every 5 days and successfully navigate a lineup three times in a game? If he can then he'll be just fine. My guess is that he'll hit a few bumps along the way. I like his upside (#1 stuff), if the kid can consistently command his offspeed stuff while maintianing a plus fastball for 6 or 7 innings. The key to me is his change up vs lefties and i'm pretty sure that he'll propbably add a cutter to his arsenal as well...
I thought he looked pretty good yesterday maintined a 95 plus fastball over 3 innings and didn't look to be over throwing, he spun a couple of sliders that were nasty, but rolled a few of them too...We'll learn more as we get deeper into the spring, his last two starts will give us a better barometer from which to measure where he is.
To me the key's are...
1) Maintianing his fastball velocity (95 plus) and command, after he passes the 60 pitch threshold (innings 5-6-7). Then going out and doing it every 5 days...;
2) Change-up/two seemer combo to lefties. While mixing in a few cutters in on the hands.
3) Use of his slider as a put away pitch to righties and throwing it down and in at the lefties back foot.
Should be fun to watch... -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/11/2012 8:34 AM EDT
- Teakus
- Posts: 1931
- First: 7/19/2008
- Last: 1/9/2013
We all know Bard can pitch well for 1,2 or even 3 innings. The question is can he pitch 6,7, or 8 innings-and can he do it consistantly for a season. This outing says nothing about that. Time will tell, but I suspect that if he struggles in the starter role, Dice-K will replace him in the rotation and he'll return to late inning studness again. It's how I see things going. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/11/2012 3:20 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7433
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
Francona choosing to cling to Bard as a set up guy when the team was crashing and burning miught have been the dumbest thing he ever did...and that is saying a lot...even if he has trouble lasting more than 6 innings, he is a huge improvement over Wakefield or anyone else they stuck with in 2011.... -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/11/2012 5:10 PM EDT
- craze4sox
- Posts: 4007
- First: 6/5/2011
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In Response to Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:A couple of innings is too soon to tell. One thing I do know watching the game is, Francona is a mutch better sunflower seed spitter than Valentine.
Posted by tbs2007
Bard could easily become another Justin Masterson, or a bust like Joba or Hughes as a starter. Either way I hope it doesn't screw up his mind set if he does return to the pen. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/11/2012 6:03 PM EDT
- jasko2248
- Posts: 2781
- First: 11/3/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In response to "Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...":Francona choosing to cling to Bard as a set up guy when the team was crashing and burning miught have been the dumbest thing he ever did...and that is saying a lot...even if he has trouble lasting more than 6 innings, he is a huge improvement over Wakefield or anyone else they stuck with in 2011.... Posted by georom4It's actually even more stupid to try to convert a reliever into a starter DURING the season. It's never, ever done for a reason...I'm hoping you weren't serious with this post... -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 8:18 AM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7433
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
jasko....are you serious? who came up with that rule? you? why wouldnt you if you were down 3 starters and fighting for the last playoff spot? Was bard's head going to explode if he or Aceves started in September? Your idiocy knows no bounds does it? -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 8:23 AM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8448
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/24/2013
georom, I think you might have a better case saying Aceves should have made some starts...but you can't blame the pitching meltdown on Tito, by the end of September Aceves was about the only reliable pitcher we had. Bedard was no help at all. Weiland, Wakefield, Miller...they were all horrible. And Bard's arm was exhausted by that point. Just a total disaster. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 8:27 AM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7433
- First: 4/9/2009
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HFX, you are right, Aceves was the better choice - but I have no idea what jasko is talking about....throwing the same crapola out there in september doomed us - we needed fresh blood badly Aceves or bard were more than capable and ready -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 9:46 AM EDT
- jasko2248
- Posts: 2781
- First: 11/3/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In response to "Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...":jasko....are you serious? who came up with that rule? you? why wouldnt you if you were down 3 starters and fighting for the last playoff spot? Was bard's head going to explode if he or Aceves started in September? Your idiocy knows no bounds does it? Posted by georom4Wow, I'm the idiot, but you're going to take a one inning reliever and make him a starter in September? That's ridiculous at best. Aceves was at least stretched out a bit, a term you're clearly not familiar with, but he would have given us 5 or 6 innings tops, and there was risk in that as well. Stick to your forte, OCD induced Beckett rants. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 10:45 AM EDT
- thepeskypole6
- Posts: 1077
- First: 5/25/2011
- Last: 5/13/2013
In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:Francona choosing to cling to Bard as a set up guy when the team was crashing and burning miught have been the dumbest thing he ever did...and that is saying a lot...even if he has trouble lasting more than 6 innings, he is a huge improvement over Wakefield or anyone else they stuck with in 2011....
Posted by georom4So....you would have made him a starter during the season last year? When would you have started the process? Who would have taken his spot in the bullpen? -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 10:49 AM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7433
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
pesky - 8th inning setup man or a starter...you have to choose one...what do you choose? is this a serious question? -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 10:52 AM EDT
- thepeskypole6
- Posts: 1077
- First: 5/25/2011
- Last: 5/13/2013
In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:pesky - 8th inning setup man or a starter...you have to choose one...what do you choose? is this a serious question?
Posted by georom4I am responding to your comment that Francona clinging to Bard as a set up man was dumb and he would have done a better job than Wakefield. So when would you have made Bard the starter and who would have taken his place as the set up guy? This is a very serious question -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 11:09 AM EDT
- jasko2248
- Posts: 2781
- First: 11/3/2009
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In response to "Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...":pesky - 8th inning setup man or a starter...you have to choose one...what do you choose? is this a serious question? Posted by georom4Tito actually wanted to make Bard a starter last September, but unfortunately his magic wand was in the shop being repaired. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 11:15 AM EDT
- thepeskypole6
- Posts: 1077
- First: 5/25/2011
- Last: 5/13/2013
You can't just decide over the weekend to make someone a starter. It takes time to stretch them out and during a season it is real problematic because in the process of stretching him out he becomes unavailable really shortening your staff. Either you stretch him out for three weeks in the minors or with the big club. I can't imagine the beating Tito would have taken if he would have tried to do this with Bard during the season. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 11:16 AM EDT
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
Geo you must know that it would take months to get a guy ready to pitch 100 pitches a game who is used to coming in and throwing 30.That's how you end guys careers.Regardless I wouldn't worry too much about Bard this year. Even if he isn't amazing his stuff is good enough for him to win 10 to 15 games. I don't see how he will be a complete failure out there with the arm and control that he has. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 11:18 AM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7433
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 5/24/2013
snake, were no talkiing about 120 pitches...were talking about geting 5 innings from a young guy with a strong arm - he's not made of glass -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 11:22 AM EDT
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
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In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:snake, were no talkiing about 120 pitches...were talking about geting 5 innings from a young guy with a strong arm - he's not made of glass
Posted by georom4You have a point but it isn't just Francona that wouldn't have done it. No manager would have. Even if it makes no sense it just isn't done. I can't think of one time in the 35 years I have been following baseball that the Red Sox have started a guy who is used to pitching one inning a game.Now Aceves is a different story, he was stretched out a little bit and could have gone 5 without too much trouble. -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 11:28 AM EDT
- thepeskypole6
- Posts: 1077
- First: 5/25/2011
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In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:snake, were no talkiing about 120 pitches...were talking about geting 5 innings from a young guy with a strong arm - he's not made of glass
Posted by georom4Ridiculous -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 2:13 PM EDT
- redsoxu571
- Posts: 369
- First: 11/15/2006
- Last: 1/24/2013
In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...:jasko....are you serious? who came up with that rule? you? why wouldnt you if you were down 3 starters and fighting for the last playoff spot? Was bard's head going to explode if he or Aceves started in September? Your idiocy knows no bounds does it?
Posted by georom4
Well, as you've since acknowledged, Aceves and Bard are apples and oranges...Aceves was a swing man who could pitch multiple innings in relief and who made spot starts within the season...he had been prepared before the season for such a role.
Before you take jasko to task, answer this...how many times have you seen a one-inning RP converted into a starter midseason, without at least some sort of gradual conversion (i.e. some time in the minors or use in long relief)?
You are essentially advocating for Bard to have gone from frequent single innings to immediate use as a SP...I'm certain that would not be a good idea for the health of the pitcher's arm. There's a reason players are "stretched out" during spring training. If the Sox had wanted to make Bard a SP, they would have essentially needed to surrender about a month at some point midseason to make the conversion BEFORE actually using him for starts...think they were in a rush to do that while looking like a playoff lock? -
Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter...
posted at 3/12/2012 2:38 PM EDT
- traven
- Posts: 3442
- First: 12/30/2009
- Last: 4/6/2013
Hopefully Bard works out as a starter...a lot depends on what happens to his speed and how well he can throw strikes with his other pitchers which he really didn't have to use in the BP. There are not many pitchers like Verlander who can throw 100mph a whole game.