Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    After CC's wrist surgery, he will probably miss ST and even couple of weeks or more of regular season. 

    I say talk to Theo and get either Byrd or Soriano via trade and get some cash to sign Oswalt.  And of course, Cubs have to take most of Soriano's salary if they want to part with him. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    Wait..... So because Crawford is going to miss maybe 2 weeks, you want to add a 3 year commitment for an aging OF in Soriano?  It's a month tops.  Aviles can play LF and the RF platoon, won't be as much of a platoon for the month.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    Also, apparently the Sox FO reached out to Selig late last month and requested he step in to resolve the comp issue.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]Wait..... So because Crawford is going to miss maybe 2 weeks, you want to add a 3 year commitment for an aging OF in Soriano?  It's a month tops.  Aviles can play LF and the RF platoon, won't be as much of a platoon for the month.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    I'm just saying we need one more solid OF.  Even though Soriano's aging, he still produces.  I really don't mind Soriano being our RF if we can get him for $3-4MM a year.  Don't tell me he's aging OF and not willing to pay him that money for 3 yrs.  Papi just asked for $16MM
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lardin. Show lardin's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]YES...IT IS TIME !!! SELIG SHOULD NEVER HAVE LET IT GO THIS LONG !!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    Actually, Selig had nothing to do with this dragging out.  The Red Sox should have insisted on the compensation talks being complete BEFORE they even let the Cubs talk to Theo.  Once Theo moved to Chicago, the chances of the Sox getting anything in return dropped to Nil.  The conudrum they find themselves in with the Cubs and Theo is entirely their own fault and of their own making. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : I'm just saying we need one more solid OF.  Even though Soriano's aging, he still produces.  I really don't mind Soriano being our RF if we can get him for $3-4MM a year.  Don't tell me he's aging OF and not willing to pay him that money for 3 yrs.  Papi just asked for $16MM Posted by seannybboi[/QUOTE] The reason the Sox didn't even consider him after '06 when he was a free agent was because they didn't think he could play RF then. Now that he is 36, I doubt their stance has changed. They wouldn't start Soriano in right field even if Cubs paid his full salary...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    Cubs might part with Soriano as long as Boston takes on full salary. Other than that, no chance.

    FTR - One must forget 2004 & 2007 for now when it comes to this. The fact is that Theo has produced two straight years of a 3rd place team and compensation for that is minimal. Add into the fact that Boston didn't want him anymore and that they didn't insist on something right away makes any chance of Boston receiving something substantial in return at this point very low.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : I'm just saying we need one more solid OF.  Even though Soriano's aging, he still produces.  I really don't mind Soriano being our RF if we can get him for $3-4MM a year.  Don't tell me he's aging OF and not willing to pay him that money for 3 yrs.  Papi just asked for $16MM
    Posted by seannybboi[/QUOTE]

    The issue isn't his salary, it's the length of the commitment.  He simply isn't good enough to warrant blocking a healthy Kalish, although that may not be a problem considering how often Soriano is injured.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]FTR - One must forget 2004 & 2007 for now when it comes to this. The fact is that Theo has produced two straight years of a 3rd place team and compensation for that is minimal. Add into the fact that Boston didn't want him anymore and that they didn't insist on something right away makes any chance of Boston receiving something substantial in return at this point very low.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Seriously, why is a person whose signature includes "born member of the evil empire" commenting on the compensation issue? Do you really think you're qualified to be objective about this?

    The value of an executive is certainly much more than the performances of the past two teams. First of all, "third place team" is incredibly misleading, given then the Sox finished behind two playoff teams in each of those years, and especially considering that in 2010 the team finished in third soley due to abnormal and impossible to plan for injuries. No excuses, but you can't put the blame on the GM there.

    Epstein's value even goes far beyond his two championships. More than anything, the way he rebuilt Red Sox player development, fashioned the long-term competitiveness of the team, and overhauled player evaluation is his legacy.

    "Add to the fact that Boston didn't want him anymore" is simply factually incorrect. Epstein was eying a promotion that the Sox couldn't offer due to the fact that Boston already has the position filled by someone the franchise likes a lot. Good for Epstein for receiving this new opportunity, but it isn't Boston's fault and doesn't reflect on them at all.

    You're correct that the delay and lack of immediate insistence on compensation hurts the potential value of compensation, but you're way off base on everything else you said. Please don't compose arguments that aim to just make your desired point and ignore a large portion of the evidence, it's uncouth.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : Seriously, why is a person whose signature includes "born member of the evil empire" commenting on the compensation issue? Do you really think you're qualified to be objective about this? The value of an executive is certainly much more than the performances of the past two teams. First of all, "third place team" is incredibly misleading, given then the Sox finished behind two playoff teams in each of those years, and especially considering that in 2010 the team finished in third soley due to abnormal and impossible to plan for injuries. No excuses, but you can't put the blame on the GM there. Epstein's value even goes far beyond his two championships. More than anything, the way he rebuilt Red Sox player development, fashioned the long-term competitiveness of the team, and overhauled player evaluation is his legacy. "Add to the fact that Boston didn't want him anymore" is simply factually incorrect. Epstein was eying a promotion that the Sox couldn't offer due to the fact that Boston already has the position filled by someone the franchise likes a lot. Good for Epstein for receiving this new opportunity, but it isn't Boston's fault and doesn't reflect on them at all. You're correct that the delay and lack of immediate insistence on compensation hurts the potential value of compensation, but you're way off base on everything else you said. Please don't compose arguments that aim to just make your desired point and ignore a large portion of the evidence, it's uncouth.
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    Very simple - it is my nature to be objective, whether the conversation is baseball, music, money or life. You will never see me boast or scream about the team I root for. I will provide a statement based on what I believe to be true and factual. And the evidence I provide is absolutely on the mark. There is no homerism in my opinion. 2004 & 2007 mean very little in this conversation.  
    And there are arguments abound that say Boston's resurgence cannnot all be credited to Theo. In someone else's comments, they showed that the highest level of compensation ever given for a F.O. Executive involved Minn. and Andy McPhail and that compensation came to much of nothing. As to your point about Theo wanting something that Boston couldn't give him, then that tells me that Theo didn't want to be there anymore and Boston had no issue in letting him walk before his contract expired. I am sure Theo knew that his request would be rebuffed considering his knowledge of the Sox F.O. and the way they think.

    Boston made a mistake and it is not up to the Cubs or the Commissioner to make it right. An on field manager in the example used (Maddon) is worth far more than Theo. And the fact is that Boston made a decision to let him walk as they did and did not demand an immediate give back. The longer this plays out, I think the less Boston will receive. This is the economics of baseball. What can Boston do, demand that Theo come back and then be on the hook for his salary? I don't believe they will do that. If this was the Yankees, I would say the exact same thing. NY has to suffer for another 6 years due to Hank Steinbrenner's stupidity and the extension of A-rod's contract. I wouldn't even try to sugar coat that, even though they are my rooting interest. The Yanks failed miserably going into the 2010 season letting both Damon and Matsui go and signing Johnson. Horrible business and Cashman failed outright on that. Ownership decided last year to go against GM Cashman and signed Soriano to one of the dumbest contracts ever. No whitewashing that either.

    Yes, just because I am a born member of the Evil Empire doesn't mean that I cannot look at things objectively when it comes to the Sox and Yankees.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : Actually, Selig had nothing to do with this dragging out.  The Red Sox should have insisted on the compensation talks being complete BEFORE they even let the Cubs talk to Theo.  Once Theo moved to Chicago, the chances of the Sox getting anything in return dropped to Nil.  The conudrum they find themselves in with the Cubs and Theo is entirely their own fault and of their own making. 
    Posted by lardin[/QUOTE]

    The Red Sox made the mistake of trusting that Theo would negotiate the compensation on good faith but that doesn't let Selig off the hook.  Because Theo was still under contract with Boston MLB has a role and IF compensation is part of the deal than MLB is at fault for leaving it up to the teams and setting a horrible precedent going forward.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : The Red Sox made the mistake of trusting that Theo would negotiate the compensation on good faith but that doesn't let Selig off the hook.  Because Theo was still under contract with Boston MLB has a role and IF compensation is part of the deal than MLB is at fault for leaving it up to the teams and setting a horrible precedent going forward.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    I think the bad precedent is set if Selig does get involved. I am sure there will be compensation agreed upon at some point before S.T., but I do not think it will be for a player that will have any impact on the 2012 season. As Moon mentioned, it might be a case of the Cubs taking on some unwanted Bosox salary.

    And the truth is that we don't know if it truly is Theo who is holding this up. None of us have been a fly on the wall during any of the discussions.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    This has been beaten to death, but the facts remain the same....Andy Macphail is the only real precedent and the Twins received a prospect that ranked around 30th in the organization and a little bit of cash. Bud Selig has made it clear that he doesn't want another precedent set that makes it hard for execs to change positions. Technically, Theo took a higher position, so Sox aren't actually "owed" anything, but as Theo mentioned, he gave his word that there will be some sort of compensation, so he will honor his word and try to agree with Ben on something this spring...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]This has been beaten to death, but the facts remain the same....Andy Macphail is the only real precedent and the Twins received a prospect that ranked around 30th in the organization and a little bit of cash. Bud Selig has made it clear that he doesn't want another precedent set that makes it hard for execs to change positions. Technically, Theo took a higher position, so Sox aren't actually "owed" anything, but as Theo mentioned, he gave his word that there will be some sort of compensation, so he will honor his word and try to agree with Ben on something this spring...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    Thanks jasko. This issue will be resolved soon enough. I just don't think it will be for a player that will make RSN jump for joy.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]After CC's wrist surgery, he will probably miss ST and even couple of weeks or more of regular season.  I say talk to Theo and get either Byrd or Soriano via trade and get some cash to sign Oswalt.  And of course, Cubs have to take most of Soriano's salary if they want to part with him. 
    Posted by seannybboi[/QUOTE]

    NO NO NO on Soriano ....

    The Commish is now on the job ....

        That oughta get it resolved.

        Yeah, right.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : Thanks jasko. This issue will be resolved soon enough. I just don't think it will be for a player that will make RSN jump for joy. Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE] Hopefully, Jessey...I love Moon's idea of taking on bad money, but I just can't see the Cub's owner shelling out a few million, when at worst the Cubs will be forced to surrender a mid-level prospect...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": Hopefully, Jessey...I love Moon's idea of taking on bad money, but I just can't see the Cub's owner shelling out a few million, when at worst the Cubs will be forced to surrender a mid-level prospect...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]


    I agree with you on what the final compensation is going to be. The only thing that changes this is if Boston and Chicago are trying to work some kind of trade which will include the compensation as part of it. I know everyone was talking about Garza being part of some kind of trade in the beginning, but I never saw that as realistic.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Medic87. Show Medic87's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    Macphail is NOT the only precedent,    what about when Pinella made the move to TB,   The rays had to send then 28 y/o All star OF Randy Winn for compensation.  

    Agree with most,  we get compensation, but wont be anything of worth or certainly will not affect the 2012 team.  low level prospect at best, way low level.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : I agree with you on what the final compensation is going to be. The only thing that changes this is if Boston and Chicago are trying to work some kind of trade which will include the compensation as part of it. I know everyone was talking about Garza being part of some kind of trade in the beginning, but I never saw that as realistic. Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE] Theo & Ben worked together for 10 years and have a mutual respect for each other. I'm sure Ben asked for Garza during one of those compensation conversations and they both had a laugh. Supposedly the Cubs are asking for a ridiculous return, as they should, since they don't HAVE to move Garza and the A's and Padres both got a haul for Gio & Latos...I'm pretty sure the Sox aren't sending 4 top prospects to the Cubs for a guy who could potentially be our 4th starter.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": [QUOTE]Macphail is NOT the only precedent,    what about when Pinella made the move to TB,   The rays had to send then 28 y/o All star OF Randy Winn for compensation.   Agree with most,  we get compensation, but wont be anything of worth or certainly will not affect the 2012 team.  low level prospect at best, way low level. Posted by Medic87[/QUOTE] Apples and Oranges...Pinella was a field manager, Theo is a front office executive. Two totally different cases...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": Theo & Ben worked together for 10 years and have a mutual respect for each other. I'm sure Ben asked for Garza during one of those compensation conversations and they both had a laugh. Supposedly the Cubs are asking for a ridiculous return, as they should, since they don't HAVE to move Garza and the A's and Padres both got a haul for Gio & Latos...I'm pretty sure the Sox aren't sending 4 top prospects to the Cubs for a guy who could potentially be our 4th starter.
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely - that would be useless. Of course, according to a certain someone, I should just keep my mouth shut because I am a Yankee fan and cannot be objective with this issue.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    In response to "Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation. : Absolutely - that would be useless. Of course, according to a certain someone, I should just keep my mouth shut because I am a Yankee fan and cannot be objective with this issue. Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE] Haha...he focuses on the wrong posters sometimes..they just announced that Cubs/Sox just asked Bud to settle it. My guess is that's good for Cubs, not so much for Sox...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Medic87. Show Medic87's posts

    Re: Now it's time to talk Theo compensation.

    so field managers are worth more than General managers?  

    If you include Ozzie move to FLA for 2 top 5 prospects
    Pinella for ALL star Randy Winn

    Vs 

    Macphail for 5oth best prospect in Cubs org
    Theo for ? some low, low, level prospect at best.

    How is that apples and oranges and two totally different cases.  They are all people under contract with a certain organization and they want to leave for better or same position with another organization.  They all wanted out of their respective contracts and their employers agreed to let them out with certain provisions and compensation.
     
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