Off-day Ode to James Arness

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    But I have to take umbrage with SoxSoldRed on his complaints about the current generation (s).  He of course wouldn't know about sacrifice because he never served, but these kids today, who keep going back to Iraq and Afghanistan, are just as good as the "greatest generation" and maybe even better for having to go back repeatedly and deal with a very complex and hostile/lethal environment. 

    I would know about sacrifice, because my grandfather and father served, and our family lost 3 members in WWI and WWII. I signed up for the draft in 1974, received #221 in the final draft lottery. I didn't burn my draft card, as I still have it. I certainly wished I did serve, as it would have separated me from the disgraceful characters I went to public schools with.
     
    The kids of today who serve are not representative of the prevailing values of the generation of their parents and political leaders. My son-in-law is now serving in the middle east and he was ridiculed while in high school ROTC and college ROTC. My generation continues to disgrace the Nation with the worst leadership in American history.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Gunsmoke was perhaps the most overrated television show in history...went on forever and nary a memorable episode worth watching again...having said that I thought Arness was the best thing about the mediocre show.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    SoxSoldRed, nothing prevented you from volunteering, as many/most of the soldiers in Vietnam did--a higher percentage (of volunteers) than served in WW II.   When you consider how far away that war (Vietnam) was and how hard it was to understand why we were there (and whether we would succeed), my hats off to all the Vietnam veterans.  A tough war.  But Vietnam Veterans of America say 90% of Vietnam veterans would do it again, even knowing what they know now.  My dad, now dead, brother, and I all felt that way. 

    But at least it had a beginning and an end.  This one today just keeps going on, and everyone who goes and goes again is a volunteer.  Hats off to all of them.  And to the Doughboys in the trenches of WW I and the 15 million who served in the Army, Navy, Air Corps, and Marines (and Merchant Marines) of World War II. 

    As for your son-in-law, he absolutely is not the first serviceman scorned by John Q Public--although that is pretty rare these days--or by members of academia.  My dad (served in WW II, Korea, and Vietnam) remembered being spat upon in uniform right after World War II.   That's right.  There were plenty of civilians who resented those who served in World War II.  Remember that civilian at the bar in the movie, The Best Years of Our Lives? 

    World War II was the "good" war that everyone got behind because the threat was real, Hitler was a great villain, and the Japanese looked different from us (most of us, anyway).  But in the summer of 1941--almost two years after Hitler invaded Poland and one year after he took France and during the Battle of Britain--the pusillanimous US Congress passed the Selective Service Act by exactly one vote. 

    My view is that every generation produces the necessary volunteers or draftees who serve their country well and who are even heroic.   Some generations may produce better leaders than others.    Most American Presidents back into wars, which in a democracy is how it should be, and some are better than others in prosecuting wars.  I give Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman, and Bush I pretty high marks, but low marks to Wilson, LBJ, and Bush II. 

    Anyway, hats off to James Arness for doing his duty.  James Garner, too, who got two purple hearts in Korea. 

    John Walton, Sam's son, quit college, joined the Army and became a special forces medic--and was awarded a silver star in Vietnam.  Donald Graham, son of Katharine Graham of the Wash Post, graduated from Harvard, joined the Army, and served a year in Vietnam with the 1st Cav Div.  More to the point, he's very proud of that service.  I've met people like him all over the country.  So I just can't agree with your assessment of your generation. 
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Max, that post was very heart-felt, and quite expansive in scope. Thanks for sharing it. I can identify with Softy in the sense that our values have corroded over time. It's the eventual evolution of a free society.

    As a kid, I actually identified more with my grandparent's era than my own. And for the reasons he mentioned. But at the same time, I don't lose sight of the innovations of this day and age. Hell, we couldn't even connect like this in a distant era. Freedom always carries a price. When you think of all the lives lost or crippled, then look at what Arness was able to accomplish, it's a reminder of what so many might have been capable of.
    War is the last refuge...

    But I completely agree with you in that those committed to their country's service should be seen as gallant in any era.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    In Response to Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness:
    In Response to Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness : Actually, I like Garner better than Arness. He was in more stuff (movies) and Rockford was one of my favorite TV shows. Having said that, I agree with your statement (in bold). I'm glad you started this thread. I hope young posters on this board who never heard of him check out some Gunsmoke reruns. And sadly, I'm sure there are posters who when they saw the thread thought to themselves, "James who?" Too many young people today know next to nothing that didn't happen since they were 10. I was in the grocery store and was talking to the cashier about the Newman's Own brand, and how it was neat that the profits went to charity. I commented on how Newmanhardly needed the money, and the cashier made a comment about all the movies he made. The bagboy heard the comment, and said, "Oh, he made movies too?" I don't care if the kid was just 16 or 17. It's pretty pathetic that he didn't know Paul Newman was one of the great movie stars.
    Posted by royf19


    Ironic you should mention Paul Newman. I was thinking of him when I learned of the passing of Jim Arness. His death hit me the same way. Talk about someone who gave so much back, Newman's charitable contributions actually outweigh what he made in the movie business! He was one of a kind.

    It's truly sad he's already forgotten in his craft by the younger minds. Paul Newman was a brilliant, diverse actor. And a quality human being. He loved to cut up on the set, much like Arness. Some of those out-takes were funny as hell.
    And he raced cars professionally into his 70's!

    IMO, the quality of films made in his era has regressed.
    His films, like the Gunsmoke series, will always be memorable to those fortunate enough to enjoy them.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    SoxSoldRed, nothing prevented you from volunteering

    In fact, I couldn't volunteer until 1974, because I turned 18 in 1974. So much for that "draft dodger/wouldn't volunteer" captious remark. Know the facts, first. I had discussions with other teenage kids, most who were going to go to Canada. My cousin, two years older, was going to go to Canada. I went to college and law school, and "volunteered" for service though OCS. I was turned down during a time where the military budget was cut back under smiling Jimmy. In the early 90's, DS, I again attempted to "volunteer" for OCS/JAG, but was turned down. Those are the facts, and I'm not a Weiner. I can't say they wouldn't have taken me as an enlisted man, in 1974, but I tend to doubt it because of the way military is structured. If you are over qualified for what they are looking for and there isn't a war going on, they don't usually recruit for educated people for boot camp to do 2, 3 or 4 year hitches on the clock. One of best friends, last 20 years, is a high school dropout, was a crack shot hunter who attempted to join on his 18th birthday in 1966. He was turned down because they said one of his eyes was "legally blind". He and his buddies all drove up together in one car, to volunteer, and 3 of his buddies were accepted and two did tours in Vietnam and one died over there.   

    Most of the people I knew that were drafted for Vietnam were obviously older, born in 1948 to 1952. Many burned draft cards and went to Canada with the Weather Underground, mentors for current generational leadership. I was one of the only 18 year olds in my school that came in and registered for the draft without a served summons/warrant.

     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Direct Paternal Lineal ancestor was an officer in the Revolutionary War, survived, of course. No family members in the War of 1812. Direct Lineal Paternal ancestor was a Confederate Officer who was a POW but survived, of course. My Grandfather's first cousin died at Belleau Wood. My Grandfather served in Europe in WWI but made it through alright. My father served on a B-29 in WWII, and was on The Last Mission over Japan. Survived. My uncle was killed by a Kamikaze while serving in the U.S. Navy. He was a Rhodes Scholar. My oldest sister was the only immediate family member who was 18 during the Vietnam draft years of the conflict. Her first boyfriend was killed in 1965 in the first major infantry battle with the North Vietnamese.  Brother in law was a Huey Pilot and served in Vietnam in 1966. He survived it, but not without serious mental scars.

     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    DON`T MISS THE LATE NIGHT SHOW WITH HARNESS ON THE FRONT BURNER EVERY NIGHT STARTING AT 12:AM. 
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Geo: I honestly don't know what you were watching. Perhaps you don't care for westerns. But the subject matter of this western was expansive, and not limited to 'the west'. It dealt with subjects like prejudice and r-a-p-e, love and murder. And it did so in a professional, provocative manner.

    No dramatic show ran longer for a reason. It was very good. Some of the early stuff is dated, but you have to remember it began not long after TV was in it's infancy.

    When Mantley gained creative control in 1967, the episodes had much depth of character and plot line. If you think they were mediocre, you missed some of the best stuff ever aired IMO. For example, when you see Arness frantically whipping his horse at the beginning of several epiosodes, that came from a two-parter called "Nitro".

    It was as tense and emotional as it gets. {Bank robbers were using a new form of explosive: Nitro Glycerin. They hired a no-name to make it. One slip and...
    The guy - David Canary - did it strictly for the $$$. Then he found this chick and his life suddenly had meaning. But now with so much to lose, he lost his nerve.
    He even had town drunk Loui sub for him!

    In one last attempt to make a 'killing' or die trying, he attempted mixing it himself.
    The final scene shows the camera going back and forth: from Arness' frantic race against time trying to stop him - to the faces of the folks in Dodge. The silence. The sweat. The prayer from face to face.

    This is the one episode where Dillon did not get their in time. The explosion was felt by everybody who was touched by the victim}. To say it was riveting is understating it. IMO, I doubt you'll see anything of higher quality.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    In Response to Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness:
    JOHN WAYNE did recommend ARNESS to play MATT DILLON. in fact, WAYNE, who CBS actually wanted to play the role, personally introduces ARNESS before the 1st episode of GUNSMOKE. WAYNE and ARNESS both worked together in the western HONDO. PS--as most of you already know, JAMES ARNESS was the older brother of PETER GRAVES.
    Posted by --the--yazzer
    And while we're on the subject, what exactly did that great american John Wayne do in WWII? The same thing saint Ronald Reagan did., he acted in movies. Unlike James Arness, a member of the infantry, Jack Kennedy who captained a PT boat and George McGovern who piloted a bomber.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    John Wayne definitely blew it, and John Ford never let him forget it.  I met Bob Feller two summers ago, and he was still very proud of his service in the Navy in WW II. Great guy, great pitcher.   World Wars I and II are the only wars in which a lot of ballplayers served. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Big Jim and his brother Peter Graves both passed away this year. Both fine actors IMO. TV was strongly regulated in the 50's and 60's You never saw anyone get shot or stabbed, you had to use your imagination. I liked his portrayel of Matt Dillion , the straight shooten plain talking Marshall of Dodge.

    My mom wouldn't let me watch Gunsmoke too violent, can you believe it. And Dragnet OMG no way . Very violent LOL. Those were the days of innocence in America , never to be seen again. RIP Big Jim and thanks for the memories.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    as long as we're mentioning john wayne not serving, how about ol'blue eyes, the well connected frank sinatra, who was classified 4-f. thank you mr. giaconi.
    and as far as the now generation not ever hearing of a lot of icons from the past, i'll quote bill maher from last friday's REAL TIME--"this is a dumb f'ing country."

    btw, what john wayne did in movies, ted williams did in real life.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    In Response to Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness:
    Geo: I honestly don't know what you were watching. Perhaps you don't care for westerns. But the subject matter of this western was expansive, and not limited to 'the west'. It dealt with subjects like prejudice and r-a-p-e, love and murder. And it did so in a professional, provocative manner. No dramatic show ran longer for a reason. It was very good. Some of the early stuff is dated, but you have to remember it began not long after TV was in it's infancy. When Mantley gained creative control in 1967, the episodes had much depth of character and plot line. If you think they were mediocre, you missed some of the best stuff ever aired IMO. For example, when you see Arness frantically whipping his horse at the beginning of several epiosodes, that came from a two-parter called "Nitro". It was as tense and emotional as it gets. {Bank robbers were using a new form of explosive: Nitro Glycerin. They hired a no-name to make it. One slip and... The guy - David Canary - did it strictly for the $$$. Then he found this chick and his life suddenly had meaning. But now with so much to lose, he lost his nerve. He even had town drunk Loui sub for him! In one last attempt to make a 'killing' or die trying, he attempted mixing it himself. The final scene shows the camera going back and forth: from Arness' frantic race against time trying to stop him - to the faces of the folks in Dodge. The silence. The sweat. The prayer from face to face. This is the one episode where Dillon did not get their in time. The explosion was felt by everybody who was touched by the victim}. To say it was riveting is understating it. IMO, I doubt you'll see anything of higher quality.
    Posted by harness


    I wouldn't call Gunsmoke overrated, but I can understand it not being everyone's cup of tea. It certainly was a different type of western. When I started watching Gunsmoke in reruns, I enjoyed it and can appreciate it being a great show. To me, the three great Western series are Big Valley, Bonanza and Gunsmoke. 

     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    3 greatest tv westerns imho:

    RAWHIDE
    HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL
    GUNSMOKE


    3 greatest movie westerns:

    SHANE
    UNFORGIVEN
    SEARCHERS

    greatest western of all time (it was a mini-series on CBS)

    LONESOME DOVE
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    yazzer, I would probably include Red River in those great movie westerns--with John Wayne, Montgomery Clift, Joanne Dru, Walter Brennan, John Ireland, and others.  Unforgiven is great, but depressing.  And, really, so is Searchers.  No quarrel with Lonesome Dove. 

    The point about westerns in movies, on TV, etc isn't that some were better than others, but that they are a great example of Americana.  Indians even got to star in some of them.  Wes Studi, the "bad" Indian (Magwa) in The Last of the Mohicans and also in Dances With Wolves, served in the US Army.  So did James Earl Jones, Clint Eastwood, Charles Durning, Mel Brooks, and Alan Alda.   Durning and Brooks were in WW II, but the others never quite made it overseas.   
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Noothing prevented you from volunteering

    I couldn't volunteer until 1974, because I turned 18 in 1974. So much for that "draft dodger/wouldn't volunteer" captious remark. Know the facts, first. I had discussions with other teenage kids, most who were going to go to Canada. My cousin, two years older, was going to go to Canada. I went to college and law school, and "volunteered" for service though OCS. I was turned down during a time where the military budget was cut back under smiling Jimmy. In the early 90's, DS, I again attempted to "volunteer" for OCS/JAG, but was turned down. Those are the facts, and I'm not a Weiner. I can't say they wouldn't have taken me as an enlisted man, in 1974, but I tend to doubt it because of the way military is structured. If you are over qualified for what they are looking for and there isn't a war going on, they don't usually recruit for educated people for boot camp to do 2, 3 or 4 year hitches on the clock. One of best friends, last 20 years, is a high school dropout, was a crack shot hunter who attempted to join on his 18th birthday in 1966. He was turned down because they said one of his eyes was "legally blind". He and his buddies all drove up together in one car, to volunteer, and 3 of his buddies were accepted and two did tours in Vietnam and one died over there.   

    Most of the people I knew that were drafted for Vietnam were obviously older, born in 1948 to 1952. Many burned draft cards and went to Canada with the Weather Underground, mentors for current generational leadership. I was one of the only 18 year olds in my school that came in and registered for the draft without a served summons/warrant.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    In Response to Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness:
    Noothing prevented you from volunteering I couldn't volunteer until 1974, because I turned 18 in 1974. So much for that "draft dodger/wouldn't volunteer" captious remark. Know the facts, first. I had discussions with other teenage kids, most who were going to go to Canada. My cousin, two years older, was going to go to Canada. I went to college and law school, and "volunteered" for service though OCS. I was turned down during a time where the military budget was cut back under smiling Jimmy. In the early 90's, DS, I again attempted to "volunteer" for OCS/JAG, but was turned down. Those are the facts, and I'm not a Weiner. I can't say they wouldn't have taken me as an enlisted man, in 1974, but I tend to doubt it because of the way military is structured. If you are over qualified for what they are looking for and there isn't a war going on, they don't usually recruit for educated people for boot camp to do 2, 3 or 4 year hitches on the clock. One of best friends, last 20 years, is a high school dropout, was a crack shot hunter who attempted to join on his 18th birthday in 1966. He was turned down because they said one of his eyes was "legally blind". He and his buddies all drove up together in one car, to volunteer, and 3 of his buddies were accepted and two did tours in Vietnam and one died over there.    Most of the people I knew that were drafted for Vietnam were obviously older, born in 1948 to 1952. Many burned draft cards and went to Canada with the Weather Underground, mentors for current generational leadership. I was one of the only 18 year olds in my school that came in and registered for the draft without a served summons/warrant.
    Posted by betterredthandead


    Noted.  You did the right thing, but weren't needed, which is understandable.  I didn't say you were a draft dodger, and my larger point was that most of those who served in Vietnam were volunteers--a larger percentage than volunteered for World War II.  I don't question your own experience among draft dodger friends, but would say that your generation, despite those who went to Canada, produced a lot of volunteers for a very difficult war. 

    Jimmy Carter cut the defense budget because he came into office after the Vietnam War had ended and at a time when he thought the threat wasn't that great.  Ike did exactly the same thing and cut the Army to the bone--see Maxwell Taylor's "The Uncertain Trumpet."  Kennedy, the Democrat, increased defense spending. 

    Believe it or not, the Army likes to enlist smart soldiers. 
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    My father and grandfather told me all about the military, which isn't the same as it used to be.

    Carter was wrong, and what Ike did after the World War of all time is not the same thing as what Carter did after the Vietnam political war that wasn't a war at all. Winning wasn't part of that conflict, it was about avoiding escalation with China and Russia and trying to nation build in a place that did not have enough people willing to support the nation that France and the United States were trying to build.

    My generation had strong characters, but my generation has been ruled by the ideals of the most decadent generation in American history. Poor morals, heavy debt and adopted utopian ideals that are the old visions of Marxists revolutionaries. We have such a "visionary" running the country now, since the last election in 2008. His tenets are a direct reflection of the ideals of the 60's hedonistic utopian generation. But to maintian power, he must attempt to try and disguise who is Leftist puppet masters are. He has adopted enough of the Bush national defense policies to try and retain power for his Leftist puppet masters.

    The 2012 national election will be decided by the small number of swing voters in the 50, not 59, United States. I suppose the DOC might have one or two swing voters, which isn't worth mentioning because that's not enough to overide the 90 plust percentage that vote for their 3 voting electors in the electoral college. DOC was never meant to become the permanent residence of people. It is one of the cesspools of modern federalism. 

     
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    Favorite Westerns?
    1. The Outlaw Josey Wales
    2. Unforgiven
    3. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
    4. The Gunfighter
    5. Tombstone
    6. They Died With Their Boots On
    7. The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean
    8. Hour of the Gun
    9. Silverado
    10. The Cowboys
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    11. The Horse Soldiers (more Civil War)
    12. Rio Bravo
    13. Wyatt Earp
    14. Long Riders
    15. Magnificent Seven
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    favorite actor in any western...
    1. Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven
    2. Val Kilmer, Tombstone
    3. Dean Martin, Rio Bravo
    4. Jason Robards, Hour of the Gun
    5. Gregory Peck, The Gunfighter

     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    politically speaking and I don't know how to go about this the right way without upsetting those who served in the armed forces...what makes John Wayne or Ronald Reagan less a man for not serving? My father and grandfather served, I didn't. Does that mean I'm less a man than they are? Are we only judged by what we did in the military or what we do in life? I'm just saying, ripping Wayne or anyone else for not serving is pretty weak.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    With that said, I have incredible respect for those that do, have served, including very proud of my late grandfather in WW2.
     
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    Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness

    In Response to Re: Off-day Ode to James Arness:
    11. The Horse Soldiers (more Civil War) 12. Rio Bravo 13. Wyatt Earp 14. Long Riders 15. Magnificent Seven
    Posted by dannycater


    If you like Westerns,check out the new "True Grit" movie coming out on DVD this week if you haven't seen it yet.I liked the original with John Wayne, so I thought this remake would be disappointing when I went to see it.I was happily wrong,it was really good.

    http://www.mania.com/full-true-grit-trailer_article_125594.html
     
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