In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : I changed my mind...I am with Geo on this now...it was clear that are starting pitching was the issue...Francona the moron or as my friends call him...Francoma should have put Papelbon and Bard in the rotation in September...I know they are not stretched out...I am just asking for 6 innings and which ever one is not starting could come in for relief and close out the last three innings. Keep in mind I have been frozen since the year 1908 and have been unfrozen for just over a month. The way Francona managed last year was just awful. Awful!!!!!! :-0
Posted by thepeskypole6

Wow, Bard really got rocked today. 7 earned runs. Hopefully it was just a bad outing.
Posted by jrh1194

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : he comes in an inning late, throws a couple of pitches, has to sit through a rain delay...then gets rocked.  More than likely his rhythm was completely thrown off.
Posted by jh13

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : the fact that you think a guy whose is used to pitching 1 inning can just come in and pitch 6 innings with the same effectivness indicates that you should just refreeze yourself.  And when has Paps ever pitched 3 innings?  Getting him to pitch 2 innings was a chore in itself.
Posted by jh13

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : Cliff Lee also had to spend an entire season (2007) in AAA to fix his mechenics and work on his secondary pitches (change), after having some success with the Indians. Not sure why you used him as an example? To suggest that Bard lacks the ability to stay in the moment and maintian his mechenics is merely speculative on your part. In that he's been a 1 innings guy since arriving in Boston. What is real is that he does need to re-learn how to pace himself so that he's able to maintain his stuff over 100 pitch outings. A process that can only happen while he's on the mound and that can't happen if he's relagated back to the pen. During that process he'll needs to continue to develop and refine his command and use of his slider, cutter & change to keep hitters honest the 2nd and 3rd time through the order. Espcially lefthanded hitters. It was his inability to command the zone with his secondary pitches along with his 100 MPH fastball that was at the heart of why he was converted to the pen while in Pawtucket. I'd say given the results, it was a good move. Since arriving and taking on the primary set-up role. He's worked hard on the side and has developed a pretty good change, though he could stand to take a little more off of it and has also learned to harness his stuff pitching from the stretch... From where I sit the kid has the stuff to be a top of the rotation talant. I think it's worth the gamble to give him every opportunity to stretch himself out and give it a go. Those that have already concluded that he'll fail are entittled to that opin. In the end he may well struggle, but I don't see any harm in letting him try... In my mind you can't fail, until you stop trying. I've never read anything that suggest that the kid doesn't show up for work everyday and give 100%. He and his coaches, all, I'm sure have mapped out the road ahead and as long as he's doing his part. Valentine, McClure and Cherington will evaluate him based on his progression and in the end he'll either be part of the rotation or take his place in the backend of the pen. Only those in the know, have the answers to the question. Everyone else is merely basing their opins of whether he will, or won't based on their own agenda....
Posted by Beantowne

He was rocked yesterday and now has a 7.00 + ERA in ST. I'm not sure I like him as a Starter either. Too bad, we need him to succeed desperately.
Posted by sindarin-erebor

 Unless I missed something, he did not throw a single change-up in this outing. Perhaps McClure and Valentine have him working solely on the fastball and the breaking ball. But one would think that ST is the time to work on a third pitch, one that he will need as a starter to keep batters from sitting on his fastball. 
Posted by expitch

He was rocked yesterday and now has a 7.00 + ERA in ST. I'm not sure I like him as a Starter either. Too bad, we need him to succeed desperately.
Posted by sindarin-erebor

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : You did miss something (although not much).  He through his 1 and only changeup of the game in the 5th inning.  Bobby V was very unhappy that Bard wasn't throwing it more.
Posted by JB-3

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : I, myself, am not sure.  I mean, yes, of course, we would all love it if Bard turned into a stude starter.  But, given that there would likely be a learning/performance curve due to the completely different work load and demands of starting, I might as soon go with (matsuzaka), Padilla, Doubront, Cook, or Aceves in the 4,5 and keep Bard in the pen.  A back end of Bard/Melancon/Bailey will be making games mighty short.  I really don't know where I would prefer Daniel.  
Posted by SpacemanEephus

only an managerial idiot would see his pitching staff crumble during the season and refuse to move his hardest throwing and youngest pitcher into the rotation to help save the team from disaster....this is why francona is out of a job....weakness + inflexibility = 2011 Red Sox
Posted by georom4

only an managerial idiot would see his pitching staff crumble during the season and refuse to move his hardest throwing and youngest pitcher into the rotation to help save the team from disaster....this is why francona is out of a job....weakness + inflexibility = 2011 Red Sox
Posted by georom4

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... :  G.  Now you know, outside of the chicken and beer stuff, I respect and appreciate what you bring to the board.  But, this is ridiculous.  You express indignant outrage at how stupid a manager can be ... for not moving his set-up guy into the rotation ... with the season in the balance.  Um.  Sorry man.  That is not intelligent baseball thought.  I know you want to trash Francona.  Butm upon reflection you should trash yourself for this silliness.  First, ask yourself if something like that has ever been done in the history of the game.  Then, once you have reached the conclusion that the answer is no, ask yourself why.  Converting a short relief guy to a starter in the middle of the season is a disaster waiting to happen.  Not the piece of cake you have said it would be.  I agree that there were ways in which the 2011 Sox could have shown more creative flexibility.  this, without a doubt, is not one of them.  If you are going to trash Francona, you should be sure your ideas are better than his.
Posted by SpacemanEephus

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : sorry space...francona put Tarzawa in against the Yanks in yankee stadium a few years back in a crucial series and let him get thrashed...he was not ready, had not even PITCHED at the major league level...was that silly? No one is saying Bard had to go 9 innings the first start - but to tell him he was going to start and build up his innings was a much better option than wake, miller, or the three stooges - whatever was being thrown up there after clay/dice went down
Posted by georom4

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : sorry space...francona put Tarzawa in against the Yanks in yankee stadium a few years back in a crucial series and let him get thrashed...he was not ready, had not even PITCHED at the major league level...was that silly? No one is saying Bard had to go 9 innings the first start - but to tell him he was going to start and build up his innings was a much better option than wake, miller, or the three stooges - whatever was being thrown up there after clay/dice went down
Posted by georom4

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : geo, man, you're going solely on memory here and memory is often faulty.  Tazawa's first appearance in '09 was against the Yankees but it was in the 14th inning.  And in his first start against the Yankees he shut them out for 6 innings.
Posted by Hfxsoxnut

In Response to Re: Not sure if I like Bard as a Starter... : sorry space...francona put Tarzawa in against the Yanks in yankee stadium a few years back in a crucial series and let him get thrashed...he was not ready, had not even PITCHED at the major league level...was that silly? No one is saying Bard had to go 9 innings the first start - but to tell him he was going to start and build up his innings was a much better option than wake, miller, or the three stooges - whatever was being thrown up there after clay/dice went down Posted by georom4