Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from -EdithBunker-. Show -EdithBunker-'s posts

    Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    WEEI:

    With the retirement of Lakers coach Phil Jackson, Patriots coach Bill Belichick is now the highest-paid coach in the four major professional sports, according to Forbes. The Patriots have never publicly disclosed Belichick's contract situation, but the magazine estimates Belichick takes home an annual salary of $7.5 million. Belichick edges out Seattle's Pete Carroll and Washington's Mike Shanahan, both of whom make an estimated $7 million annually, according to Forbes. (Doc Rivers also just joined the $7 million club — he inked a new deal with the Celtics earlier this week.) Francona is making $4 million this season, his eighth in Boston.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Belichick because NFL coaches have more impact on the result than any other sports head coaches/managers do.

    IMO the NFL is a coach's league, the NBA a player's league, MLB a GM's league and the NHL is actually closest to the NFL in how much a coach and system can impact the result.

    But with their TV contracts and limited appeal outside of hot bed regions NHL coaching will never generate the money of the big three sports for the head man.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Do you know what Julien's contract status is? I think he has the most pressure on him to bring home a championship given the recent titles the other 3 Boston teams have won in the last 10 years.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]Do you know what Julien's contract status is? I think he has the most pressure on him to bring home a championship given the recent titles the other 3 Boston teams have won in the last 10 years.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan[/QUOTE]He is signed through 2012-2013.

    It is funny because the only LA team I adopted when I moved here was the LA Kings and did so because they played a much more open style of hockey than the B's in the 80's even BG (Before Gretzky). When I listen to WEEI streaming I can't believe how harsh the fans are on Julien because honestly the team does as well as it does because he has them play a very disciplined system and Tim Thomas has been a revelation between the pipes. But when I hear they are too talented not to win the Cup and then watch teams like the Red Wings, Sharks and Canucks I scratch my head.

    Julien may be just like his system and much of the talent on the team, deliberate, plodding and a bit unexciting but he seems to me to have been effective.

    But then again when listening to WEEI or reading 30% of the posts here you'd think that Francona was the worst manager that ever lived and the 2010 RS even with all the injuries were the 27 NYY.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    "IMO the NFL is a coach's league, the NBA a player's league, MLB a GM's league and the NHL is actually closest to the NFL in how much a coach and system can impact the result."

    Pretty good summary fivekatz.  Can't say I disagree

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    To play Devils advocate.....  In the NFL coaching staffs are huge and in many cases on one side of the ball the defensive or offensive coordinator is pretty much in charge.  Guys like BB and Shannahan have bigger salaries, I would assume, because they have personel decisions that go beyond coaching so that is probably figured into their salary.  (Sidebar--  Shannahan has got to be one the most over-rated coaches of all time.  He inherited a great situation in Denver and once Elway and TD were gone he never really built them beyond mediocrity.  Why he took the Washington job I can't figure.  Must've just been the money because that is a disfunctional franchise in a tough division, and they are still headed in the wrong direction.)

    The NBA is a players league but their definitely is a difference between well coached teams and teams coached by guys who don't get it.  People who think coaching doesn't matter in the NBA, don't get the NBA.  Look at the Bulls this year and watch the Lakers next year minus Phil. 

    Baseball managers and NHL coaches just don't make as much across the board.

     I'd say Doc probably deserves the most pay right now.  I truly think he is the most important guy to his team because I don't know how well those vets would repsond to anyone other than Doc.  Plus, players respect and like Doc and that is real important with the Celtics needing to bring in some big free agents in the coming years.

    BB gets a ton of praise, deservedly so, but I really think his ego gets in the way sometimes and truly has cost the Pats at times.  It is like he wants to prove he is smarter than the game, that he can win with guys like Woodhead, Edelman, Green-Ellis, etc, because his systems and schemes are more important than the players.  But then he runs into a Jets team full of better athletes and what happens..... All of sudden elaborate passing plays to pick up 3rd and 2 don't look so smart.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    To answer the question originally asked (how'd the what coaches mean in their sport debate start?)...

    Hands down, Bill Belichick. Rivers was given the Big 3 and has Ainge. Francona inherited that whole team, and by his own admission in 04 just had to "stay out of their way", and has Epstein and deep pockets from management. Julien hasn't done anything yet. But BB, he took over a team trending horribly down, and in his second season won the SB with an unknown, back-up QB after the $100mil franchise QB got hurt. He made a tough decision to let an injury cost Bledsoe his job, and if you remember at the time, the fans were split 50/50 on that one. He's done so much in the most competitive league, outdrafting and outcoaching his opponents most of the time. He's been dominant, and he runs the whole team. In fact, in my estimation, you could add up the other 3 salaries, and that amount would be fair in comparison to the other Boston coaches in my mind.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Don't play the devil's advocate. We already have Softlaw doing that and he is the magician of doing that in the forum since nearly everyone in the forum continues to fall for the routine and takes him seriously. I stand corrected, strike that comment.  If you come here to be entertained by fake acts, pretension, and dishonesty and insincerity then you should add to the side show.

     The Boston Globe has a vested interest that you play the role of devil's advocate, contrarian, pot stirrer, or spectator. They want this forum to have as much traffic as possible and their advertisers will pay more based on the hits to this forum as well as other forums. They probably love trolls since it translates into higher profits.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]To play Devils advocate.....  In the NFL coaching staffs are huge and in many cases on one side of the ball the defensive or offensive coordinator is pretty much in charge.  Guys like BB and Shannahan have bigger salaries, I would assume, because they have personel decisions that go beyond coaching so that is probably figured into their salary.  (Sidebar--  Shannahan has got to be one the most over-rated coaches of all time.  He inherited a great situation in Denver and once Elway and TD were gone he never really built them beyond mediocrity.  Why he took the Washington job I can't figure.  Must've just been the money because that is a disfunctional franchise in a tough division, and they are still headed in the wrong direction.) The NBA is a players league but their definitely is a difference between well coached teams and teams coached by guys who don't get it.  People who think coaching doesn't matter in the NBA, don't get the NBA.  Look at the Bulls this year and watch the Lakers next year minus Phil.  Baseball managers and NHL coaches just don't make as much across the board.  I'd say Doc probably deserves the most pay right now.  I truly think he is the most important guy to his team because I don't know how well those vets would repsond to anyone other than Doc.  Plus, players respect and like Doc and that is real important with the Celtics needing to bring in some big free agents in the coming years. BB gets a ton of praise, deservedly so, but I really think his ego gets in the way sometimes and truly has cost the Pats at times.  It is like he wants to prove he is smarter than the game, that he can win with guys like Woodhead, Edelman, Green-Ellis, etc, because his systems and schemes are more important than the players.  But then he runs into a Jets team full of better athletes and what happens..... All of sudden elaborate passing plays to pick up 3rd and 2 don't look so smart.
    Posted by Calmy[/QUOTE]

    A lot of people say this, I just don't get it. 1) Hasn't he proved himself to be smarter than most? I think he has, when it comes to football at least. 2) Interesting you went went with BJGE and Woodhead, as he just spent a 2nd AND 3rd rounder on RBs, kind of hinting that he didn't do that by choice last year, he had to.

    I guess i just don't get the whole ego thing that people accuse him of. Because he shuns the media? I would. Because he does his own thing at draft time, often leaving the "experts" scratching their heads on the set with "reach" picks like...oh, Vollmer, Mankins, McCourty and such. He spends to the cap every year, if one position is lacking, it's because the money went elsewhere. If it were possible to have all stars at every position, I bet he'd be the one to figure it out. Very, very few ex players have ever had a bad word to say about the guy...I just don't get why people think he has a huge ego. Maybe he does, but he doesn't show it to me.

    Shanahan, Parcells, Jerry Jones...those are guys who's ego I think DOES get in the way. Maybe not Parcells, but I won't pass up an opportunity to dump on him.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In fact, every time the "experts" LIKE a BB early round pick...IT S U C K S! Maroney was applauded. Meriweather was said to be a solid pick for them. Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson were EXCELLENT guys to pair with Brady!

    Although, everyone liked Wilfork at 21.

    And add Mayo to the reach list, at the time, he was viewed as a pick in the teens, not a huge reach at all, but I remember people talking about how it was "a little early" to take him. Yeah, ROY at 10 is a reach.

    Now I'm sure, BB IS smarter than pretty much everyone else in the football world.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]To answer the question originally asked (how'd the what coaches mean in their sport debate start?)... Hands down, Bill Belichick. Rivers was given the Big 3 and has Ainge. Francona inherited that whole team, and by his own admission in 04 just had to "stay out of their way", and has Epstein and deep pockets from management. Julien hasn't done anything yet. But BB, he took over a team trending horribly down, and in his second season won the SB with an unknown, back-up QB after the $100mil franchise QB got hurt. He made a tough decision to let an injury cost Bledsoe his job, and if you remember at the time, the fans were split 50/50 on that one. He's done so much in the most competitive league, outdrafting and outcoaching his opponents most of the time. He's been dominant, and he runs the whole team. In fact, in my estimation, you could add up the other 3 salaries, and that amount would be fair in comparison to the other Boston coaches in my mind.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    All good points, but right now Doc seems like the more important commodity to me.  BB is getting dangerously close to the 'what have you done for me lately' category, which is produce some great regular seasons.  There are way more guys coaching in the NFL who have won championships, than there are in the NBA.  The Brady/Bledsoe thing was 10 years ago.  Other NFL franchises have been roughly as consistent as the Pats have over the last 6 years.  Pitt, Balt, Phi, Indy, SD, NYG, GB, NO, have all had comparable success to the Pats since BB last won a Super Bowl.  While the Celtics have without question been the 2nd most dominant team of the last 4 years.

    In some ways it is comparing apples and oranges because of the difference of the leagues, which is probably why the importance of coach in sport debate began.  The NFL is a league of parity, so as you point out, that makes BB's accomplishments more impressive, where as the NBA is and always will be a stars league, where the teams with the best 1-2 individuals in the league generally rise to the top, regardless of guys 5-12 on the roster.

    I just think as the Celtics try to transition out of the KG, Ray, PP, era, having an elite coach, that can attract elite players to want to come play in boston is huge. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Bill should be paid most.  Taking nothing away from the other 3, but Bill is arguably the greatest NFL coach/ NFL mind of all time.
     
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    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]To play Devils advocate.....  In the NFL coaching staffs are huge and in many cases on one side of the ball the defensive or offensive coordinator is pretty much in charge.  Guys like BB and Shannahan have bigger salaries, I would assume, because they have personel decisions that go beyond coaching so that is probably figured into their salary.  (Sidebar--  Shannahan has got to be one the most over-rated coaches of all time.  He inherited a great situation in Denver and once Elway and TD were gone he never really built them beyond mediocrity.  Why he took the Washington job I can't figure.  Must've just been the money because that is a disfunctional franchise in a tough division, and they are still headed in the wrong direction.) The NBA is a players league but their definitely is a difference between well coached teams and teams coached by guys who don't get it.  People who think coaching doesn't matter in the NBA, don't get the NBA.  Look at the Bulls this year and watch the Lakers next year minus Phil.  Baseball managers and NHL coaches just don't make as much across the board.  I'd say Doc probably deserves the most pay right now.  I truly think he is the most important guy to his team because I don't know how well those vets would repsond to anyone other than Doc.  Plus, players respect and like Doc and that is real important with the Celtics needing to bring in some big free agents in the coming years. BB gets a ton of praise, deservedly so, but I really think his ego gets in the way sometimes and truly has cost the Pats at times.  It is like he wants to prove he is smarter than the game, that he can win with guys like Woodhead, Edelman, Green-Ellis, etc, because his systems and schemes are more important than the players.  But then he runs into a Jets team full of better athletes and what happens..... All of sudden elaborate passing plays to pick up 3rd and 2 don't look so smart.

    Posted by Calmy[/QUOTE]

    Notice that belicheat hasn't won the big one since weis, crennel and pioli left.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]Belichick because NFL coaches have more impact on the result than any other sports head coaches/managers do. IMO the NFL is a coach's league, the NBA a player's league, MLB a GM's league and the NHL is actually closest to the NFL in how much a coach and system can impact the result. But with their TV contracts and limited appeal outside of hot bed regions NHL coaching will never generate the money of the big three sports for the head man.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid? : Notice that belicheat hasn't won the big one since weis, crennel and pioli left.
    Posted by --The--Babe--1[/QUOTE]

    He hasn't won a play-off game in 3 years.  1 more year of that and the Pats will be NFL version of the Dallas Mavericks from earlier this decade.  Great regular season team, too soft to win in the play-offs. 

    Pats fans don't want to hear it, but Donovan McNabb and Terrell Owens played together in Philly a long time ago. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Forgetting the individuals involved NFL head coaches should and are paid more than other coaches. The have a greater impact on the end result. I have often thought that baseball managers should be called head coaches and NFL head coaches called managers.

    That said Boston has become a very spoiled sports market IMO. The Celtics go 22 years without being particularly relevant and they play an awesome stretch where they win well over 50 games 4 years in a row, four playoff appearances, 2 to the second round, two finals appearances and one championship. And the city is ready to string Ainge up because the team is aging and his attempt to make the team more athletic at the deadline failed.

    The Patriots in a sport with total parity from cap to scheduling have managed to be highly competitive every year and before you all say its having Brady, they went 11-5 without him. And some how Belichick is over rated. And in the context of the question, Belichick operates as both coach and head player personnel executive. That alone makes him worthy of the highest pay.

    Julien has put up 90 to 100 point seasons every year with a team that has 45% of its hard cap committed to a defenseman and a goalie. They are not a highly skilled team and yet he is a stiff.

    And then of course there is Francona who is a regular feature on this board who has only been the manager during the greatest prolonged run of success in the franchise's post dead ball history.

    At some point the karma train is going to pull into the station and the RS will perform as they did in the 50's, the C's the 90's, the Pats the 90's and the Bruins the 50's.

    And then it will be the head guys are stiffs, nothing like when we had Rivers, Julien, Bellichick and Francona in this town. Rick Patino may have been the worst NBA coach/exec in the history of the game but his observation about negativity wasn't too far off.


     
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    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]And then it will be the head guys are stiffs, nothing like when we had Rivers, Julien, Bellichick and Francona in this town. Rick Patino may have been the worst NBA coach/exec in the history of the game but his observation about negativity wasn't too far off.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Very true.  We are spoiled fans right now.  Funny you should mention Pitino, because when I hear people say "coaching doesn't matter in the NBA" I say "Rick Pitino". 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]Bill should be paid most.  Taking nothing away from the other 3, but Bill is arguably the greatest NFL coach/ NFL mind of all time.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    I agree that he is probably one of the best NFL coaches ever. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid? : Very true.  We are spoiled fans right now.  Funny you should mention Pitino, because when I hear people say "coaching doesn't matter in the NBA" I say "Rick Pitino". 
    Posted by Calmy[/QUOTE]So true. Much like Nick Saben and Steve Sperier Rick are guys much better suited to the college game in their sport. Rick's ego has always been much bigger than his talent and in a room full of the egos in a players sport it just won't ever pay well. And that is before we get into Rick's astute ability to indentify that his future laid with Antoine Walker and not Chauncy Billups.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid? : Very true.  We are spoiled fans right now.  Funny you should mention Pitino, because when I hear people say "coaching doesn't matter in the NBA" I say "Rick Pitino". 
    Posted by Calmy[/QUOTE]

    I still have nightmares when I hear his name.  He was one of the worst NBA coaches ever and I only hope that he never coaches in the NBA again. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Belli should be the lowest paid coach.

    The Pats have lost their last 3 post season games.  They haven't won a playoff game since 2007. Belli is coasting on past accomplishments.  One more post season performance like last year, and he should be fired.

    For the past 3 years, Belli has by far the worst post season record or all of the head coaches in NE professional sports.

    Belli travels to away games 8 times a year.  All of the other coaches spend way more time of the road and away from their families.  Tito, Claude,and Doc have a much bigger impact on their teams' revenue. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    Baseball > Football > Hockey > Basketball

    In an objective sense. Lots of variables that can move things around.
     
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    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid? : I still have nightmares when I hear his name.  He was one of the worst NBA coaches ever and I only hope that he never coaches in the NBA again. 
    Posted by susan250[/QUOTE]

    I'd be fine with it if he wanted to take Phil Jackson's vacancy.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?

    In Response to Re: Of the 4 professional Boston coaches who deserves to be the highest paid?:
    [QUOTE]Belli should be the lowest paid coach. The Pats have lost their last 3 post season games.  They haven't won a playoff game since 2007. Belli is coasting on past accomplishments.  One more post season performance like last year, and he should be fired. For the past 3 years, Belli has by far the worst post season record or all of the head coaches in NE professional sports. Belli travels to away games 8 times a year.  All of the other coaches spend way more time of the road and away from their families.  Tito, Claude,and Doc have a much bigger impact on their teams' revenue. 
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    As if to prove fivekatz point...
     
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