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    The era of the francona is over.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    Until the aging Jangees actaully fall off the petal, I'll never take them lightly.

    After all, it took a 6 mile long meteor to knock off the last age of the dinosaurs, bus or no bus.
    :o)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    If Bobby can win half as many World Series championships as Tito did, I'll be happy.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    If we win any more rings, it won't be because of BV, just as the others were not Tito's wins. 

    They were team wins.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bucky-dent. Show bucky-dent's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    What makes you think bobby v is a strict manager. That isn't his style. I watched him in ny. He leads his own way which is personable with the players. His strategy is quirky but effective. He'll take chances most guys won't you soon see when they play every night. Yes the club house will be in order but the sox will have a more relaxed atmosphere. But remember he has never been in the al east and this may take some adjustment.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    I have heard many time that the RS won the world series in spite of Francona.  All I know is he did what many before him couldn't and that was come out of the WS a winner.......twice.  The RS needed a change and BV is basically the polar opposice of TF.  I hope the RS players decide to man up and win.....in spite of BV.
     
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    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    are people still crying about francona? good god..
     
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    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]If we win any more rings, it won't be because of BV, just as the others were not Tito's wins.  They were team wins.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Mostly.  There is a certain amount of timing and momentum changers that help, but this will depend largely on our rotation.  If we get a vintage Beckett like last year, it won't be because of BV, and if we get the 2010 or 2006 Beckett, that won't be because of Beckett either.
     
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    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : Curt Schilling Throws Beckett and Bobby V Under the Bus on Baseball Tonight "The big story yesterday was that Josh Beckett took a limo home from the game [from Bradenton], but the first week of spring training, Bobby V said that everybody has to take the bus." -- Curt Schilling throws Beckett and Bobby V under the bus on ESPN's Baseball Tonight
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    We don't know why or if BV allowed it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]The era of the happy-hours inside of the Red Sox Club house is over. Bobby Valentine is not Terry Francona. Bobby Valentine is a very strict manager that will impose respect in the club-house. Although Bobby Valentine will faces lighter competition from the Yanks this year... that doesn't mean that he will understimate the aging Yanks. Not at all. In my opinion, the Yanks still have a lot of unanswer questions this coming season... starting with Cashman's post-games dating affairs. And also the Yanks are heading north on a bus full of dinosaurs. I love Bobby Valentine. He is a warrior.. he is very hungry to win the WS for us this year. Trust me !
    Posted by SuperBenJI[/QUOTE] B I N G O  !!!!!!  Welcome back Smiley-benni & young son !!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SuperBenJI. Show SuperBenJI's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]If Bobby can win half as many World Series championships as Tito did, I'll be happy.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but you got to admit it.... Tito lost the control of the club house
    last year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]I have heard many time that the RS won the world series in spite of Francona.  All I know is he did what many before him couldn't and that was come out of the WS a winner.......twice.  The RS needed a change and BV is basically the polar opposice of TF.  I hope the RS players decide to man up and win.....in spite of BV.
    Posted by never1954[/QUOTE]
    He inherited a team that would have won with just about anyone managing. My problem with him was that they only got to one more WS under his leadership. IMO, they could have and should have been considered a dynasty and they wern't, they under achieved.
    Fans were so thrilled to finally win a WS that they gave him a free pass. I believe I posted the "IN SPITE OF" him very early in his tenure. We wouldn't even be talking about him if the Manny and Millar hadn't convinced him to give Roberts the steal sign.....complete rumor, but believable...Wink
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : Mostly.  There is a certain amount of timing and momentum changers that help, but this will depend largely on our rotation.  If we get a vintage Beckett like last year, it won't be because of BV, and if we get the 2010 or 2006 Beckett, that won't be because of Beckett either.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    If beckett is not responsible for his own performance, who is?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : He inherited a team that would have won with just about anyone managing. My problem with him was that they only got to one more WS under his leadership. IMO, they could have and should have been considered a dynasty and they wern't, they under achieved. Fans were so thrilled to finally win a WS that they gave him a free pass. I believe I posted the "IN SPITE OF" him very early in his tenure. We wouldn't even be talking about him if the Manny and Millar hadn't convinced him to give Roberts the steal sign.....complete rumor, but believable...
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
    Total rumor as Roberts stated he knew he was stealing when he left the bench. The 3 or 4 throws to first got him warmed up other wise he was not sure he'd have stolen 2nd.
    Dynasty you do realize there were in season changes in 2004 that helped and maybe were the reason why the RS won the 04 WS.
    BTW....From 03 to 04 only 2 SP were the same, 2 of the BP were the same and 3 of the 9 starters were different. NONE of the bench players were the same. So that means out of 25 players in who were on the team in April of 2003 only 10 remaind on the 04 WS team
    So please stop saying it was the same team and should have won with anyone managing.

    Your and others contention that it was the same team for the 9 years Francona was manager is a joke. As is the contention the 2003 and 2004 team were one in the same.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : Curt Schilling Throws Beckett and Bobby V Under the Bus on Baseball Tonight "The big story yesterday was that Josh Beckett took a limo home from the game [from Bradenton], but the first week of spring training, Bobby V said that everybody has to take the bus." -- Curt Schilling throws Beckett and Bobby V under the bus on ESPN's Baseball Tonight
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    Yup, i saw that one too, Zac.

    Curt has had me scratching my head on more than one occasion.

    Last night was one of those occasions.

    Leaving unanswered the question: How can you take a bus that you have just been thrown under?

    But I digress...


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]are people still crying about francona? good god..
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    and people are still bashing francona? good god..
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : He inherited a team that would have won with just about anyone managing. My problem with him was that they only got to one more WS under his leadership. IMO, they could have and should have been considered a dynasty and they wern't, they under achieved. Fans were so thrilled to finally win a WS that they gave him a free pass. I believe I posted the "IN SPITE OF" him very early in his tenure. We wouldn't even be talking about him if the Manny and Millar hadn't convinced him to give Roberts the steal sign.....complete rumor, but believable...
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
    Hey '41 ... hope you've had a good offseason.

    Look at the two teams that won the championships in '04 and '07 ... different starters at first, second, short, third, right and center. Manny and Tek were the only constants (and Papi at DH). Schilling was the only starting pitcher on both teams (not counting Wakefield) and we had a different closer.

    Conversely, look at the Yankee teams from 1996-2000, when they won four championships in five years. Half of their every-day lineup was the same. So was their ace (Pettitte) and closer (Rivera).

    Dynasties in professional sports happen when there's little or nor shakeup in the lineup. Not when you have to rebuild your team.

    PS--And come on, enough with the "Millar convinced Tito to have Roberts steal" nonsense. If the plan wasn't to have him steal, why the hell would have they have brought in a pinch runner in the first place?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : I agree, but you got to admit it.... Tito lost the control of the club house last year.
    Posted by SuperBenJI[/QUOTE]
    Absolutely no argument there.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : Hey '41 ... hope you've had a good offseason. Look at the two teams that won the championships in '04 and '07 ... different starters at first, second, short, third, right and center. Manny and Tek were the only constants (and Papi at DH). Schilling was the only starting pitcher on both teams (not counting Wakefield) and we had a different closer. Conversely, look at the Yankee teams from 1996-2000, when they won four championships in five years. Half of their every-day lineup was the same. So was their ace (Pettitte) and closer (Rivera). Dynasties in professional sports happen when there's little or nor shakeup in the lineup. Not when you have to rebuild your team. PS--And come on, enough with the "Millar convinced Tito to have Roberts steal" nonsense. If the plan wasn't to have him steal, why the hell would have they have brought in a pinch runner in the first place?
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Sorry lloyd, but Pettitte was never considered the "ace" and Rivera was not the closer in '96.

     
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    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : Sorry lloyd, but Pettitte was never considered the "ace" and Rivera was not the closer in '96.
    Posted by TBINFL[/QUOTE]
    "Ace" is a term thrown around loosely, I'll grant you. But in 1996, Pettitte won an AL-leading 21 games (nine more than any other starter for NYY). In 2000, he won 19 (six more than Clemens). So if not "ace," then "best starting pitcher." Not to mention his money reputation in the postseason.

    As for Rivera, yep, I booted the slow roller on that one. Not the closer in '96. Though he was for the three in a row from 1998-2000.

    By the way ... Babe, is this you? If so, I defer to your Yankee knowledge.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : "Ace" is a term thrown around loosely, I'll grant you. But in 1996, Pettitte won an AL-leading 21 games (nine more than any other starter for NYY). In 2000, he won 19 (six more than Clemens). So if not "ace," then "best starting pitcher." Not to mention his money reputation in the postseason. As for Rivera, yep, I booted the slow roller on that one. Not the closer in '96. Though he was for the three in a row from 1998-2000. By the way ... Babe, is this you? If so, I defer to your Yankee knowledge.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Yup lloyd, it's me. How's it going?

    Pettitte was usually the number 2 starter on those teams, although I may agree that he was the best starter for some seasons.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: don't make mistakes /> Valentine isn't Francona : Yup lloyd, it's me. How's it going? Pettitte was usually the number 2 starter on those teams, although I may agree that he was the best starter for some seasons.
    Posted by TBINFL[/QUOTE]
    Going well ... waiting for the season start.
    So why is your avatar a picture of Terry Francona in front of Lou Gherig's HOF plaque?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona

    In Response to don't make mistakes> Valentine isn't Francona:
    [QUOTE]The era of the happy-hours inside of the Red Sox Club house is over. Bobby Valentine is not Terry Francona. Bobby Valentine is a very strict manager that will impose respect in the club-house. Although Bobby Valentine will faces lighter competition from the Yanks this year... that doesn't mean that he will understimate the aging Yanks. Not at all. In my opinion, the Yanks still have a lot of unanswer questions this coming season... starting with Cashman's post-games dating affairs. And also the Yanks are heading north on a bus full of dinosaurs. I love Bobby Valentine. He is a warrior.. he is very hungry to win the WS for us this year. Trust me !
    Posted by SuperBenJI[/QUOTE]

    " Although Bobby Valentine will faces lighter competition from the Yanks this year. "

    Really?  Considering their pen is just as good, meaning very good, the rotation has been up graded, and the offense is about as good as any in baseball, .. including the RS, .. just how does that translate into; "..lighter competition"?  Also, on the one hand you state the Yankees this season are "lighter competition" yet you also state the Valentine won't ".. underestimate the aging Yanks ..".  Which is it?

    Also, ..".. aging Yanks.."?  When will the Nation stop counting on the "old brittle" Yankees to collapse?  Is there no scenario that actually has the RS excelling or are they all dependant on the Yankees failing?  Surely there must be a more substantive less deluded strategy available.  

    Last year the RS were the consensus favorite to win the AL East and go to the WS to faces the Phillies and look how that turned out.  This year the conventional wisdom has the Yankees winning the AL East and the RS fighting for a WC spot.  So what, .. all that really means is the games still need to be played.  

    Also, trust me, .. all this ".. warrior, .. hungry.."  stuff doesn't mean a thing.  I think Valentine is right in that Bard needs to return to the pen and Iglesias should be given the SS job.  And, if you like an aggressive manager, .. with a more NL style, .. then Valentine is your man.  But, he has to be careful to mold the strtegy to the players ability.  And, it should be noted that the very same qualities that can ignite a fire under a team has the potential to set it a blaze too.
     
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