Re: Old school stats vs. new school stats
posted at 1/27/2013 1:42 PM EST
In response to Beantowne's comment:
In response to moonslav59's comment:
In response to tom-uk's comment:
no problem with the he has worse range stuff
but not buying the worse defensively stuff
Zac, You are a fair poster IMO, but I think you are missing something on this one.
Jeter is sure handed, he comes straight in well and he makes plays in the outfield well. Even with all those positives he has been a terrible liability in the field for a long time because he allows a large amount of hits b/c of his poor range.
The same numbers that show he makes way less plays than he should, show that Cano made more than Pedroia last year.
2012 Range Factor, Total Chances, Games:
Ped 4.59 625 139
Cano 4.82 726 154
Aviles 4.68 591 128
Jeter 3.76 506 135
ESPN DWAR had him as the worst fielding player at SS or 3B in MLB.
RF/9 is a useful tool, but should never be used in isolation (not saying you were doing this here UK.)
UZR/150 at 2B in 2012:
1) Ellis 16.1
2) Barney 15.1
3) Pedey 10.8
6) Cano 9.2
UZR/150 places Pedey in front of Cano, so one might assume that Cano had more balls hit to his zone than Pedey and that is part of the reason he made more plays. However, if we look closer at the fangraphs numbers, this appears to not be the case...
RangeR factor (the range portion of UZR):
1) Infante 11.9
3) Cano 7.0
11) Pedey 2.0
Based on these numbers, I will agree that Cano had much better range than Pedey last year. I'm actually a bit surprised at Pedey's 11th place finish, since by my observations, I'd rank him near the top in range. This is a prime example on why one can not always trust one's own observations as compared to other players one barely sees play.
In Pedey's defense, UZR is recommended to be used in larger sample sizes of about 3 or more years. If we look at the 3 year RngR avg (2010-2012):
1) Phillips 20.2
4) Pedey 17.4
14) Cano -6.0
Jeter has a terrible RF/9, UZR/150, RngR factors and just about every other defensive stat or metric, except for Fldg%- the "old traditional stat" of choice.
how good is Jeter turning the double play?
how good is Jeter at feeding the ball to second...
how good is Jeter at setting up for the cut, then making a strong an accurate throw..to the base...
if you evaluate his arm which of the throws from SS can't he make...
how good is Jeter's ability to drop step and make a play on the shallow fly ball or pop ups.
how often do you ever see him out of position on double cuts...
how good is he on charging the ball and making an accurate throw to first On the run...
how adept is he at receiving the throw and apply the tag at second...
how often is he out of position based on the scouting reports...
how often does he get a bad read off the bat.
all of these are tangibles of playing the SS position. All of them are part of what makes for a good defensive player...range is certainly important and I don't think anyone one would underscore its importance, but it's not IMHO what separates the best from the least...it's merely a statistical measure that is greatly influenced by a players athleticism...Cano is far more athletic then Pedrioa And as such has the physical ability to get to more balls. Coco Crisp is more athletic than Frank Howard..
My greater point is that what comprises a good defensive player is more then there ability to get to more balls...
You said it better than I could; but, you're good at this; much better than me.