NYY get Ells, but....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Whats their rotation look like?

    CC - aging and coming off a bad year

    Nova - inconsistent

    Pineda - always hurt

    Phelps - who?

    Warren - who?

    no closer - no more Mo

    Sorry guys, but unless they get a couple solid starters and a true closer its all for nothing. they might have a better lineup with Ells, but their rotation and bullpen are very questionable. Im sure they arent done yet, but will need much better pitching than what they currently have.

    pitching wins championships as we saw this year and in years past.

    They can have Ellsbury for 22M per.




    Again agree 100%. Yankee Stadium = RS CF grave yard. Its where 30+ RS CF's go to die. Very wealthy CF's I might add. But your point on the pitching is right on point. That staff w/ Jeter @ SS and who knows @ 3B is a big problem and unless they can somehow pry a David Price from Rays, which they don't have the prospects to do, and never will if they continue to make these crazy signings, they probably won't make the playoffs. Not to mention they still need bullpen help. Its almost like roles have reversed. The RS used to be the team w/ the great lineup that scored all the runs, but never had enough pitching, while the Yanks always had and surplus of good pitching and the WS trophy's to go with it. IMO RS will win another WS title long before Yanks do!

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Whats their rotation look like?

    CC - aging and coming off a bad year

    Nova - inconsistent

    Pineda - always hurt

    Phelps - who?

    Warren - who?

    no closer - no more Mo

    Sorry guys, but unless they get a couple solid starters and a true closer its all for nothing. they might have a better lineup with Ells, but their rotation and bullpen are very questionable. Im sure they arent done yet, but will need much better pitching than what they currently have.

    pitching wins championships as we saw this year and in years past.

    They can have Ellsbury for 22M per.

     




     

     

    I just answered you / this in the other thread

    got to say I'm surprised / disapointed this is  coming form you 777

    do you really think the yanks  don't know they need pitching

    Bcash is all ready on record as saying he's looking for 2 200 inning guys

     

    yanks have a lot of holes to fill but as far as starters go

    I  think the yanks and other GM's as well as the big FA arms

    are all waiting for the tanaka biding to get done

    also still waiting on kuroda and then if they fail there they go with a garza or a jimenez

     

    yanks also need to wait for arod and cano news B4 they can address the BP and other holes

     




    This is why I said they arent done yet. C'mon zac, disappointed? I would figure you would know me by now and have enough respect that I understand whats involved and everything going on. I go it covered already. Im a little disappointed you would think I didnt know all this. But thanks for the concern. Trust me, I know they understand what they have and need.

     

    22M for 7 guarenteed years (8th option yr) with a NTC for Ells is stupid. Plain and simple. 

    Why do they have to wait for arod and Cano? They NEED a closer and SP regardless, unless they still plan on staying under 189M.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:


    The yankees are going to get more pitching - watch.  It will start with the Japanese guy and then they will probably sign two more.

    Lots of folks are saying "when will Yanks learn..." type of stuff.

    They did learn.  Look at their last championship.  They went out and spent like crazt and won the WS.  

    The idea that we are going to see financial ruin for the yankees is silly.  They have no spending limit.  None.  So when they take the Red Sox CF who bats lead off and is one of the top CF in baseball, there is NO UPSIDE for Red Sox.

    Please don't convince yourself that the Yankees can't afford pitching.

    And they will resign Cano if they can't get Phillips to play 2B

     




    Did I say threy cant afford it? Ummm, no I didnt. Trust me, I understand whats going on in baseball. Im not one of these 2004 BW fans. Been around since 1970's. Thanks for the concern though.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    Since MLB teams aren't publicly owned we don't know what their bottom line looks like, but back when the new YS was under construction one of the salary gurus wrote that once the new building is done and everything is factored in the "break-even point" for the Yankees is going to be somewhere just north of $300M.

    Luxury tax?  Who cares?  <shrug>  It's just another expense of building the winning team.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    To me the Yankees overpaying for Ellsbury actually makes sense.  They need a player with value and one who is known, and they need him a whole lot more than the Sox, who very likely were never going to pay more than $100M for whatever years.  Ellsbury should do pretty well for them, but no way could the Sox afford $153M.  

    So now two of the four free agents are gone.  Ellsbury we already knew was gone.  Salty a bit of a surprise, but not really given that he caught our two WS losses and sat for all four WS wins.  Plus Christian Vasquez, 23, looks to be ready by 2015, so Ross and the bete noir get to hold the fort until then.  

    Keeping Drew and Napoli still makes sense even though their price might have just risen slightly.  

    Anybody else remember the ending of the movie Moneyball when Billy Beane/Brad Pitt goes to Fenway Park to meet with John Henry, who tells him he has already hired Bill James and wants Beane to be the Sox GM at $12.5M/year?  I think that is a true story and shows how John Henry sees baseball.  Of course, the Sox and John Henry are always going to be expected to go after some marquee players, but deep down they want to be known as smart.  And trying to outbid the Yankees for Ellsbury was not smart.  Keeping Salty at $21M for 3 years might have been smart, I don't know.  But I think Farrell and Nieves weighed in and said Salty's bat isn't good enough to keep him behind the plate--see the WS this year in which Salty caught the two losses and Ross all four wins.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to garyhow's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Whats their rotation look like?

    CC - aging and coming off a bad year

    Nova - inconsistent

    Pineda - always hurt

    Phelps - who?

    Warren - who?

    no closer - no more Mo

    Sorry guys, but unless they get a couple solid starters and a true closer its all for nothing. they might have a better lineup with Ells, but their rotation and bullpen are very questionable. Im sure they arent done yet, but will need much better pitching than what they currently have.

    pitching wins championships as we saw this year and in years past.

    They can have Ellsbury for 22M per.




    Again agree 100%. Yankee Stadium = RS CF grave yard. Its where 30+ RS CF's go to die. Very wealthy CF's I might add. But your point on the pitching is right on point. That staff w/ Jeter @ SS and who knows @ 3B is a big problem and unless they can somehow pry a David Price from Rays, which they don't have the prospects to do, and never will if they continue to make these crazy signings, they probably won't make the playoffs. Not to mention they still need bullpen help. Its almost like roles have reversed. The RS used to be the team w/ the great lineup that scored all the runs, but never had enough pitching, while the Yanks always had and surplus of good pitching and the WS trophy's to go with it. IMO RS will win another WS title long before Yanks do!

     




    They lose their 1 st and 2nd round, but I believe have comp picks. If they dont sign both Tanaka and Kuroda and a closer, they will have to trade for one. Thats fine, I know they will throw stupid money at players. If they can win one by spending another half billion, they will and never regret all those deals in a few years because they have endless funds.

    This is why I cant stand all the "The Sox have money like NYY" BS. yes they do have money, but not NYY money where they can afford to throw away 22M and a NTC at a guy like Ells, 30M per at arod, 22M at tex 23M at CC probably 28M at cano, all for 7+ years. Oh, and 17M for McCann for 5yrs (6th option)...Thats 142M for 6 players. No team can do that, not even the Sox, nor should they. Arod might have 2014 off, but he will be back in 2015 and they almost HAVE to sign Cano now.

    But heres the funny thing...You dont have to do that to win a WSC. You have to spend some $$, but not be an idiot about it. NYY will always be in "win now" mode and will always have a bare farm system because of how they do things. Sorry, thats just not a smart way to run an organization IMHO. That is, unless you have unlimited funds.... Well, This should at least liven the rivalry up some. Cant wait to stick it to the NYY next year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    At the very least this ought to preclude any rational person from complaining that the Red Sox didn't do enough to retain him. I like Ellsbury for what he is, but does anyone here wish we'd shelled out $153 million for him?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    At the very least this ought to preclude any rational person from complaining that the Red Sox didn't do enough to retain him. I like Ellsbury for what he is, but does anyone here wish we'd shelled out $153 million for him?




    Actually AL34 was whining about it last night and was criticizing Ben.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    At the very least this ought to preclude any rational person from complaining that the Red Sox didn't do enough to retain him. I like Ellsbury for what he is, but does anyone here wish we'd shelled out $153 million for him?



    Nice post.  Not me!

    That leopard hasn't changed its spots.  This is just a matter of the Yankees going back to being THE YANKEES -The Best Team Money Can Buy. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Whats their rotation look like?

    CC - aging and coming off a bad year

    Nova - inconsistent

    Pineda - always hurt

    Phelps - who?

    Warren - who?

    no closer - no more Mo

    Sorry guys, but unless they get a couple solid starters and a true closer its all for nothing. they might have a better lineup with Ells, but their rotation and bullpen are very questionable. Im sure they arent done yet, but will need much better pitching than what they currently have.

    pitching wins championships as we saw this year and in years past.

    They can have Ellsbury for 22M per.



    We all know Ells won't give the Yankees much more than Granderson so no big deal. 

    I just have one question for Yank fans?  Does your FO party so much they forget how many times Boras has burned them or just don't care if they can grab an ex Sox player?  Either way  Ells is another Damon and both parties got what they wanted.  Ells got the money and the Yanks get two or maybe three good years out of another long term grossly overpaid contract.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    At the very least this ought to preclude any rational person from complaining that the Red Sox didn't do enough to retain him. I like Ellsbury for what he is, but does anyone here wish we'd shelled out $153 million for him?




    Actually AL34 was whining about it last night and was criticizing Ben.




    Wow...I have to find this. BDC never ceases to amaze.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    Not that this really matters at this point, but I can't help but wonder how they got to that $153M.  Did another team offer $150 and the Yankees had to beat it?  Are there two teams who are that dumb?  Or did Boras get the Yankees to bid against themselves? 

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Whats their rotation look like?

    CC - aging and coming off a bad year

    Nova - inconsistent

    Pineda - always hurt

    Phelps - who?

    Warren - who?

    no closer - no more Mo

    Sorry guys, but unless they get a couple solid starters and a true closer its all for nothing. they might have a better lineup with Ells, but their rotation and bullpen are very questionable. Im sure they arent done yet, but will need much better pitching than what they currently have.

    pitching wins championships as we saw this year and in years past.

    They can have Ellsbury for 22M per.

     

     




     

     

     

    I just answered you / this in the other thread

    got to say I'm surprised / disapointed this is  coming form you 777

    do you really think the yanks  don't know they need pitching

    Bcash is all ready on record as saying he's looking for 2 200 inning guys

     

    yanks have a lot of holes to fill but as far as starters go

    I  think the yanks and other GM's as well as the big FA arms

    are all waiting for the tanaka biding to get done

    also still waiting on kuroda and then if they fail there they go with a garza or a jimenez

     

    yanks also need to wait for arod and cano news B4 they can address the BP and other holes

     




    This is why I said they arent done yet. C'mon zac, disappointed? I would figure you would know me by now and have enough respect that I understand whats involved and everything going on. I go it covered already. But thanks for the concern. I know they understand what they have and need.

     

    22M for 7 guarenteed years (8th option yr) with a NTC for Ells is stupid. Plain and simple. 

    Why do they have to wait for arod and Cano? They NEED a closer and SP regardless, unless they still plan on staying under 189M.

     



    greetings 777

    disappointed? I would figure you would know me by now and have enough respect that I understand whats involved and everything going on.

     

    that's exactly why I said I was disapointed, it was a compliment,

    I'm never disapointed in a KST post

    the way I interpreted your OP was U were were impling the yanks didn't know

    they needed to get pitching also


    22M for 7 guarenteed years (8th option yr) with a NTC for Ells is stupid. Plain and simple.

    LOL why bring up the no trade

    isn't the contract it's self a no trade

    didn't craw have a no trade

     


    Why do they have to wait for arod and Cano?

    not only R U talking 50 mill a yr to have 2 spend  or not

    it's a question of do they also need to fill those positions

    They NEED a closer and SP regardless, unless they still plan on staying under 189M.

    not sure they need a closer, but BP pen help yes

    U don't see the merit in waiting 2C what happens with tanaka

    it's not like the other big FA arms are falling off the menu

    not sure about the 189 but as of now it's still in play

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to S5's comment:

    Not that this really matters at this point, but I can't help but wonder how they got to that $153M.  Did another team offer $150 and the Yankees had to beat it?  Are there two teams who are that dumb?  Or did Boras get the Yankees to bid against themselves? 




    They just offered 22M per because they know a team could pay 20M for him at 6-7 years, so they just made it so no team could match them. 7yrs 153M with an 8th option AND a NTC was NOT going to be matched, and Ellsbury and Boras knew that. NYY didnt want him to make it to Orlando for the WM. Plain and simple. They went where no team would.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Whats their rotation look like?

    CC - aging and coming off a bad year

    Nova - inconsistent

    Pineda - always hurt

    Phelps - who?

    Warren - who?

    no closer - no more Mo

    Sorry guys, but unless they get a couple solid starters and a true closer its all for nothing. they might have a better lineup with Ells, but their rotation and bullpen are very questionable. Im sure they arent done yet, but will need much better pitching than what they currently have.

    pitching wins championships as we saw this year and in years past.

    They can have Ellsbury for 22M per.

     

     




     

     

     

    I just answered you / this in the other thread

    got to say I'm surprised / disapointed this is  coming form you 777

    do you really think the yanks  don't know they need pitching

    Bcash is all ready on record as saying he's looking for 2 200 inning guys

     

    yanks have a lot of holes to fill but as far as starters go

    I  think the yanks and other GM's as well as the big FA arms

    are all waiting for the tanaka biding to get done

    also still waiting on kuroda and then if they fail there they go with a garza or a jimenez

     

    yanks also need to wait for arod and cano news B4 they can address the BP and other holes




    This is why I said they arent done yet. C'mon zac, disappointed? I would figure you would know me by now and have enough respect that I understand whats involved and everything going on. I go it covered already. But thanks for the concern. I know they understand what they have and need.

    22M for 7 guarenteed years (8th option yr) with a NTC for Ells is stupid. Plain and simple. 

    Why do they have to wait for arod and Cano? They NEED a closer and SP regardless, unless they still plan on staying under 189M.

     



    greetings 777

    disappointed? I would figure you would know me by now and have enough respect that I understand whats involved and everything going on.

     

    that's exactly why I said I was disapointed

    the way I interpreted your OP was U were were impling the yanks didn't know

    they needed to get pitching also


    22M for 7 guarenteed years (8th option yr) with a NTC for Ells is stupid. Plain and simple.

    LOL why bring up the no trade

    isn't the contract it's self a no trade

    didn't craw have a no trade

     


    Why do they have to wait for arod and Cano?

    not only R U talking 50 mill a yr to have 2 spend  or not

    it's a question of do they also need to fill those positions

    They NEED a closer and SP regardless, unless they still plan on staying under 189M.

    not sure they need a closer, but BP pen yes

    U don't see the merit in waiting 2C what happens with tanaka

    it's not like the other big FA arms are falling off the menu

    not sure about the 189 but as of now it's still in play

     

     

    Hey zac...

    NO, I dont believe CC had a NTC. That was Beckett

    You mentioned waiting to see what happens with ARod and Cano first, which is what I was referring to, Not Tanaka. Waiting to see what happens with ARod and Cano shouldnt matter when they need pitching is what I was saying.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    GM craze


    We all know Ells won't give the Yankees much more than Granderson so no big deal.

    good point, a slightly younger plus lead off guy vs a plus power guy

    but we didn't have either one of them last yr so it does make them better

     

     

    I just have one question for Yank fans?  Does your FO party so much they forget how many times Boras has burned them or just don't care if they can grab an ex Sox player?  Either way  Ells is another Damon and both parties got what they wanted.  Ells got the money and the Yanks get two or maybe three good years out of another long term grossly overpaid contract.

    while I view them as part of the price of living in the FA world

    I'm fine with anyone who wants to knock long term deals

    but don't agree with blaming boras , craw had a different agent

    as does pujols

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

     

     

    I have to admit,I thought this was pretty funny.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    777

    Hey zac...

    NO, I dont believe CC had a NTC. That was Beckett

    You mentioned waiting to see what happens with ARod and Cano first, which is what I was referring to, Not Tanaka. Waiting to see what happens with ARod and Cano shouldnt matter when they need pitching is what I was saying.

    I hope U saw my edit where I said

    that's exactly why I said I was disapointed, it was a compliment,

    I'm never disapointed in a KST post

    looked it up craw had a partial no trade

    I'm thinking knowing what happens with cano & arod

    has something to do with which FA SP you can bring in

    once again this is this really  an issue until the of the top SPs sign elsewhere

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    Bcash is all ready on record as saying he's looking for 2 200 inning guys


    Easy to say, not so easy to do...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    Kuroda is an animal. He's my #1 in NY for at least 3 more years!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    Not that this really matters at this point, but I can't help but wonder how they got to that $153M.  Did another team offer $150 and the Yankees had to beat it?  Are there two teams who are that dumb?  Or did Boras get the Yankees to bid against themselves? 




    They just offered 22M per because they know a team could pay 20M for him at 6-7 years, so they just made it so no team could match them. 7yrs 153M with an 8th option AND a NTC was NOT going to be matched, and Ellsbury and Boras knew that. NYY didnt want him to make it to Orlando for the WM. Plain and simple. They went where no team would.



    If this is true - and I believe it probably is - it means that they negotiated against themselves.  They threw a huge amount of money at him, more than anyone else might, and it worked.  It's a good way to do business -  if you can affford it.

    Now let's see what they do with Cano.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    Not that this really matters at this point, but I can't help but wonder how they got to that $153M.  Did another team offer $150 and the Yankees had to beat it?  Are there two teams who are that dumb?  Or did Boras get the Yankees to bid against themselves? 




    They just offered 22M per because they know a team could pay 20M for him at 6-7 years, so they just made it so no team could match them. 7yrs 153M with an 8th option AND a NTC was NOT going to be matched, and Ellsbury and Boras knew that. NYY didnt want him to make it to Orlando for the WM. Plain and simple. They went where no team would.



    If this is true - and I believe it probably is - it means that they negotiated against themselves.  They threw a huge amount of money at him, more than anyone else might, and it worked.  It's a good way to do business -  if you can affford it.

    Now let's see what they do with Cano.




    I hope they sign him.

    Then, wait around and put all their eggs in the Tanaka basket.

    Tanaka could be another Darvish or another Dice-K.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: NYY get Ells, but....

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Kuroda is an animal. He's my #1 in NY for at least 3 more years!




    Yeah, he was a real beast in Aug and Sept.

     
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