OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]WHY? his batting average for the past 3 years <0.250 with about 20 HR and you want to spend 31 mil over three years? If Sox are willing to spend that kind of money then I say go after Beltran who should be great for next 2-3 years. I think it would definately make the Sox offense better so they can afford to lose players that are marketed by Mr. Boraaas. I think if the Sox can sign Beltran and trade Ells for SP, it would be a improvment to last years talent. This is probably be the best move they can make without spending too much this year. I am saying this with the assumption that Beltran's market is <10mil/year.  
    Posted by lhtak[/QUOTE]
    Last season 34-year-old Carlos Beltran was valued at 4.7 WAR* while 28-year-old Chris Young was valued at 4.6 WAR.

    Young carries a minimum commitment of $17 million over two seasons with a team option for $26.5 million total over three seasons. I doubt Beltran will cost less under a two-year contract.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]There are six teams that have two outfielders with salaries that total $30 mil. or more and there will be more by the time that Ellsbury becomes a free agent.  This potential problem has been vastly overstated. I prefer to enjoy Ellsbury for two more years and enjoy the games on TV. I won't lose any sleep worrying about the "problem" until then. The speculation about him not wanting to play injured was concocted by the King of the Trolls named Softlaw. It was never proven. Just more pot stirring in a boring forum in an effort to liven it up. Much ado about nothing. You don't have a clue about Ellsbury's attitude - that is 100% unadulterated BS.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    I dont care about his attitude as long he puts up numbers like last years. Coaches are there to manage people and Bobby-V will take care of that and its his job. My problem with Ells is this; in most likely hood he is not going to sustain last years performance and I think he reached plateau with his performance. Why not cash in when he can get the best return in the trade market?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : Last season 34-year-old Carlos Beltran was valued at 4.7 WAR* while 28-year-old Chris Young was valued at 4.6 WAR. Young carries a minimum commitment of $17 million over two seasons with a team option for $26.5 million total over three seasons. I doubt Beltran will cost less under a two-year contract. * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    For the same money I will take Beltran over CY anyday. I realize the age of Beltran and I am not saying give him a decade contract but 2-3 year deal. He can solve the OF issue now and potentially DH issue coming years. This will also make the Sox offense much better so we can afford to lose players like Ells or Youk. At Fenway Beltran is bound to rake up his Avg and HR's. If we can sign Beltran for 2-3 year contract worth around 30mil that will be the best decision we can make this year.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : Young has the proper profile for what we need in RF (right handed, great against LH pitching), but given his youth and salary the cost in both salary and prospects would not be worth it. Repeat after me: as a hitter, Young is not an everyday player. He is an AWFUL hitter against RH pitching...the Sox would hate his OBP. He has tremendous skills, but he's a lot like a young Mike Cameron (with less discipline)...and we know how much Cameron was loved here. Your number projections would never happen because he wouldn't get enough playing him. The Bay comparison is a poor one. Yes, they are both RH, but that's about where it ends. Bay did NOT get a "boost" when he joined the Sox...he had better seasons in Pit and, in fact, only had one bad season before he joined the Mets. He's a really good hitter who is a bit better against LH pitching, but is also plenty good against RH pitching. He didn't offer Young's speed or defense, but his bat more than made up for it. Also, Young has been MUCH better at home in Ari (which is a major hitter's park) than away...if anything, his overall numbers would drop a hair in Boston. hill55, those fangraphs numbers aren't very helpful. A huge part of his "value" comes from defense, which is highly subjective and is still hard to compare to offensive contributions. His hitting contributions were not so special. And even if the defensive value is reliable, he wouldn't offer the same value in Boston if he played RF. Gardner's ranking overall is not a lie, if, again, you trust how defensive values are combined with hitting values. Gardner has been arguably the best fielding OFer the past two years, so that's where that comes from. Same with Zobrist. He's a very good offensive player (great at getting on base) who is a plus at whatever position he plays, and he plays a lot of them. You're right that no talent evaluator would rank Zobrist as a top OFer, as he isn't an OFer to begin with (he's a 2Bman more than anything, but he moves all over the place). He likely is not quite as valuable as his WAR places him, but that fact that you think there's "no way" he's anywhere near that value just goes to show that you don't understand how valuable he really is.
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    I am not saying Zobrist isn't very valuable, but they valued him at about 40mil for 2 years. Zobrist is not anywhere close to a 20mil a year player, I have no problem saying that and I fail to see how that shows how little I understand his value. He's not an 18 a year guy, not 15, not 12, and likely not ever 10. Potentially 10, but that's roughly half what the list had him at, which is not close. I stand by what I said.

    I confess I remembered Bay's average going up while he was here, upon further review, my opinion has been overturned. Maybe I was thinking VMart. Beltre? At any rate...

    With Young, I didn't realize so many people actually valued him. He garners very little interest in the fantasy sports realm, and nobody every talks about him in the real world. Suddenly, however, he's too expensive, or definitely not good enough. There certainly is no consensus, which is a good thing to me.

    At his age, with how he's done, on the team he's been on...I don't know. Anything's certainly possible, but I think he turns into a legit power hitter in Fenway, on this team. 27-29 is where players typically break out, and have their 'prime' years to 31/32. He's just entering that. He quite possibly could have too many bad habits to correct, but he's in the "goldilocks zone" of progression as far as I'm concerned. Most players at his age are likely to do better than they have in the years previous. If his next 4 years are as good or better than last year, sign me up. He'll be well worth 31 over 3.

    Beltran? Really? At 34? He played a full season last year...after missing more than half of each of the 2 previous seasons. No thanks.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    It must be very tough to be a Red Sox fan for many of you. The need to worry for what might happen two years down the road regarding Ellsbury. Speculating and guessing if player X will play hurt or not.  The facial disinterist of JD Drew. The complete distrust of the FO using statistics, scouts, and video. Papi being the subject of a joke by Pedroia and falling for it. The mortal sin of pitchers on their day off sending out for chicken and having a beer that was sanctioned in the clubouse by the FO. Having a fetish about being out of condition when El Guapo and David Wells were 50 lbs. overweight. How Bob Hohler has brainwashed many of you with one irresponsible, inaccurate article that the Globe refuses to send to the archives. Why not call all of this garbage and become positive fans?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : With Young, I didn't realize so many people actually valued him. He garners very little interest in the fantasy sports realm, and nobody every talks about him in the real world.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]
    Chris Young might not generate discussion among parochial East Coast fans, but the Arizona outfielder is highly regarded nationally (and Young was a mainstay of my 2011 fantasy team that abandoned the batting average category).
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    Is it crazy to think they can get Crisp for 2 years on the cheap for RF?  He's got the speed, good arm, solid average and great postseasons.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

        The Red Sox are as big a cash cow as any team in baseball save the Yanks and they want to pinch pennies in the free agent market.Perhaps we fans should should also hold on to our bucks with a tight grip.I would never suggest you not go to games(I know I will)but how about forgetting the concession stands totally(I know I will).One side note,I am getting woefully tired of a certain poster with many monikers and his constant bleatings to deal Ellsbury.We know how you feel,enough already.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In response to "Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?": [QUOTE]    The Red Sox are as big a cash cow as any team in baseball save the Yanks and they want to pinch pennies in the free agent market.Perhaps we fans should should also hold on to our bucks with a tight grip.I would never suggest you not go to games(I know I will)but how about forgetting the concession stands totally(I know I will).One side note,I am getting woefully tired of a certain poster with many monikers and his constant bleatings to deal Ellsbury.We know how you feel,enough already. Posted by kebbe[/QUOTE] Kebbe, are they "pinching pennies" or spending wisely? A team that spent in excess of 300 million dollars last year cannot be accused of being cheap. What free agent could they have signed or more importantly, SHOULD they have signed, that they didnt?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]I was basing it off the fact that Colby Rasmus (through CWS) only cost Jason Fraser and Zach Stewart - a decent P prospect. His scouting report: http://baseballnewshound.com/?p=633 Toronto technically traded Edwin Jackson for Rasmus, but had traded the above mentioned players for Jackson hours before. So, I really don't think it would take more than Kalish and a decent prospect. Maybe I overvalue Kalish, but it's not far off from what the market has shown for a player comparable to Young. Kalish and Doubront seems perfectly reaonable, maybe even a little much. Kalish is fairly highly regarded around baseball.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    It really doesn't work that way.  There are only two factors that influence a player's worth in a trade.  How much Team A wants to acquire him, and how much Team B wants to unload him.  If Team A wants to get him more than Team B wans to unoad him, the price goes up.  If Team B wants to unload the player more than other teams want to acqure him, the price goes down.

    Colby Rasmus was a case of Team B wanting to dump him more.

    Also, never use Kenny Williams as the Gold Standard for gaging realistic trades...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : Chris Young might not generate discussion among parochial East Coast fans, but the Arizona outfielder is highly regarded nationally (and Young was a mainstay of my 2011 fantasy team that abandoned the batting average category).
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    He also helped win 1400 this past season. You're right, maybe I just don't hear about him much around here because he's a west coast, NL player.

    I've liked him for a couple of years, Arizona seemingly can produce hitters, but seem to fast-track them to the bigs often cutting off their progression too early.

    He does seem to have more value, just basing it off of comments here, than I was giving him credit for. I thought he was undervalued, and overlooked because of Justin Upton. Perhaps I misjudged that. The bottom line (haha) is he's signed for 2 more years plus an option that I really don't think Arizona is going to be interested in very soon. The were the 25th highest payroll last year at about 53 million, Young was, and is, their highest paid player. I just don't see them committing 15-20% of the payroll to him going forward, he will likely be dealt either this year or next when the receiving team can still pick up his option. Count me as one of the people who'd like to see the Sox make a play for him. I don't think it's a matter of if he becomes available, simply when. Arizona is going to have to make decisions on: Young, Upton, Ian Kennedy, Montero, Cahill and Stephen Drew fairly soon. Some of those guys ARE going to be turned into prospects.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : He also helped win 1400 this past season. You're right, maybe I just don't hear about him much around here because he's a west coast, NL player. I've liked him for a couple of years, Arizona seemingly can produce hitters, but seem to fast-track them to the bigs often cutting off their progression too early. He does seem to have more value, just basing it off of comments here, than I was giving him credit for. I thought he was undervalued, and overlooked because of Justin Upton. Perhaps I misjudged that. The bottom line (haha) is he's signed for 2 more years plus an option that I really don't think Arizona is going to be interested in very soon. The were the 25th highest payroll last year at about 53 million, Young was, and is, their highest paid player. I just don't see them committing 15-20% of the payroll to him going forward, he will likely be dealt either this year or next when the receiving team can still pick up his option. Count me as one of the people who'd like to see the Sox make a play for him. I don't think it's a matter of if he becomes available, simply when. Arizona is going to have to make decisions on: Young, Upton, Ian Kennedy, Montero, Cahill and Stephen Drew fairly soon. Some of those guys ARE going to be turned into prospects.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Chris Young was drafted by the White Sox and dealt to the Diamondbacks in the Javier Vazquez trade.  He spent less than a full season in the DBacks farm system...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : He also helped win 1400 this past season. You're right, maybe I just don't hear about him much around here because he's a west coast, NL player. I've liked him for a couple of years, Arizona seemingly can produce hitters, but seem to fast-track them to the bigs often cutting off their progression too early. He does seem to have more value, just basing it off of comments here, than I was giving him credit for. I thought he was undervalued, and overlooked because of Justin Upton. Perhaps I misjudged that. The bottom line (haha) is he's signed for 2 more years plus an option that I really don't think Arizona is going to be interested in very soon. The were the 25th highest payroll last year at about 53 million, Young was, and is, their highest paid player. I just don't see them committing 15-20% of the payroll to him going forward, he will likely be dealt either this year or next when the receiving team can still pick up his option. Count me as one of the people who'd like to see the Sox make a play for him. I don't think it's a matter of if he becomes available, simply when. Arizona is going to have to make decisions on: Young, Upton, Ian Kennedy, Montero, Cahill and Stephen Drew fairly soon. Some of those guys ARE going to be turned into prospects.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]
    On Arizona's Opening Day payroll in 2011, Kelly Johnson and Joe Saunders earned more than Chris Young. Next season, Stephen Drew and likely Jason Kubel are scheduled to earn more than Chris Young and the following season Justin Upton will earn more.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dGNsa0N2Rm4taWZ0bmdvaW5FNDJvT2c&output=html
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? : On Arizona's Opening Day payroll in 2011, Kelly Johnson and Joe Saunders earned more than Chris Young. Next season, Stephen Drew and likely Jason Kubel are scheduled to earn more than Chris Young and the following season Justin Upton will earn more. https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dGNsa0N2Rm4taWZ0bmdvaW5FNDJvT2c&output=html
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Even less reason they can keep carrying all this money! haha you and your more current information.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    think more in the line of...ryan ludwick...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]What the HELL is your problem with Ellsbury? Why do you HATE him so much? Everytime I visit this site it's offer Ellsbury and blocked prospects this or that. In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young? :
    Posted by BBfan67[/QUOTE]

    He has an issue admitting mistakes.

    He said Cameron should start and Ellsbury should be on the bench.

    Ellsbury started and was the best player in BB, making Softy's idea arguably the worst idea in BB history.    Instead of blaming himself for his own ignorance, he blames Ellsbury.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    Oakland just designated Jai Miller, to make room on their 40-man for the 4 players they just acquired for Gio.  Miller is 26, right-handed and has played all 3 OF positions.  He hit 32 HRs at AAA last year.  I think the Sox should put in a waiver claim.  If Andruw Jones would come here on an incentive laden deal, I would like to see that.  But Miller could be just as good as Young or Ross, and for a lot less.  At least he is worth a look.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?

    In Response to Re: OF help? Why not see about Chris Young?:
    [QUOTE]Oakland just designated Jai Miller, to make room on their 40-man for the 4 players they just acquired for Gio.  Miller is 26, right-handed and has played all 3 OF positions.  He hit 32 HRs at AAA last year.  I think the Sox should put in a waiver claim.  If Andruw Jones would come here on an incentive laden deal, I would like to see that.  But Miller could be just as good as Young or Ross, and for a lot less.  At least he is worth a look.
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]
    For what it's worth, Jai Miller struck out 179 times last season at Triple A Sacramento.
     

Share